Texas Republicans Debate Immigration, as "The Future of the Party Hangs in the Balance"

Categories: Immigration

Villalba.jpg
Stanton Stephens
Jason Villalba
"Unless we adjust, we as a party are at tremendous peril of vanishing forever." This was Jason Villalba, the state rep from Dallas, over the phone today, imagining the doomsday scenario that could break his Republican party, if far-right members don't shuffle toward the center aisle on immigration.

Villalba recently completed his freshman term in the Legislature and is quickly becoming an outspoken proponent of statewide immigration reform. The issue, and Villalba, took center stage at this week's party convention in Forth Worth.

Their place at the center of things is a byproduct of rapidly shifting demographics in Texas, and the critical need for state Republicans to court Hispanic voters. According to a 2013 Gallup poll Hispanics overwhelmingly vote Democrat, and are expected to become the majority ethnicity in Texas within the next 25 years.

As part of an immigration platform debate yesterday, GOP members dived back into the Texas Solution initiative, a controversial plan added to the party platform in 2012. It calls for tighter border security and a guest-worker program to allow undocumented immigrants to legally live and work in the United States, without a pathway to citizenship. Updating and maintaining the 2012 Texas Solution, Villalba insists, is the only way to gain Hispanic voters and work toward reform.

Republicans have predictably criticized the Texas Solution as too lenient, saying it offers an amnesty incentive to undocumented immigrants by allowing them to legally work in the United States as guests. As part of the proposed platform shift, Texas GOP officials have suggested changing the current guest-workers policy to grant these workers a temporary visa. "We believe in a thoughtful approach to immigration that includes guest workers. But if we yank that away a few years later -- what does that say to Hispanics across the state?"

Immigration is expected to be a key point of debate at the Texas GOP convention this week, and attendees have not disappointed. Opponents are calling for the total elimination of the Texas Solution -- some even calling for the immediate mass deportation of every undocumented immigrant.

Deporting an estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants and throwing out Texas Solution, Villalba told Unfair Park, is not just logically and logistically impossible. "These issues can be perceived by the Hispanic community as alienating, divisive, and offensive," he said.

Villalba has publicly decried the way many conservatives treat undocumented immigrants, in both rhetoric and policy. In an opinion piece published this morning, Villalba admonished those who spoke out against Texas Solution last night, explaining the importance of the Hispanic vote and the need for softer rhetoric.

Illegal immigration is a serious problem with very real adverse repercussions for all Texans. I also acknowledge and accept that we as Texans work hard and play by the rules every day and that it just feels wrong and unfair that a group of people who have broken the law have taken advantage of our generosity and American largesse. But I plead with you, we have to be thoughtful here and we must look for common-sense solutions today rather than reversing course midstream. We have to find a compromise that works for all Republicans. If we remove The Texas Solution, we will put the Party in great peril. The Future of the Republican Party hangs in the balance. Stand with me and keep The Texas Solution.

For now, they have. A temporary platform committee voted to keep a version of it this week. But the debate continues. today and tomorrow.

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238 comments
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paulpsycho78
paulpsycho78

Just like the Nazi propaganda machine spear headed by Joseph Goebbels got the German population to sit idly by while their hebrew brethren were fed to the ovens, the Corporatists in control of this nation would have you believe that the Mexican's are the reason why your not doing as well as your parents.

paulpsycho78
paulpsycho78

Did you know that companies like Wal Mart actually lobby politicians to NOT lower Food Stamp handouts?  Why because they get so much of their profits from food stamps they would be in trouble if they were eliminated or reduced.  Also when you hire more folks at 20-30 hours a week instead of full time folks, those PT people will inevitable apply for food stamps, which are then spent at, you guessed it, Wal Mart.  Wal Mart is the embodiment of capitalism, in all it's best and worst confluences.

paulpsycho78
paulpsycho78

The majority of illegals get paid by rich folks, not the 30-50k a year angry old whites that littler this thread, where is the hate for the rich folks that mainly hire these illegals.  They would not come here if there wasn't work for them.

paulpsycho78
paulpsycho78

NOT one word in this thread about how big corporations like wal mart, kroger etc. actively campaign against the reduction of food stamps, because it constitutes such a large percentage of their profits..Plus when you pay so many folks the minimum and keep them at 20-30 hours a week, they are sure to apply for and be granted food stamps, which they then turn around and spend at the wal mart or kroger etc. That they work at.  Look no further all you Xtians Wal Mart is the symbolic head of your anti-christ.

davej.francis
davej.francis

President Obama and his minions by opening their BIG mouths are complicating illegal immigration enforcement with problems for the military as well; those different issues that should remain away from the mainstream press, the public and the populations of foreign countries. Broadcasting to the world, that politicians are considering Amnesty for people who have already broken the law, by entering America without registration is outrageous. It shows utmost incompetence or a conspiracy to wreak havoc on millions of jobless Americans. I have always said that it is a CONSPIRACY, not to uphold the enforcement of our borders, so that illegal aliens can slip past our unjustifiable open borders. THE MAJORITY OF THE LOWER CLASSES CANNOT SEE THROUGH THIS CONSPIRACY BY THE GOP AND DEMOCRATS, NOT REALIZING THEIR JOBS OR ON THE LINE? Taxpayers are already paying financially to settle foreigners, who Vice President Joe Biden stated, “that they are already Americans” What blatant rot? It’s just utmost insanity to keep crowing about Immigration Reform or the possibility of a Path to Citizenship?

 I think it’s hard for most prudent citizens to believe, that this bloated government had overstepped the law in allowing 36,000 criminals back into our society. Additionally the voices in Congress have hollered loud enough, to preview large numbers of children from South American countries pushed ahead by their parents, knowing full well that our present President will not send them back whence they came? It’s yet another way for parents to get a toe hold around our laws, consistent with chain migration. That the U.S. taxpayer will perform for them, in that they can anticipate EBT food stamps, education for their children, Obamacare or Medicaid and low income housing. Then there are 60.000 children being allowed through our border, with more to come that we must keep them safe. Not forgetting the 46 % of tourists, who seem innocent enough until they arrive at the emergency room of hospitals ready to give birth? Sorry but only people issued a social security number should have priority, not foreign nationals that Obama has welcomed through the back door. How simple it would be, to issue every legitimate individual with a digital national ID card, which cannot be counterfeited. The cost of 2 billion dollars is meager to what is spent on public assistance. We just gave that amount of money to a country, that doesn’t even like us; compliments again of the Obama government?

To confound it all, the White House tells our enemies the date we are departing from Afghanistan. TheUS plan to bring home almost all American soldiers from Afghanistanby the end of 2016. A steady stream of lies has poured forth from his mouth, one after the other. Our Constitution has repeatedly been violated. Congress has been bypassed, ignored, run over, and browbeaten by the man and his henchman in the different government agencies. Obama has shoved this disastrous and unaffordable Obamacare on Americans and it has already cost our neighbors, friends and loved ones their jobs, even their lives. The disgrace that has been brought upon our great nation is at times too much to bear. Obama has demonstrated complete disregard for the law and We the People throughout his presidency. And now he has shown the same utter disregard and disrespect for our military. We cannot allow him to destroy these fine people who have served our country with such honor and respect.

Be assertive and don’t vote for a Republican, don’t vote for a Democrat or worse, but vote for a specific issue, such as a real two layer fence at the U.S./Mexican border and troops to support the Border Patrol officers. There have two many inconsistencies from both parties.  Join the mega-voices in the National Tea Party to Abolish the IRS that has become an ugly instrument of this administration; as we need a fair or Consumer tax that nobody can escape paying, specifically Unions, GOP special interests and corporate cronyism. Electing fresh Politicians who will vote for ending the massive spending spree and reduce the size of the government? These are just a few issues will save hundreds of billions of dollars, in the long run TRILLIONS.

Myrna.Minkoff-Katz
Myrna.Minkoff-Katz topcommenter

Republican Regressives' idea of "reaching out":


"The Texas Republican Party now endorses so-called "reparative therapy" for gays, under a new platform given final approval at its annual convention Saturday.

The new anti-gay language never came up for debate before roughly 7,000 delegates ratified a Texas GOP platform that tea party groups succeeded in pushing further to the right, including winning a harder line on immigration." ---NBC News

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Myrna.Minkoff-Katz
Myrna.Minkoff-Katz topcommenter

LIsten not to the duddskis of the world.  Listen to sober voices like this one:


"The Republican party must return to its Big Tent roots.  It must reach out to Hispanics, African Americans, young people, and women.  A conservative Catholic like myself can work inside the same tent as my Log Cabin Republican friends. The GOP will not be successful unless it actively reaches out to groups that have recently deserted it.  It must show independents and disaffected Democrats that the Republican party is open for business, ready to spread its wings to attract greater support. All the recent polls say immigration reform is popular. A survey by the Partnership for a New American Economy shows that around 70 percent of Republicans who identify with the tea-party movement support immigration reform. They back the idea of undocumented immigrants obtaining either legalization or a path to citizenship. And 76 percent of surveyed Republicans support improved border security and letting immigrants remain in the U.S., while 69 percent say they would also support a candidate who backs broad reform."  ---Larry Kudlow, National Review

bvckvs
bvckvs topcommenter

re:  "But the debate continues."

It's really a stretch to call the tantrums and racist rants by Republicans as a "debate".

JFPO
JFPO

Funny how you blame these issues only on "this" administration. But the Tea Party is not at all racist. Powerful conservatives (not Bubbas like you) love illegal immigration (despite their rhetoric) because it keeps overall wages down.

dingo
dingo

@Myrna.Minkoff-Katz 

Is the restriction on banning reparative therapy for those that voluntarily seek it out an actual endorsement of reparative therapy?

A 'restriction on laws prohibiting' something would be the more accurate assessment when compared to an 'endorsement' of something. 

But accuracy, clarity, sincerity, virtue, honor, etc. has never been a priority for anyone that regularly regurgitates the lowest common denominator talking points in an effort to fabricate cogency in a debate.

dingo
dingo

@Myrna.Minkoff-Katz 

Any sober voice cannot ignore the open invitation to tens of thousands of illegal immigrants to cross the Mexican border that this administration has extended.

Any sober voice cannot ignore the increasingly devastating social burden and wealth inequality that occurs as the result of an increasing influx of unskilled workers.


Any sober voice would address those two very significant concerns unless they are attempting to whitewash the immigration issue as part of a means toward an end.


TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@Myrna

The Republican Party does reach out to Latinos and blacks.

Unfortunately, what we get are Uncle Toms, race traitors, sellouts and such.

Republicans have a problem attracting liberal democrats, because republicans refuse to adopt a liberal democrat platform, which, as any liberal democrat will tell you, is what everyone wants.

The "sober voice" you are citing has been discredited by the left for years, BTW, and yes, conservatives champion citizenship over illegality, but conservatives also favor a policy which will stem, not increase, the flow of illegals and the resulting unilateral serial amnesty, which essentially means open borders for one particular group to the exclusion of all others.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@bvckvs

You should be reading the NYT and debating amongst yourself just how Obama is going to get away from his VA scandal, and this:

---From the initial briefings given to senior military and civilian officials in the past week, Sergeant Bergdahl, 28, in some ways seems healthier than expected. He suffers from skin and gum disorders typical of poor hygiene and exposure, but otherwise is physically sound, one official said. He weighs about 160 pounds on a 5-foot-9 frame, and is sleeping about seven hours a night.

He shows few if any signs of the malnourishment and other ailments that Obama administration officials said he was suffering when they saw a video of him that the Taliban made in December and released a month later — a video so alarming, American officials have said, it made his release an urgent priority.---

Another video.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@dingo 

A 'restriction on laws prohibiting' something would be the more accurate assessment when compared to an 'endorsement' of something

the TX Republican Party Platform language includes both...

The Texas Republicans' measure states that "We recognize the legitimacy and efficacy of counseling, which offers reparative therapy and treatment for those patients seeking healing and wholeness from their homosexual lifestyle. No laws or executive orders shall be imposed to limit or restrict access to this type of therapy."

Just another example of the Texas Republican's consistent efforts to impose their beliefs on others, and to ignore science in favor of those beliefs.

Reparative Therapy is quackey at its highest. The Texas Republican Party is endorsing the activities of people who are nothing more than a classic snake oil salesman hawking magical potions.

Myrna.Minkoff-Katz
Myrna.Minkoff-Katz topcommenter

Another good one out of the mouth of Queen Loon, Cathie Adams:


“Scientists are on the verge of cloning humans, injecting them with diseases and studying them, then killing them.” ---Cathie Adams, explaining why she is against cancer research.
 

And this gem:

"Obama is using the 'green agenda' as cover to implement Marxism in America; talk of 'sustainable development' or 'social justice' are just code words for Marxism."

Myrna.Minkoff-Katz
Myrna.Minkoff-Katz topcommenter

Cathie Adams, president of the conservative Texas Eagle Forum, spearheaded the endorsement.  
“When a culture descends to a point where homosexuality is openly accepted as a normal behavior, then a society is well on its way to demise." ---Cathie Adams

lecterman
lecterman

@dingo @Myrna.Minkoff-Katz I see people like you complain about the influx of undocumented immigrants.  Oddly, I do not see you complain about the low cost of construction in Texas to which many of them contribute.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki 

It is baffling, to the point of incredible, that the right wing has decided to ignore the words "I will never leave a fallen comrade" of The Soldier's Creed in its manic goal of attacking Obama.

These are the same people who speak of protecting our nation's traditions and cloaking themselves in our nation's flag to claim their patriotism...until of course they can toss them aside in their fervor to attack Obama.

just pitiful to observe these right wing zealots. they aren't patriots, they show themselves to be self serving narcissists.

Myrna.Minkoff-Katz
Myrna.Minkoff-Katz topcommenter

@TheDuddSki This article is about immigration; it's not about the Republican Regressives' scandal machine and its psychopathological hatred of Obama.

JFPO
JFPO

@TheRuddSki The corporate masters will let these Bubbas shout all they want, but it will make no difference. Immigration is really a federal issue, as Arizona is learning.

dingo
dingo

@mavdog @dingo 

'Just another example of the Texas Republican's consistent efforts to impose their beliefs on others, and to ignore science in favor of those beliefs.'


From wikipedia (my emphasis in italics):


The American Counseling Association has stated that they do not condone any training to educate and prepare a counselor to practice conversion therapy. Counselors who do offer training in conversion therapy must inform students that the techniques are unproven. They suggest counselors do not refer clients to a conversion therapist or to proceed cautiously once they know the counselor fully informs clients of the unproven nature of the treatment and the potential risks. However, "it is of primary importance to respect a client's autonomy to request a referral for a service not offered by a counselor." A counselor performing conversion therapy must provide complete information about the treatment, offer referrals to gay-affirmative counselors, discuss the right of clients, understand the client's request within a cultural context, and only practice within their level of expertise.[13]

NARTH states that refusing to offer therapy aimed at change to a client who requests it, and telling him that his only option is to claim a gay identity, could also be considered ethically unacceptable.[114]

-----

The ACA (pardon me for respecting their opinion over your own opinion) recognizes the unacceptable nature of restricting the requested, unproven therapy from one seeking that therapy.


Or in your words, the unacceptable nature of imposing your own beliefs on an individual seeking the controversial therapy.

----

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

It looks like they are seeking to guarantee rights, not limit them.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@lecterman

I will complain. If builders are breaking the law to build my house 15% cheaper, while screwing my fellow Americanos by artificially depressing their wages, I'd turn him in and get a reward.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

There have been some extreme statements from both sides of the issue. I'm sure some have suggested he be left there, not me. I would assume that the effort to get him back was ongoing from the minute he went Walkabout.

Unexpectedly, the Taliban rejoiced at the deal, a lot of Americans haven't, and on the heels of the VA debacle, this just might become a bit problematic for the administration.

Which means he has to double down. Expect another big, questionably logical or legal or ethical move, ASAP.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@Myrna

??

Are you replying to a comment I haven't made, or my reply to Bucky?

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

JFPO

Immigration, like education, health care, eliminating legal businesses, etc is increasingly an Obama administration thing.

He is really good at working around the difficulties that the founders built into the system. Look at how he and Gates took over American education in an incredibly short time, working outside the system, how he deftly bypasses Congress and the traditional constraints knowing full well no-one can stop him.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@dingo

Mavdog needn't worry, if Obama deems the therapy wrong in his eyes, he will apply the Choke Point counter-therapy, shut 'em down.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@dingo 

your mistake is the label "your own beliefs". it is the conclusions of healthcare, and specifically mental health professionals including the American Counseling Association. from their endorsed publication:

However, such efforts [reparative counseling] have serious potential to harm young people because they present the view that the sexual orientation of lesbian, gay, and bisexual youth is a mental illness or disorder, and they often frame the inability to change one’s sexual orientation as a personal and moral failure.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki 

"guarantee rights"??? what, the rights of quack pseudo-psychiatrist charlatans to steal money from people who aren't aware they are being taken advantage of?

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki 

"extreme statements from both sides"?

you mean like what you have been posting?

look, you either are supportive of bringing this soldier back or you aren't. those who are throwing our Pres under the bus for bringing him home should ask themselves why...

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki 

I know that I can speak for others who are on this board to say that we are shocked- SHOCKED- to see you interject Obama into the discussion of the Texas Republican Party's platform and the harm of reparative therapy, in spite of the fact that Obama has zero linkage.

you rarely fail to meet our expectations.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

You may disagree with the aims of the therapy, but that's no reason to oppose a platform endorsing a person's right to choose that that therapy.

It's a negative rights thing.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

I clearly stated my position. Try reading it.

I clearly stated that the administration is facing problems, and why. Try responding to those points.

Your repetitive non-response, I consider extreme.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

Zero linkage?

Through his strategies, of which Choke Point is just one, Obama has complete linkage to anything and everything in this country he sets his sights on.

If he doesn't like this therapy, it's gone. Poof.

If he wants to unilaterally and fundamentally change public education outside the democratic process, he does.

Don't you wish you had that kind of power?

If you did, no doubt this board would likely have been ideologically purged long ago. But you don't.

Bummer.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki 

so you advocate zero oversight of the medicinal world?

anybody can formulate any concoction they wish to make and make any claims on the abilities of that product, regardless of any evidence it works? you say allow therapy that does harm in the name of "right to practice"?

that is what "reparitive therapy" or "conversion therapy is". no accredited organization gives it a green light, in fact both the  Psychiatric Assoc and the Psychological Assoc. are on record saying it can do major harm.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki 

oh, I've read your "position".

while you make the claim "I'm sure some have suggested he be left there, not me.", you OTOH characterize the deal to bring Bergdahl home as a "scandal". the "why" of "facing problems".

not too difficult to see thru the veneer of your game. you realize it is not possible to throw Obama under the bus and also adhere to tradition, so you play on both sides.

in case you can't tell, that is "responding to those points" you made...

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki

Thanks! I couldn't have composed a better parody of your obsessiveness for Obama if I tried.

Appreciate the humor, gave me a good laugh.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

so you advocate zero oversight of the medicinal world?

I'm not sure who uses more strawmen, you or Obama.

The platform states No laws... imposed to limit or restrict access..

It's simply pro-choice. That they endorse the procedure and you condemn it doesn't really matter. Don't like the therapy, don't take it.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

so you advocate zero oversight of the medicinal world?

I'm not sure who uses more strawmen and false choices - you or Obama.

The platform states No laws... imposed to limit or restrict access..

It's simply pro-choice. That they endorse the procedure and you condemn it doesn't really matter. Don't like the therapy, don't take it.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

oh, I've read your "position".

Ok, that you asked the same question twice threw me off.

... while you make the claim "I'm sure some have suggested he be left there, not me.", you OTOH characterize the deal to bring Bergdahl home as a "scandal". the "why" of "facing problems".

I didn't use the word "scandal".

There certainly is controversy over the nature, timing, claims, precedence, method, results, etc. I certainly believe there should be, it's to quite a few people A Big Fucking Deal.

not too difficult to see thru the veneer of your game. you realize it is not possible to throw Obama under the bus and also adhere to tradition, so you play on both sides.

LOL. What the hell does "not possible to throw a Obama under the bus" even mean?

I agree with some "sides", and disagree with others. So far, I agreed with you and got an angry response regardless, apparently because I do not necessarily agree with the totality of the strict party line - which, as usual, changes day-to-day anyway.

I suppose that to you is extremism. That's part of your problem.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

Amazing how you can deconstruct arguments by simply not addressing them at all.

Simple question, do you approve of the Choke Point method of shutting down legal businesses?

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki 

yes, the Texas Republican Platform calls for "no laws" restricting those who hoist a therapy labeled "dangerous" by medical professionals. these are the professionals who "condemn" it. the platform is not "simply pro-choice" (i see what you did BTW), it is advocating and supporting dangerous, disproven medical practices.

coming to the next Texas Republican Platform: a statement endorsing the use of snake oil as a cancer preventive and cure!

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki 

formatting can be just sooo difficult, after all not everyone is a developer of a webpage...

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki 

you (and Issa) have no evidence that a single "legal business" has been "shut down".

As was told Congress and the financial industry, the program is a tool to ensure compliance with financial regs and to uncover businesses that are possibly using the system in the wrong manner.

do you feel that financial review shouldn't be done? odd anyone would advocate that position.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

I'm not going to argue the effectiveness of the procedure or therapy, I'm arguing that if you want the procedure, the government shouldn't bar you from a voluntary, personal choice.

Medicare now covers voluntary castration, doctors also describe that as dangerous and problematic, but it's the law of the land, you can do it, at government expense.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

Failure to close a tag is a horrible thing, but not as bad as wasting space to point out the obvious, that a tag was not closed.

After all, not everyone is as competent as those who built the Obamacare website.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki 

I'm not going to argue the effectiveness of the procedure or therapy, I'm arguing that if you want the procedure, the government shouldn't bar you from a voluntary, personal choice.

so you DO take the position that the government has no role in oversight of the medicinal applications given. so much for the claim of the role of governement is a "strawman". you actually advocate a laissez faire appproach to the industry. absurd to say the least, there IS a role for the state, and it IS important.

Medicare now covers voluntary castration, doctors also describe that as dangerous and problematic, but it's the law of the land, you can do it, at government expense.

now THAT is a strawman, comparing a prostate cancer victim's search for potential help by undergoing castration to disproven reparative therapy.

good grief.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

It's sex re-assignment surgery, nothing to do with prostate. I'm not even arguing against sex-reassignment surgery, as long as it's voluntary.

It's not as risky a gambit as therapy, true, but even so, I don't think the science is settled in regards to the value of either approach.

I'm pro-choice, not a hypocrite.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki 

you are referring to sex reassignment surgery as voluntary castration? LMAO! very funny.

yes, "the science is settled" as far as reparitive therapy.

I'm pro-choice, not a hypocrite

so you endorse the potential Republican Party Platform endorsement of snake oil as a cancer preventive and cure?

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

Yes, I do, I may not believe in the effectiveness of any particular procedure, but I am, by default, pro-choice

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki 

that's interesting. not many people would admit to supporting charlatans and snake oil salesmen.

accordingly, you must have the opinion that Bernie Madoff shouldn't be prosecuted for his actions, after all his investors had a choice to not give him their money...

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

I am against taxpayer-funded sex change surgery for Bernie Madoff, simply because so many investors would perform the procedure gratis.

But, he has the same rights as any man to voluntarily lop it off, I'm not sure anything has changed other than the funding issue.

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