Dallas' Plastic Bag Fee Will Bring Dire Consequences, Kroger Warns

Categories: Biz, City Hall

KrogerFlickrNicholasEckhart.jpg
Nicholas Eckhart
If the Dallas City Council thought its baby-splitting compromise on single-use shopping bags (a $.05 cent fee, not a ban) could stave off the bagpocalypse of free market prophecy, they were sorely mistaken.

As Kroger rep Gary Huddleston eagerly explained to WFAA on Thursday, the consequences once the new ordinance goes into effect on January 1 will be dire.

"We've got a real concern with this new ordinance that charges a nickel per paper and plastic bag that customers may go into our [recycle] barrels to take out plastic bags to re-use them," he said.

See also: Dallas Won't Ban Plastic Bags at Stores, But You'll Have to Start Paying for Them

The thought of all those grubby fingers rifling through bins in search of the now-precious polyethylene sacks is too much for Kroger, which Huddleston says will remove recycling bins from its eight Dallas stores.

It gets worse:

In addition, the new ordinance forces Kroger and other retailers to add signs, reprogram cash registers to account for the bags, train staff, and even reprint all of their bags to include their thickness on them.

Printing enormous blue "Kroger" logos on millions of bags is easy. Adding a tiny number to the design is a different matter entirely,.

Worse still, cashiers who spend all day entering numbers into their register will have to enter another number into their register:

Plus, retailers worry check-out lines could get longer, since bags have to be added to your bill before you pay.

Basically, you should just start stockpiling goats for when Dallasites are reduced to bartering for sustenance.

Send your story tips to the author, Eric Nicholson.


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390 comments
stopthefoodtax
stopthefoodtax

The plastic bag is recyclable.  It is a closed loop.  Cities that have curbside recycling where you can put your plastic into your bin as you put it on the curb have had the most success.  A city in Wisconsin gets paid to send it to Trex industries where 140000 bags go into one deck.  A city in CA sells it to a company that in turn makes it into a bag again and then it goes back to the stores.  Wow.  Plus it takes the shrink wrap , garment bags and more.  This is a solution.  A 16 year old boy isolated a microbe as his science project that can desolve a plastic bag in 3 months. This is a solution.  A 19 year old has found a way to get rid all particles of plastic from the ocean in 10 years.  This is a solution.  

This ban is making Kroger remove all its recycle containers from the store, because people are reusing the bags!  That just goes to show you what this ban really is.  It is to increase profit only. 

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas

I noted with interest that Steve Blow, of DOD (Dallas'es Only Daily) says that the bag collection at the counter is indeed a "tax".  He also made mention with some scorn of the expansion of city hall staff and the creation of an entirely new department necessary to police and collect taxes on the bags. 


This is just another scam from Dallas City Hall. This is the camel's nose not just in the tent, but much of the camel entering.  This will be the nascent Environmental Protection Department of Dallas.  The five cents won't fund it for even a year, so they'll raise the nickel to a dime, then a quarter, and so on. 

Once the most business-friendly city in the country, Dallas is starting to look more and more like Santa Monica, California.  Meanwhile, adjacent competing cities will benefit substantially from Dallas shoppers who don't wish to be nickeled-and-dimed to death by the Dallas City Council and will shop in those cities with all the free bags you need.



joshua
joshua

Sams club does not provide ANY bags for ANYTHING you purchase, groceries or otherwise.  Europe shoppers carry their OWN net bags to the grocery store when they shop, NO free bags.  The USA is PACKAGING lazy and consumption driven only.  Take away all fast food packaging with paper, plastic, or styrofoam....and make folks figure out how to eat their junk food somehow on their own....but the issue IS...bags and paper containers are cheap ways to make food prep and sales EFFICIENT to move from preparation to the customer.

meliper
meliper

Nonsense! Some people only purpose in life is to complicate other people's life. Let us all defeat that 5 cent bag fee and focus on the many good things in life. http://ow.ly/vaQF8

Americano
Americano

People who don't give a shit about themselves or where they live, throw their trash on the ground.  People who do, throw their trash in trashcans.  Charging for plastic bags won't change that.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

Waaah waaaah waaaah! ... we're whiny white Texans from Dallas who don't have a pathetic nickel for a plastic bag, and are too lazy to bring our own bags from home .... whaaah waaaah! ... the sky is falling.


DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@noblefurrtexas  <== insane enough to spend $$ in gasoline driving 30+ minutes just to avoid a 5 cent bag fee ... that he could avoid anyway by simply bringing his own bags from home.


Another Krazy Konservative.

stopthefoodtax
stopthefoodtax

@joshua they provide you with boxes.  The items are usually too large to fit in bags.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@wontunow  ... so bring your own damn bags, you lazy slacker.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@Americano  ... charging for plastic bags means there will be fewer bags for those people to throw on the ground ... especially after they were required to pay a nickel for them.

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas

@DonkeyHotay It is totally understandable how you could miss the important principles involved.  


The American Revolution took place because of a minute tax charged to the colonists for Tea.  


This is worse.  The entire city is being penalized for the irresponsible actions of a few in parts of town where this has been the case for decades.  Rather than dealing with the litterers, the Dallas City Council is taxing everyone. 


What even worse, it won't solve the littering problem.  It just pays the city to sometimes clean up after people who don't care about their neighborhoods or the city.

stopthefoodtax
stopthefoodtax

@DonkeyHotay Its principle especially since these bans are not going to save the ocean, birds or anything in mother nature.  It is strictly a way for corporate retailers to make millions on fees, sales of plastic waste bags and reusable bags. Not to mention no longer having the overhead of providing bags.  The plastic bag makes less then one percent of litter and there are many studies that show it has the smallest footprint of all the options.  The reusable must be used 131 times to equal the footprint of ONE plastic bag. Mine can't make it past a few washes.  It doesn't even take into account having to wash them.  Recycling is the right direction.  One plastic bag can be made back into a plastic bag.  As you can see by the article above, the intention is not to save the earth but to make a profit.  Now even the recycling bins will be gone. 

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas

@DonkeyHotay If you look at a map of Dallas, you will see there are hundreds of thousands of Dallasites within minutes (or a few blocks) of the Park Cities, Pleasant Grove, Garland, Richardson, Plano, Irving, Carrollton, Duncanville, and many other adjacent competitive cities with comparable stores.

And there are a ton of Dallasites who would drive the same distance in a different direction, or a few more blocks, for the sake of convenience and to deliver a message to the Dallas City Council.


You know as well as I do that within a few months, as another city bureaucracy is born, the costs will outpace the bag tax income, and the bag tax will start its incremental growth to absurd amounts. 


Meanwhile, littering in certain parts of town will not change, and not stop.

stopthefoodtax
stopthefoodtax

@DonkeyHotay Take a look at your stores now.  Tons of reusable bags near the checkstand.  The footprint of those far outweigh the footprint of the plastic bag.  Plus nothing in the ordinance keeps you from buying plastic carryout bags.  50 for a dollar for the waste basket size and can fit in the palm of your hand.  1000 for 13.99 at Sams club and that will last you for two years.  So the theory of taking plastic from the environment goes out the window. 

Open your eyes.  If you want to pay more at the checkstand so corporate retailers can celebrate.  Then go for this, because it doesn't save on litter, save the earth or anything like that. 

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas

@DonkeyHotay Wait until conventions, visitors, and tourists coming to Dallas are forced to pay a bag tax for shopping in Dallas, and see how well that sits with businesses and citizens who count on visitor spending -- which is most educated citizens. 


The deeper one digs into this farce, the worse it gets!

Americano
Americano

@DonkeyHotay

People that litter don't care about the cost.  It already cost the city to pick up litter.  They don't care.  It makes the city look trashy.  They don't care.  If they did, they wouldn't litter.  

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@noblefurrtexas "The American Revolution took place because of a minute tax charged to the colonists for Tea. "


Infantile idiocy.


The 5 cent bag fee does not deny you representation, you can try and vote out the city council if you desire, or run for one of the seats.


There are LOTS of fees and taxes you don't personally benefit from, or don''t like -- that doesn't make them unjust.



noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas

@DonkeyHotay @noblefurrtexasI'm not sure you can even START IT for five cents.  :-)


But, I think you're discounting the defiant nature of Texans to make a point, not to mention the value of added convenience. 

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@noblefurrtexas ... and exactly how far can you drive your gas-pig SUV on 5 cents worth of OPEC blood-oil?


Can you even make it out of the driveway?



DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@stopthefoodtax ... buy all the bags you want. Fact is, the bans on free plastic grocery bags have shown a HUGE reduction in usage in cities where they've been implemented.



RTGolden1
RTGolden1 topcommenter

@telstar777 @noblefurrtexasThey don't force anyone to take birth control, but they are trying to force everyone to pay for it.  It is not a large leap to get from one to the other.

Think, consider, type.

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas

@DonkeyHotay It has nothing to do with race.  I know Hispanic and Latino families who would NEVER litter out of self-respect.  


Illegal aliens are quite different.  They're breaking laws just being here, cheat on everything from welfare forms to fake identities and licenses, and could care less about disposing of trash properly.  They are the second highest category of thefts and violent crimes, and they cost us a bloody fortune in criminal justice expenses. 


Look in parts of Dallas populated by illegals, and you see trash and litter at rates many times that of more civil neighborhoods. 

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@noblefurrtexas " Dallas is the number one destination for illegal aliens, a large part of the littering problem ..."


It doesn't take long for a Teatard Repuglykkkan to show their hatred, bigotry and racism.



noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas

@Mamie @noblefurrtexas@DonkeyHotayThe tourism and visitor character contrasts between Dallas and Austin are like lighting and a lightning bug.  


Austin's population, as a major college town and the state capital, is about 840,000 -- depending on school calendars.  Dallas is over 2.5 million and growing daily.  In fact, Dallas is the number one destination for illegal aliens, a large part of the littering problem -- but not the only offenders. 


I was in the State Capitol store just two months ago, and was given a plastic bag for my purchases for which there was no fee, nor was it mentioned. 


Nobody would be surprised at a bag tax in the People's Republic of Austin.  Most people would be surprised or shocked to see one in Dallas.

telstar777
telstar777

@noblefurrtexas

Oh, I have skin.  I have a long history with Dallas and am very connected to it.  And no, I don't think this is just about a micro litter problem. 

Because I do now live outside Dallas I have something to offer you that you don't already have:  perspective outside your little petty "litterbug minded" politics.

The main point you keep avoiding is that you don't have to pay ANY "bag tax" if you just bring a shopping bag or two with you (keep a couple in your car.  They cost a couple of bucks or less.)

Your other incredibly lame point about how there will still be litter if there wasn't this "bag tax" is really disingenuous, because it seems pretty self evident that this policy will take a chunk out of rampant plastic clutter.   You lose on that point too.  And no,

As far as this point:

"
This is no different than making women in one neighborhood take birth control pills because a neighborhood on the other side of town has too many illegitimate children."

Pardon me for assuming you can discuss this issue rationally.  Sorry, I didn't realize you were a nut.  Firstly, no one anywhere forces anyone to take birth control.  Secondly, you need to think outside your prison of provincial thought, that since your neighborhood looks fine, that there is no problem.  The city council has to respond to problems that affect the entire city, not just your little primrose bedotted neighborhood.

I still think you are a paid commenter noblefurrtexas, but someone is not getting their moneysworth.

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas

@telstar777 @noblefurrtexas   So you don't live in Dallas, have no skin in this game, and clearly don't understand Dallas government or the rather localized litter problem. 


This "solution" of a bag tax is a pseudo-solution in search of a problem; but, doesn't touch it. The problem isn't shopping bags.  It is irresponsible people who don't care about their neighborhood that litter. 


Remove shopping bags, and there are still dozens of items of litter that will foul neighborhoods and shopping strips.


This is no different than making women in one neighborhood take birth control pills because a neighborhood on the other side of town has too many illegitimate children.

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas

@telstar777 @noblefurrtexasTo the contrary, I am familiar with very liberal cities like - for example - Seattle, and their handling of bag ordinances, and liberal cities like Portland, San Francisco, Bellingham WA, and Washington DC who have banned or collect taxes/fees for bags.  Of course, most of these are coastal cities, known for being unreasonably liberal, and claim damage to sea creatures by plastic bags. 


Dallas, of course, is a land-locked city with a creek posing as a river, and not environmentally impacted citywide by plastic bags or even littering.  They represent a problem in only a small area of the city. 


But, all of the cities who have passed bag taxes, under any other name, are also active in their opposition to the petroleum industry and petroleum producst. 


Dallas is a capital of the oil and gas industry, and Texas is the most representative state for the petroleum industry in the country. 


We don't like attempts to limit our freedom or impose unnecessary regulations on businesses or taxpaying citizens.

telstar777
telstar777

@noblefurrtexas

I live in a city with a bag fee (if you don't bring your own) and to be honest, no one really cares.  They just bring their own shopping bags.

But don't let that stop you from comment after comment about things you know absolutely nothing about.  

Hey, ever thought of educating yourself before you say stupid things?  Yeah, didn't think so

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas

@DonkeyHotay @AmericanoIt's more accurate to say that when it costs them enough, they stop.  A nickel here and there will have no impact, but anger a great many people never litter.

Americano
Americano

@DonkeyHotay

Then let's charge $10 per bag.  If .05 will curb it, $10 will stop it in it's tracks.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@Americano "People that litter don't care about the cost"


Complete bullshit ... when it costs THEM, they stop.




DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  "Not being a legislator, I might have a problem following your suggestion"


So what's stopping you from running for office, besides fear and lack of support for your callow selfish Teabaggin' ideals?



TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@DonkeyHotay

Not being a legislator, I might have a problem following your suggestion. Skip civics class?

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@noblefurrtexas @telstar777


You don't pay for what you don't use, so bring your own damn bag, or drive to Fort Worth to buy you groceries if that nickel bag is so damn important to you.

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas

@telstar777 @noblefurrtexas@DonkeyHotay   @telstar777 @joshua It is no surprise that it has been implemented or passed in very liberal cities, most of which are coastal cities claiming plastic bags hurt sea creatures.

I am familiar with ordinances in Seattle, for example, and other hyper-liberal cities like  Portland, San Francisco, Bellingham, WA, Washington DC, Edmonds WA, and others.

 

And isn't it interesting that all of these cities hate the oil and gas industries, are variously anti-business, contain environmental whackos every square mile, and voted for Obama.

Dallas is practically the capital of the oil and gas industry in America, and Texas is the leading oil and gas state in the country. 

So, I am quite familiar with the failings of bag ordinances, and can project forward that this tax on bags in Dallas will grow and grow, won't solve the actual problem, but will increase the cost of Dallas municipal government by huge amounts of money.

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas

@telstar777 @noblefurrtexas@DonkeyHotayI already pay for the bags.  Why should I want a tax added onto the costs of the bags? 


If you want to get the policy right, get the principle right first.  


You still haven't made a case for why Dallas, Texas, should do away with plastic bags,  You simply rest your case on the importance of being an unthinking liberal following a doctrine someone else said was Progressive and good for the party.

telstar777
telstar777

@noblefurrtexas @DonkeyHotay
I feel sorry for Texas sometimes having so many willfuly ignorant conservatives living there.   So, the term, "a long list of tyrannical actions" is used to analogize a freaking bag fee -- that merely compels people to bring their own damn bags to the supermarket?  Big f. deal.  So, it's time to start screaming "Attica!"? 

By the way, I live in a city that has had these bag fees for a couple of years, and it just means I bring my own bags to the store.  If I don't, I pay a measly 5¢ -- and that helps me remember next time.  It is a prime example of an idea that has a good effect on the environment with the least amount of stress to the consumer.  Aka: Win-Win.

But no, some idiot thinks this is a great example of an issue with which to invoke the Bill Of Rights?  Get real. Learn what is an apt analogy, and what's just a distortion into the absurd.  You ideological conservatives are hapless and hopeless. 

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@TheRuddSki  ... perhaps you can introduce legislation that requires all those arrested and jailed for littering to labor at making U$ Flags ... made from recycled plastic bags.


hth.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@Donkey

No. But if you want to find some made by prisoners, if they in fact exist, you probably could.

I assume you prefer the flammable model?

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@Donkey

I can provide you with a list of companies who sell American-made US flags, if I thought you actually needed to buy a US flag.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@noblefurrtexas @TheRuddSki  


Be sure to bring your Made in China U$ Flag as counter protest ... you can carry in inside your 5 cent plastic shopping bag.



TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@noblefurrtexas

Recall the mass marches of illegals mostly in LA in response to "immigration reform" efforts of the day? it was a sea of people and flags, none of them American flags, and presumably few American people.

Later polls showed actually a decrease in support for "illegal rights", etc - much due to the flag issue.

So, the "community organizers", who know of propaganda and top-down grassroots movements and the like, acted quickly, and the next round of mass-marching foreign nationals featured not a single flag from the countries represented by the marchers, they were all American flags.

BTW, ever been to a US vs Mexico soccer match in LA? El orgullo nacional es increíble.

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas

@TheRuddSkiI totally agree.  

I read not long ago about American schools in California that fly the Mexican flag on school flagpoles on Cinco de Mayo using the excuse that  they have a majority of Hispanic students.

Here in Dallas, the Mexican Consulate got busted for supplying all the Mexican Flags for a student demonstration on the streets of downtown Dallas.  Can anyone spell "s_t_u_p_i_d_o"?



TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@noblefurtexas

On Cinco de Mayo, there are some schools that will not permit display of the US flag because of its incendiary nature on that day.

However, I'd wager that one could display the French flag and no-one would be the wiser.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@Donkey

Back in the day, you probably would have signed up with the Redcoats.

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas

@DonkeyHotay @noblefurrtexas  

You bleated, "If you think you can instigate a Dallas Bag Party -- dressed up as Mexicans of course -- perhaps you can start the spark that causes Texas to secede from the U$A ..."

Why would I want Texas to secede from the U.S. over a bag tax?  The tax was not imposed by the federal government, but by a seriously flawed local government. 

And, I wouldn't dress up as a Mexican with a gun to my head except perhaps when I and my family celebrate Cinco de Mayo just as we celebrate Texas Independence Day.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@noblefurrtexas 


Boston Tea Party = cowards who dressed up like Native Americans


Jefferson and Washington were a SLAVE OWNERS, not much more insulting than that.


If you think you can instigate a Dallas Bag Party -- dressed up as Mexicans of course -- perhaps you can start the spark that causes Texas to secede from the U$A ...


... Good Riddance! 

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas

@DonkeyHotay @noblefurrtexas 

Boston Tea Party = Camel, back, broke, ignition.  There was a long list (See "Bill of Rights") of tyrannical  actions by King George against the colonists.  But, as so eloquently cited by Adams, Jefferson, and Franklin of the Declaration Committee, the insult of the serial offenses by the Crown set America ablaze from a possession to a great nation.

stopthefoodtax
stopthefoodtax

@noblefurrtexas May your all your descendents be at least half Hispanic.  Karma likes doing things like that.  Plus Hispanics are very lovable people. 

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@stopthefoodtax ... good thing that people aren't ADDICTED to plastic grocery bags they way they are to cigarettes, eh?



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