There's a Schism in Texas' Open Carry Movement

Categories: Guns

OpenCarryTexas.jpg
Open Carry Texas
There comes a time in any sustained protest movement when internal disagreements over tactics, over what ends justify what means, over the acceptability of compromise in the name of progress, reach a boiling point. It happened during the civil rights struggle of the 1960s. It happened in the during the fight to end apartheid in South Africa. Now, it's happened in the equally weighty struggle of the oppressed Texas gun lovers to openly carry their firearms.

The Associated Press, following up on a KRLD report, reported on Thursday of a schism between Open Carry Texas and their North Texas-based offshoot, Open Carry Tarrant County.

The proximate cause of the split is rather legalistic. Open Carry Texas' C.J. Grisham, who launched the group after being hassled by police while carrying his rifle outside Temple, Texas last year, said his group's bylaws say protestors should always notify police before staging an open-carry demonstration.

The Tarrant County group, led by activist and Mansfield ISD school board candidate Kory Watkins, doesn't do that.

See also: Arlington Cops, Open-Carry Advocates Go Toe-to-Toe Over the Constitution

"We don't ask for permission or call anybody," he told the Associated Press. "We're trying to make this as normal as possible."

Sometimes, that approach leads to misunderstandings. Like when Open Carry Tarrant County activists visited a Fort Worth Jack in the Box, prompting the arrival of a phalanx of alarmed cops.

OCT, the statewide group, disputes police and media accounts of the incident in which frightened employees locked themselves in a freezer and called police (the manager certainly doesn't look frightened) but Grisham told KRLD that it was "probably the [culmination]" of a disagreement that began with Tarrant County activists' ongoing dispute with the city of Arlington.

OCT is now de-emphasizing the Jack in the Box encounter.

"The split with OCTC was mutual and occurred prior to the Jack in the Box incident," the group wrote this morning on its Facebook page. "Members are welcome to join both OCT ad OCTC. OCT also wishes OCTC the best, we are not competitors."

Send your story tips to the author, Eric Nicholson.

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131 comments
TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

It's odd that people would get upset about these guys pushing constitutional rights, while our President has claimed sole authority to kill any American he chooses, without trial.

Maybe the President will start with guys like the ones pictured above (not the hostage manager of course) - after they've been thoroughly audited by the IRS of course.

ynotryme
ynotryme

anyone who feels a need to carry a weapon  is very insecure which is a mental health issue. anyone with a mental health issue shouldn't be allowed guns


TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

LOL. One 911 call - not from JitB, from a passerby.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JRaYd7rxfqg

"Men with what looks like assault rifles and cameras" (Oh, and cameras with long lenses are "assault cameras" probably)

What is an "assault rifle" anyway? A term invented by the same folks who call illegal border-jumping "immigration"? And why no response from the FWPD regarding the"employees in the freezer" claim?

chcknhawk
chcknhawk

I'm the president of open carry texas and this entire story is false.

ozma207
ozma207

From Merriam-Webster:


Full Definition of FETISH

1a :  an object (as a small stone carving of an animal) believed to have magical power to protect or aid its owner; broadly :  a material object regarded with superstitious or extravagant trust or reverence


That's these guys and their rifles. Firearms are not magic. You're not making the world safer although you like to imagine you are. The United States overall and Texas in particular has had a lowering violent and property crime rate for decades without any help from people trying to recreate some imaginary prior time. In case anyone's forgotten, the OK Corral gunfight was predicated on an effort to enforce Tombstone's Ordinance No. 9, entitled "To Provide against Carrying of Deadly Weapons".

RTGolden1
RTGolden1 topcommenter

What's ironic is the least 'threatening' of the pictured rifles, the one on the right, most likely has more muzzle velocity, greater range, more knock-down power and higher overall accuracy than the other two.  In short, by straight technical terms the rifle on the right is the most lethal of the bunch, and it's the one the gun-control lobby 'fears' the least.

Aside from the Constitutionality issues, the idiocy of proposed gun control laws is a more effective counter campaign than any Open Carry movement could ever be.  I don't know how supportive I would be of OCT or OCTC's cause, I'd be more inclined to make concealed carry a more streamlined process and more widely available to qualified, law-abiding citizens.  However, they are simply exercising a Constitutional Right, in accordance with state and local laws.  What kind of idiot can argue against that?  Before you answer, change the right with the First Amendment and see if  your argument still holds.

DOisDUMDUM
DOisDUMDUM

"Open Carry Texas' C.J. Grisham, who launched the group after being hassled by police while carrying his rifle outside Temple"


You consider being arrested, fined $2000 and having property seized merely being hassled?


Only because you disagree with him, right?

mrsachmo
mrsachmo

if you have something to say, make sure you say it loud. that's always the best policy.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

While fast-food employees were terrorized by legal gun owners in Red-state, gun-nut Texas, 15 people were shot over 12 hours in uber-Blue gun-controlled Chicago.

Clearly, these open-carry people are the real threat.

mark_unt
mark_unt

What a bunch of idiots. "Let's all go down to the Jack in the Box with our rifles. That'll really show everyone how dedicated to the cause we are."


What are these guys even trying to accomplish with their "movement"?

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki

while our President has claimed sole authority to kill any American he chooses, without trial

do you not understand the process by which the use of force against those deemed to be acting and threatening the US is allowed, or do you understand but feel the need to satisfy you obsessive itch against Obama regardless of the statement's accuracy?

I'm not a fan of the use of drones to kill individuals determined to be acting against our country, but  to say that "Obama has...sole authority" ignores the process by which the action is done.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@ynotryme

The only statistics available for carry-permit holders as a group are that they are overall more law-abiding than the general public, and more law abiding than policemen. Maybe that's their common mental-health "issue" - mental stability.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@chcknhawk

How or where can we get more info? How about contacting the DO, asking for an interview?

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@ozma207

Trouble is, the trend in America is headed rapidly towards greater gun freedoms, even Chicago, it's not going to reverse. People want this freedom.

It's like gay marriage, those who are against it are losing or have lost the argument, and the trend will not reverse any time soon.

everlastingphelps
everlastingphelps topcommenter

@mark_unt  Normalization.  "You can't carry guns because people freak out."  Well, they shouldn't freak out.  "They freak out because no one carries guns."  OK, we'll start carrying guns.  "You can't carry guns because people freak out."

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@bvckvs

Every demand for "rights " since the civil rights movement has at some point been likened to it, which a lot of blacks don't like.

Why shouldn't this right - which is growing and spreading rapidly, be any different.

The only movement I can think of that is an exemption to the rule is this urge to change the earth's climate through taxation. In that case, the clever use of the term "Denier" suggests that to deny the proclamations of these climate fetishists is akin to cheering the gassing of Jews.

But, funny world that it is, GW Bush was called a Nazi for toppling the Muslim offshoot of the Nazis, the Baathists, who paid people for killing Jews.

RTGolden1
RTGolden1 topcommenter

@bvckvs I don't see where he equates the three.  He merely states that a similar internal discord affected them all.  You seem to be conflating the process with the cause.  The process is similar for all three, even if the causes are different and the impact on society, whether realized or potential, are on different levels.

tdkisok
tdkisok

@mavdog  


Facts are only valid it they support Ruddy's position. If they do not then he makes them up or uses exaggerations and blanket statements. 

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

I'm going to rely on legal sources and professionals on this one, amigo.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@bvckvs

I hear the Michael Bloomberg anti-NRA initiative is hiring. I'll bet the NRA would gladly pay your salary if Bloomberg could guarantee you a high-visibility position in an information dissemination capacity.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@bvckvs

Aside from the obvious fact that no-one is advocating violence of any kind, the accusation of small-dickeshness, fetishism, impotence, cowardice are all very common invectives invoked by anti-Constitutional rights cowards in public forums.

The "overwhelming response" you cite, like much of what you post on the internet is in all likelihood either false or misrepresented. Being familiar with your history, I suspect the response to a charge of impotence by a proved cowardly dickless nutcase banned kook was uproarious laughter.

My suggestion, to boost your bona-fides, is to monitor these groups so you can attend their next demonstration and scream your invectives at them in person, and film the results for us. My prediction is that the reaction will be, as it is online, mocking and laughter.

You can even try physical threats, as you have in the past, I'll bet you'll still have trouble getting anyone to take your loon-ass seriously.

ghkyluhhje
ghkyluhhje

@TheRuddSki "It's like gay marriage..."-Yeah, because everyone knows that like guns, no one has ever been shot by gay marriage...oh, wait. You're such a dumb fuck.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@bvckvs

The investigation of the Benghazi is ongoing, not a zillion different incidents. You're probably mistaking the tendency of the WH and State Department to withhold documents, and the news which accompanies each release which is required by law.

It is like the IRS investigation, each new discovery, resignation, court action, etc is not a new investigation, it is just continuation of a single investigation, and the pattern of lies, obfuscations and such are such that democrats would like to forget, and have Americand forget as well - hence the sloppy mis-characterization you attempt here.

OTOH, the president got four more ""Pinnochios" this week for a big lie, and Harry Reid attacked the Koch Brothers for the 58th time - with another disproved falsehood.

As is the case when he slandered Mitt Romney, his lying us protected from legal action as long as it us done from the Senate, the old man may be senile, but him lawyers aren't.

For your information, here is the Benghazi timeline. Quite revealing, and the chance you'll read it are below zero.

http://treeofmamre.wordpress.com/2014/05/07/a-complete-chronology-of-the-benghazi-non-scandal/

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@everlastingphelps

The food served at that restaurant is a greater threat to Americans than guys like these open-carry advocates.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@tdkisok

Afternoon shift at the Waffle House again, td?

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@RTGolden1

it would seem the chance of abuse is increased with a single decisionmaker, reduced with multiple decisionmakers...

RTGolden1
RTGolden1 topcommenter

@mavdog @TheRuddSkiIt would probably be better if the responsibility were lodged in one person, and publicly known.  With multiple decision makers, video-game-like unreality for the actual trigger-pullers, and low-def IR video of the actual event, not vesting one person with ultimate responsibility is the same as not taking any responsibility at all.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki

what "legal sources and professionals" do you mean?

the 3 conditions established by the Feds to kill a citizen engaged in actions against the US mandate it is not a single person making the decision.

tdkisok
tdkisok

@TheRuddSki  


The same one you are using to sue some lucky Unfair Park commentator?   LOL

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@ynotryme

Very interesting. What does it have to do with open carry laws?

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

RTGolden1

I'm actually building a site with Wordpress for a business venture w/son-in-law. I wish I knew what I was doing, it's been 15 years since I did this, and this is my first go at WP. It's fun to come here for some yucks with my buds.

RTGolden1
RTGolden1 topcommenter

@TheRuddSki Your fan base is growing rapidly, you might have to start your own blog just to hold them all!

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@ghkyluhhje

Like tdkiosk, when you completely miss the point, you have to throw in some gratuitous flamage that really accentuates your own lack of comprehension. It's really pretty funny.

PlanoDave
PlanoDave

@TheRuddSki I am going to start copy/paste his entire comments when I reply to him so he can't wipe his tracks.


TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@PlanoDave

I dunno what The comment was, but given the low bar our resident professional gov't school miseducator has historically set for personal profundity, it had to be pretty damn bad.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@PlanoDave

Sanders Kaufmann deletes more of his own comments than any other commenter here. I'm assuming he, not the moderators, are doing this, because UP has no interest in protecting Sanders from himself.

I can't even delete my own comments, not that I have any reason to - probably an iPad thing.

RTGolden1
RTGolden1 topcommenter

@bvckvs @RTGolden1Might be why I equated them to Occupy movement.

Just so you can catch on to this whole 'movement' thing: it is a process, and the fringe groups play an important role in it.  They draw attention, raise awareness.  Even negative publicity is publicity.  The Black Panthers and the NOI weren't trying to get a law passed either, and they didn't write any that I'm aware of.  They were, and still are, an important part of the Civil Rights movement.

RTGolden1
RTGolden1 topcommenter

@bvckvs @RTGolden1Still the same process; different aims, different importance (maybe), still the same process.  You're still conflating the process with the cause.  I would put the open carry movement on about the same level as the Occupy movement, with the exception that the Occupy movement was fighting for entitlements, whereas the open carry folks are advocating for keeping a right we already have, intact.

PlanoDave
PlanoDave

@bvckvs

This isn't about civil rights.  It's about folks nobody would ever take seriously, desperately trying to be taken seriously.


The irony contained in this comment made my day.

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