With Dallas City Council's Opening Prayers, It's Jesus 96, Allah 0

DallasCityHallA.jpg
Daquella manera
At the beginning of every Dallas City Council meeting, long before most spectators (and many council members) are fully awake, a religious leader of some stripe stands at the podium and offers a brief prayer. A few months ago, we wondered whether the U.S. Supreme Court might declare such displays unconstitutional, but we needn't have. In its decision in Town of Greece v. Galloway, a five-justice majority declared that inviting clergy to pray at city meetings does not violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. So if a city wants to open every single meeting with a Baptist preacher praising Jesus, that's OK basically so long as government officials aren't performing forced baptisms.

Some commentators complained that the decision could make life uncomfortable for religious minorities participating in city government, but Slate editor David Plotz questioned the significance of the decision on last Friday's episode of the Slate Political Gabfest. More than anything, he said, it's a symptom of the national divide between towns (small and homogeneous) and cities (large and diverse).

"This would never ever ever happen in a city," Plotz said. "Even in a Southern city -- if you're in Dallas or something. This would never happen."

See also: First Baptist's Robert Jeffress Wants Supreme Court to Let Him Praise Jesus at City Hall

Oh? In our highly anecdotal experience, Dallas City Council meetings invariably open with a Protestant minister offering a milquetoast appeal to Our Heavenly Father for a productive gathering. To be perfectly honest, though, we weren't really paying attention, so we decided to count.

Since Mayor Mike Rawlings took office in June 2011, he has presided over 107 meetings where an invocation was delivered. Of those, 96 -- about 90 percent -- were delivered by Christians. (This number includes several prayers offered by Councilwoman Vonciel Hill, an ordained minister, and Sheffie Kadane, who might as well be, plus a half dozen police/fire/military chaplains.)

CityofDallasInvocations.png

Five (4.7 percent) were delivered by a rabbi or representative of a Jewish organization. A Hare Krishna gave one, as did a Hindu. The "other" category includes a "Transformational Architect" from Life in Deep Ellum, the head of the Greater Dallas Asian American Chamber of Commerce, a representative of the non-religious DFW BAPS Charities, and Rawlings' scheduler.

Also worth noting: of the 96 Christian invocations, just five were delivered by Catholics. None were delivered by Muslims, Sikhs, atheists/humanists or other groups.

Below is the city's official policy on invocations:

Our policy is to reach out and include representatives of many denominations, faiths and beliefs, and we welcome suggestions. Everyone invited to lead the invocation is provided with a copy of these principles.

We remind those invited to pray that the City Council and staff, the audience and the listening and viewing public are made up of people from many faiths and beliefs. We ask that for this setting, prayers offering guidance to the Council and public be constructed in a nonsectarian manner, prayers that touch many and do not offend.

We ask that the invocations be inclusive and not divisive, and that they do not utilize language that disparages or advances a specific denomination, faith, belief or creed.

Your participation and assistance in this is appreciated. Should you have any further comments, questions, or concerns please feel free to contact the mayor's office.

Send your story tips to the author, Eric Nicholson.

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260 comments
TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

Nice read by Robert spencer responding to the bullshit coming from the bizarre "White Privilege Conference".

I thought the apologists for racism, sexism, homophobia, bigotry and related violence might enjoy it.

If you don't know who Robert Spencer is, then, well, no surprise.

Long before the international media and Michelle Obama woke up to the evil of Boko Haram, the only people calling attention to their evil and violent actions were those of us who were accused of being “racist” for opposing jihad terror and Islamic supremacism. The ridiculousness of equating resistance to jihad terror with white privilege was epitomized recently by Hamas-linked CAIR’s Ibrahim Hooper, a blonde-haired, blue-eyed white man, lecturing Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a black Somali ex-Muslim, about her “Islamophobia.” Who was the bearer of “white privilege” in that exchange? And in general, who speaks for the black and brown victims of jihad terror? Only the people who are being charged with “white privilege.” This shows the absurdity of the entire Leftist perspective on jihad terror.

Sotiredofitall
Sotiredofitall topcommenter

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those people I had to kill today because they pissed me off; and also, help me to be careful of the toes I step on today as they may be connected to the butt that I'll have to kiss tomorrow; and help me to always give 100% at work ... 12% on Monday, 23% on Tuesday, 40% on Wednesday, 20% on Thursday, 5% on Fridays; and help me to remember ... When I'm having a really bad day and it seems that people are lining up to step on the last shred of my very last nerve, that it takes 42 muscles to frown, and only 4 to extend my middle finger and tell them to bite me.


All hail J. R. "Bob" Dobbs

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

.

Everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

 -- 2 Chronicles 15:12-13

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@DonkeyHotay

Can we assume that this author, like Hirse Ali and Rushdie and others, has had to go into hiding due to the calls for death Christian zealots have issued?

BTW, I just read something thing that contradicted my assertion in a reply to conpgnitiergsum below, about western leftists (other than maybe Bill Maher) ignoring, accepting, denying or apologizing for the expansion of Islamism.

Not quite as powerful as a twitter campaign (shudder), but it is refreshing to see mainstream American liberalism react negatively to a nation other than Israel or America.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/robert-spencer/vindicated/

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  ... nothing like a WHITE CHRISTIAN from the U$A whining about the "bigotry" of the whole "Muslim world".



LOL!

CogitoErgoSum
CogitoErgoSum topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  Nice, ultra-conservative source there. I might as well post a Mother Jones article for balance.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@DonkeyHotay

There weren't high-capacity fully automatic assault pistols back then, folks dodged the bullet.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  ... this Heretical Godless writing would be as offensive to Superstitious imbeciles of the Muslim persuasion as the brain-dead simpletons of the Christian persuasion -- yet no death threats from either camp.


Speaking of Death Threats -- and ACTUAL MURDERS -- from Christian Terrorists and Zealots ... how about those Abortion Doctor Hit Lists, eh?



TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@DonkeyHotay

Well, there are quite a few Muslims (not sure what color has to do with it), who whine about the bigotry in Islam. Quite often, when they do that, several things happen - first, the fatwas, then either death or they go into hiding, second, they are either completely ignored by the left, or flat-out attacked for the bigotry of pointing out bigotry intrinsic in their faith. Quite often, the people showing hostility to these brave, (relatively) Islamics are the same ones that are quite hostile to Christians - but mostly to WHITE CHRISTIANS, because black Christians are, well, black.

When Theo Van Gogh was murdered in Amsterdam, the outrage from the left was so loud, you could hear a pin drop. When Ayaan Hirsi Ali was threatened in the tote left on the knife buried in van Gogh's head (you're next), the American left was so outraged, they screamed "who?

And often, those who safely mock, belittle and express phobia towards white (not black) Christians for their "bigotry" towards gays have nothing to say about the plight of gays in Islam as they attack people like me for my "bigotry" for pointing out painfully obvious truths.

And even the NYT admits that the reason for their silence on issues like the Mohhammed cartoons is cowardice. Hypocrisy, cowardice, bigotry, three admirable qualities of the American left - especially when defending the most dangerous and backwards religion on Earth.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  ... didn't slow the Crusades down much during their 200 year reign of terror, torture, mass murder and mayhem.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  


Fact = you're a lowlife vile scumsucking bigoted racist piece of shit, no matter what pathetic pretense you hide behind.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@DonkeyHotay

So, can't dispute a single fact, again. The more facts presented that go against your opinions, the nastier you get. Did you CC Bill Maher? Are you going to book several rooms at the Beverly Hills Hotel to offset the boycott by Hollywood liberals due to the owner's Islamist policies?

If you're on the wrong side of history in regards to human rights, you're probably smart to remain anonymous on the internet, lest your liberal friends discover what you support.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  ... listen to the lowlife shitsucking bigoted racist squeal like the worthless vile pig that he is.


At least the Afrikkkaners had the honesty to admit their bigotry and racism, overtly.


At least the KKK and Aryan Nations have the honesty to admit their bigotry, racism and hatred.


Repugnant cowardly scumbags like you don't even have the honesty to admit and confess your wretched prejudice.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@DonkeyHotay

A final note. When you call my position in regards to Islam that of a "lowlife bigoted racist pieces of shit", you're calling Bill Maher and many, many liberals the same - as well as the majority of Europe, Australia, and in fact, the majority of the developed world. Funny thing is, you take zero risk in doing so, while those you cite as bigots often risk all to state the truth, yet you essentially call them, and me, cowards. Does your cognitive dissonance cause headaches!

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@DonkeyHotay

You have been unable to actually prove a "lie", your attempt to support your position while I presented facts has degenerated to the point that you have essentially voided any valid point you tried to make by having a meltdown.

Fact- there was a vote at UCLA by the student senate on Israel divestment, which was rejected.

The Pro-Palestinian group, not liking the outcome, challenged on some procedural grounds.

The meeting to discuss this move had to be closed "due to safety concerns"

Now, given the history of Islamist and "pro-Palestinian" groups on campuses in the past, what do you think these "safety concerns" were?

Could the violent nature of the aforementioned groups have been the problem? Ya think?

People like you, who defend homophobia, violent racial and religious bigotry, misogynistic primitivism, and violent repressions of human rights and freedoms are funny as hell calling me - holding the opposite of your position - a "bigoted racist piece of shit".

I feel confident in stating another fact you can't counter: you're an idiot..

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  ... that's the lie that lowlife bigoted racist pieces of shit like you pathetically cower behind.



TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@DonkeyHotay

"Attacking" is a code word for "presenting inarguable facts", used by people who personally "attack" the character of the person presenting facts. It is de facto surrender and retreat.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  " I'm agnostic at best."


With quite the prejudicial penchant for attacking Islam in particular.



TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@DonkeyHotay

Your bigotry and hatred are wasted on me, I'm agnostic at best. I bet I know more Xtian jokes than you, I just don't hate them like some nuts do.

Since 1993, there have been seven abortion- related murders. In Iran alone, since the 1979 revolution, about 4,000 gays and lesbians have been put to death.

BTW, Chris Hitchens was a much more anti-religion polemicist than Dawkins. As you may recall, Hitchens was quite the leftist, until the leftist support of Islamism and totalitarianism disgusted him.

You should read

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/1997/jul/17/goodbye-to-all-that/

And

http://observer.com/2002/10/goodbye-all-that-how-left-idiocies-drove-me-to-flee/#axzz3207GkzWH

This is why old-time liberals like me came to identify with modern "Buckley conservatism".

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@CogitoErgoSum

If you're not aware of the documented spread of wahabanism and other forms of Islamism (I'm assuming you know what Islamism is) since the Iranian revolution, which has been noted even by Islamics, you're not paying attention.

"there are zealots everywhere" does not mean "Islamism is not coming to dominate Islam". Even Bill Maher, the great liberal philosopher knows this.

Even the NYT knows this, very few people of any political stripe have the "same as all zealotry" attitude.

There is no appreciable counter to the growing radicalism, there is no effective "peace" movement - I doubt there is enough desire for theIslam you suggest is mainstream to hold on to the modernity that our blood and treasure brought to Iraq and Afghanistan. The western left simply does not care about human rights in Islam, they are more concerned in propagating the propaganda of CAIR.

Radical Islam is in ascension, growing, taking over. You're safe, you needn't care, you are in no danger, as long as you don't go to Muslim-dominated areas of European cities or Dearborn MI and openly violate shariah. But much of the world is in danger, most notably Europe and of course Israel.

CogitoErgoSum
CogitoErgoSum topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  My objection is the attitude that Muslims, simply because they are Muslim, are somehow predisposed to a level of violence above and beyond the zealotry of other religionists. This is the definition of bigotry and phobia. There are millions of Muslims who would never dream of becoming jihadists. Your evidence is scant, at best.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@CogitoErgoSum

Do you think that attitude will be helpful when diplomacy is called for? Or do you think we should just nuke'em, cuz, y'know Muhammad?

I'm not sure what "attitude" you're referencing in your reply, I'm just stating facts. I've not said anything about nuking anyone.

But, about nukes, I when Iran gets nukes, then so will the Saudis - with help from Israel most likely. The only question is who will nuke whom first there, given the "attitude" Iran has shown towards Israel over the years.

Sometimes I think, based on your comments, you'd feel most at home sitting back and watching the world burn while you tell others, "I told you so." Don't let's try and do anything positive; let's just point out how terrible these people are.

I think you just don't like my negativity towards Islam, and feel compelled to defend the religion because you don't like my politics, and you don't like me pointing out the hypocrisy and contradictions of the leftist position on human rights and Islam.

It's funny. People bash Christians a lot here, and there's not a lot of rage or blowback from Christians. But state simple facts about Islamism, and the shit hits the fan - quite often from the same people who attack Christianity's "bigotries", which are 10X worse in the Islamic world. Why do you think that is?

CogitoErgoSum
CogitoErgoSum topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  Do you think that attitude will be helpful when diplomacy is called for? Or do you think we should just nuke'em, cuz, y'know Muhammad? Sometimes I think, based on your comments, you'd feel most at home sitting back and watching the world burn while you tell others, "I told you so." Don't let's try and do anything positive; let's just point out how terrible these people are.

RTGolden1
RTGolden1 topcommenter

@DonkeyHotay @RTGolden1I don't condemn anyone.  His attack on Islam would be hypocritical, if I had not seen him also attack christian groups, atheist groups and groups not having anything at all to do with religion on this board.  Rudd seems mostly to attack those things and ideologies he considers stupid or inane.  When he's not busy toying with the likes of you.

CogitoErgoSum
CogitoErgoSum topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  Imaginary studies will get you nowhere. If you believe that those who carry out the majority of the violence under the fiat of Islam are well educated, I'll need to see some evidence of that. Of course the leadership is more educated, but the masses are not.


A snapshot of the mayhem caused by one religion's adherents in the past 25 years in a specific part of the world is hardly representative of its many centuries of existence, nor does it take into account the millions killed who were seen as enemies of Christanity.


You still have yet to offer a convincing argument that the religion of Islam is somehow, by its very nature, responsible for more violence than other religions.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@RTGolden1 " I was pointing out the hypocrisy of claiming the Peace and Purity of Islam while bashing the entirety of christianity'


So you condemn -- unequivocally -- the bashing of the entirety of Islam by ignorant bigoted inbred racists and haters like Rudd?



DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  


Jewish Terrorism


The "Bat Ayin Underground" or Bat Ayin group. In 2002, four people from Bat Ayin and Hebron were arrested outside of Abu Tor School, a Palestinian girls' school in East Jerusalem, with a trailer filled with explosives. Three of the men were convicted for the attempted bombing

RTGolden1
RTGolden1 topcommenter

@DonkeyHotay @RTGolden1@mavdog@TheRuddSkiThis is all very interesting, and I'm perfectly aware of all of these stories.  I was not making any kind of claim that christians hold some sort of moral high ground.  I was pointing out the hypocrisy of claiming the Peace and Purity of Islam while bashing the entirety of christianity.  


Thanks for proving my point. The windmills are winning.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@RTGolden1 @mavdog @TheRuddSki  


The motive for anti-abortionist Scott Roeder murdering Wichita doctor George Tiller on 31 May 2009 was the belief that abortion is not only immoral, but also a form of murder under "God's law", irrespective of "man's law" in any country, and that this belief went "hand in hand" with his religious beliefs.


The group supporting Roeder proclaimed that any force used to protect the life of a born child is "legitimate to protect the life of an unborn child", and called on all Christians to "rise up" and "take action" against threats to Christianity and to unborn life.


Eric Robert Rudolph carried out the Centennial Olympic Park bombing in 1996, as well as subsequent attacks on an abortion clinic and on a lesbian nightclub. Michael Barkun, a professor at Syracuse University, considers Rudolph to fit the definition of a Christian terrorist.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@RTGolden1 @mavdog @TheRuddSki  


More Christian Terrorism in the U$A 


After 1981, members of groups such as the Army of God began attacking abortion clinics and doctors across the United States.


A number of terrorist attacks were attributed by Bruce Hoffman to individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements, including the Lambs of Christ.


A group called Concerned Christians was deported from Israel on suspicion of planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999; they believed that their deaths would "lead them to heaven"


...........


Must be some more of  that "localized tribal" terrorism Rudd is pathetically apologizing for.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@RTGolden1 @mavdog @TheRuddSki  

Christian terrorism


In July 2011, Anders Behring Breivik was arrested and charged with terrorism after a car bombing in Oslo and a mass shooting on Utøya island that killed 77 people. 

Hours prior to the events, Breivik released a 1,500 page manifesto detailing that immigrants were undermining Norway's traditional Christian values, identifying himself as a "Christian crusader".

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@TheRuddSki


Ethnic Cleansing of CAR Muslims by Christian Militias


CAIRO – Anti-Balaka fighters in the Central African Republic are trying to "ethnically cleanse Muslims", a leading international human rights organization has warned, accusing peacekeeping forces of failing to protect the threatened Muslim minority.


“Anti-balaka militias are carrying out violent attacks in an effort to ethnically cleanse Muslims in the Central African Republic,” Joanne Mariner, senior crisis response adviser at Amnesty International said in the report released on the group’s site on Tuesday, February 11.


“The result is a Muslim exodus of historic proportions.”

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  "More regional tribal squabbles irrelevant to the developed world."



Christian Militia Charged With Plotting to Murder Officers

CLAYTON, Mich
. — David B. Stone Sr. and his wife, Tina, made no secret about the fact that they were part of a militia, neighbors say. The couple frequently let visitors in military fatigues erect tents in front of their trailer home at the intersection of rural dirt roads, and the sound of gunfire was routine.

...In an indictment against the nine unsealed on Monday, the Justice Department said they were part of a group of apocalyptic Christian militants who were plotting to kill law enforcement officers in hopes of inciting an antigovernment uprising, the latest in a recent surge in right-wing militia activity.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  


Christian Militia Could Wipe Out Central African Republic's Muslim Population


February 14, 2014|12:14 pm

Christian militia in the Central African Republic's Muslim population could drive the entire Islamic group out of the country, a human rights group claimed earlier this week.

HRW employees in the Central African Republic have claimed to have witnessed anti-balaka forces 
cutting "the throats of Muslim civilians, publicly lynching, mutilating, and setting their bodies on fire." It also reported attacks where the groups had cut off body parts or hacked Muslims to death.

It pointed to Yaloké, which prior to the arrival of anti-balaka forces boasted an estimated Muslim population of 30,000 and eight mosques. Now, it is reported that the town has only one mosque and 500 Muslims. Many Muslim homes in the area were also looted by members of the Christian militia.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

By standards of elections, education, jobs, women's rights, these countries are measurably more progressive.

But it will be over soon. Modern Islamism is too strong, liberal Islam is too weak, or has flown the coop, along with the Jews and Christians.

But I get what you're saying, by our norms, they are primitive and barbaric, and we can't do anything about it. Especially if we're not there.

You see, we agree.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@DonkeyHotay

More regional tribal squabbles irrelevant to the developed world.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki

Cindy Sheehan??? seriously? That is who you reference?

good grief.

these societies are not more progressive due to our actions unfortunately. we cannot force the population to accept our norms.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@DonkeyHotay

N. Ireland is/ was a localized conflict. You don't see Irish Catholics or Protestants declaring war on half the world, or calling for the elimination of an entire tribe/race of people.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  


Feb 24, 2014 - CARNOT, CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC— Christian militiamen killed at least 70 people in the remote southwest of Central African Republic ...

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki

"Modern Islam". your use of the phrase reveals the accuracy of my remarks.

There is no singular "Modern Islam". There is, just as there are in every one of the religions, in our world a variety of thoughts within Islam. Some are babaric, just as some Christians, some Jews, some Hindus, some Buddhists are barbaric.

I haven't called you a racist. A bigot yes, but not a racist.

If calling you out for your stated positions is "personal invective", sobeit. I disagree as the act is of your own making.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

lso, what "fascist left...screams" can you relate to us as far as Afganistan?

Cindy Sheehan... A.N.S.W.E.R. ......Harry Belefonte. It's a rather long list

And what exactly has been accomplished in regard to our effort to "liberalize" in either....

How many elections has both countries had? Count 'em.

And...

"During the Taliban’s reign, fewer than one million children went to school in Afghanistan. Now about six million children are registered in schools and about one third of them are girls."

There's lots more, but it will all be thrown away.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  ... Modern Christianity is, really, overall, provably barbaric -- by any moral standard -- as evidenced by the Murder, Mayhem and Bloodshed in Northern Ireland.



TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

Modern Islam is, really, overall, provably barbaric since the Iranian revolution - by western standards.

If you want to pretend that by "modern Islam" I mean Islamic neurologists and such who have run from the daily bloodiness of modern post-revolution Islam, which is stronger than it has ever been in modern history, in order to attack me as racist, I'll simply ignore you. The need to invoke personal invective in order to put someone in a defensive position is really quite boring.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  


" (The Palestinians are) beasts walking on two legs." 

-- Menahim Begin



"When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." -- Raphael Eitan, chief of IDF


"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to."

 -- Golda Maier, Israeli Prime Minister


"There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed." 

-- Golda Maier


The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war." 

-- Israeli General Matityahu Peled


We must do everything to insure they ( the Palestinians) never do return.The old will die and the young will forget." -- David Ben-Gurion


"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist... There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population." 

-- Moshe Dayan

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@DonkeyHotay

. the bigoted racist doth protest too much.

I would say this is your admission that your ineffective arguments have run their course, and your shallow well has run dry.

But, since you've not made any cogent argument on the subject, I can't even say that.

Stick to screaming RACIST! It saves time.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki

uh huh, "self-serving".

hmmm... "the barbarism of modern Islam," and "primitive anti-choice homophobic misogynists that hate your guts"...

and that's just in this thread

I know, I know, when you are called on the carpet by using your own words it may very well be "quite boring at times" to you.

but not to us.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

Your characterization of my characterization is self-serving. Your tendency for the capillary is distracting, and debate with you is really quite boring at times.

I have always, always maintained what I stayed above, the US, by virtue of geography and immigration law, gets a better class of Muslim than Europe.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@CogitoErgoSum

Sorry, but every study I've seen says that Islamism is primarily driven by the educated class of Islamists. You're really not very well-versed in this subject if you were unaware of that.

The lower classes are just fodder, but the primitivism - true Islam is by western standards very primitive - is championed primarily by the educated Islamist able to mingle with and/or observe Western ways.

Most of the killings you see today in Iraq tho, those are inter-tribal struggles for power, and the Islamists will win, because the urge for democracy, liberalism and self-determination is not, and never has been, a strong part of Islam.

Oh, to answer your second question about limiting to the past 25 years - that is roughly when true Islam began its resurgence in reaction to the growing westernization of Muslim countries. You can actually pinpoint the Iranian revolution as a benchmark.

Look at photos of universities, crowds, young people pre-Khomeni, all Western garb. Now, all Islamic garb.

Previous to that, body-count wise of course was leftist darling communism, which actually has the highest body count of any modern ideology. Sorry.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki

Actually, as a supporter of the attempt to liberalize and democratize Iraq and Afghanistan over the screams of the fascist American left, I find your comment amusing.

why would the effort to "liberalize and democratize Iraq and Afganistan" have ANY relevance to the comment I made about your propensity to characterize Muslims as a monolithic group? Your self proclaimed "support" hasn't stopped you from doing such characterization. Also, what "fascist left...screams" can you relate to us as far as Afganistan? And what exactly has been accomplished in regard to our effort to "liberalize" in either country?

CogitoErgoSum
CogitoErgoSum topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  You hit the nail on the head and cut through your mouth-frothery by pointing out that the heart of the matter - and your quibble with the Islamic people of the Third World - is not their religion, but the fact that they are "primitive" in some ways, primarily because of a lack of education. There it truly is. The most uneducated among us - and often most disenfranchised - are easily led astray by religious zealotry. It's not the fact that they are Muslim, but the fact that they are ignorant and uneducated members of societies with many problems related to corruption and poverty. I realize that many of the uppermost members of Qaeda were/are educated but they truly represent a minority among their fellow Muslims.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@doublecheese

As long as by defending them he can get a dig in at Christians, it's totally worth it.

I'm going to take a page from the lefty play book and assume that the knee-jerk defense of homophobic misogynist Islamism by the left is just repressed hatred of gays and the dominance of strong feminism over weak girly-men.

The old dog-whistle code stuff.

What else could explain the cognitive contradictions?

Two of my favorite placards spotted when the American left was defending Saddam:

LESBIANS FOR PALESTINE!, and a classic for the ages, held by an angry, dykish woman: WE DEMAND A PERMANENT END TO ALL WAR!!!

You really have to wonder if these types are able to feed themselves.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

Actually, as a supporter of the attempt to liberalize and democratize Iraq and Afghanistan over the screams of the fascist American left, I find your comment amusing.

The advantage America has is that it is difficult for Islamists to flood our borders. Unlike some favored groups, they have to meet certain requirements, so the US is much more likely to get moderate Muslims anxious to escape the primitives I attack here. They in general do well, educated, professional and such.

Europe is not quite so lucky in that regard.

doublecheese
doublecheese

@TheRuddSki  As long as by defending them he can get a dig in at Christians, it's totally worth it.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@DonkeyHotay

...according to a senior Palestinian politician

Western lefties will believe any and all propaganda from America's enemies - this old particular gem is one indication. You probably don't even know the actual story behind this third-hand myth. You probably wouldn't want to.

Your defense of primitive anti-choice homophobic misogynists that hate your guts is really quite touching.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki

what is even more amusing is when people characterize Muslims as some sort of monolithic group who are all radical Islamists focused on killing others and attacking America.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  


George Bush has claimed he was on a mission from God when he launched the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, according to a senior Palestinian politician in an interview to be broadcast by the BBC later this month.


Mr Bush revealed the extent of his religious fervour when he met a Palestinian delegation during the Israeli-Palestinian summit at the Egpytian resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, four months after the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.


President Bush said: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."


Mr Bush went on: "And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it."


Mr Bush, who became a born-again Christian at 40, is one of the most overtly religious leaders to occupy the White House

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@DonkeyHotay

It's always amusing when people try to defend the actions of 21st-century Islamics by citing 10th-century wars which were simply military actions to reclaim lands, like most wars.

Do you have any better point to make to defend the barbarism of modern Islam, like inventing zero or something?

As Obama said, Islam has a rich history in the formation of America, one of "the worlds largest Muslim nations" (LOL). That history, as you might know, is contained in the USMC theme song.

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