Uber and Lyft Are Being Accused of Redlining Again, But Is That Actually Happening?

Categories: City Hall

lyftmap.jpg
Lyft's coverage area.
Even though the new, techie transportation services can often be cheaper than cabs, city officials like to accuse the apps of discriminating against people who live in poor areas.

Most recently, Councilwoman Vonciel Jones Hill concluded yesterday's transportation meeting by sharing a story about a person who tried to get picked up by a ride-share service. But the prospective customer was unsuccessful. The transportation vendor, she said, rejected the person because of where they were located.

"That to me is redlining," she said. "I, frankly, am tired of being redlined for any service."

Hill did not name which service it was. So it's not clear if she realized that the ride-share services in Dallas are fairly open about where they go and don't go.

Lyft, an inexpensive ride-share app, for example, clearly marks its "Coverage Area" on its website with a square on a map of Dallas -- a square that covers some of southern Dallas but more of the north. Still, Lyft's perimeter around the city is fairly small, also avoiding the suburbs and the airport. It's marked "hot zones," or its busiest spots, are the neighborhoods known for attracting young drinkers with some disposable income -- Uptown, Oak Lawn, Deep Ellum, the Design District and Lower Greenville.

(Asked after the meeting if she was aware of Lyft's designated coverage area, she only said, "Thank you for that information.")

It's not the first time that city officials have accused the alternative services of discrimination. In October, two prominent southern Dallas pastors publicly said that Uber was disenfranchising poor southern Dallas customers by only accepting credit cards. "That means black car service is out of reach for a number of our members since debit and prepaid cards may be their only credit cards," the pastors argued.

The taxicab industry stands to benefit the most from arguments that ride-share apps are redlining. That's because, under city law, cabs are supposed to provide service to all of the city, not just the spots where it's convenient. Limousines, on the other hand, can go anywhere they please under city regulations. And since private limo companies are what Uber mainly works with, that means that the Uber app is similarly able to dispatch drivers to wherever the company chooses.

As for the regular cars billed as "ride-shares," such as Lyft, there aren't any laws on the books yet, much less laws governing where they can and can't go.

Uber, on the other hand, actually offers three types of services -- black limo cars, SUVs, or regular car ride-shares through uber X, the company's answer to Lyft.

Uber's map shows a much broader coverage area than Lyft, extending far into the suburbs, the airport and southern Dallas.

But what about low-income areas? Would someone be able to arrange a ride through any of Uber's services from, say, Pleasant Grove? "Yes, they would be able to but that's on the fringe of our service area and so ETAs may be longer," explains Uber Dallas General Manager Leandre Johns in an email. "When anyone writes in and asks about pickups from fringe areas we just let them know to allow a bit more time when making their request. "

According to price quotes on Uber's website, a ride via uber X from Pleasant Grove to downtown Dallas costs anywhere from $18 to $24.


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111 comments
usmcjohn1148
usmcjohn1148

stew21451 looks like yellow cab is paying you to bash uber the fact is the cab business is this city is a monlopoly and that monopoly is funded my lining the pockets of our city officials by the only game in town I hope uber stays in business and shows that the better man and woman will win quit whining and get back in your cab stew and go make some money

stew21451
stew21451

Congress Just Started Caring About the Sharing Economy

http://m.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2014/01/congress-just-started-caring-about-sharing-economy/8119/

Most of the coming policy battles over what kind of auto insurance ride-sharing companies need, or what kind of taxes an Airbnb host ought to pay, will take place at the local and state level. But as companies like Sidecar and Airbnb push for recognition as something more than a niche oddity – as something crucial to the economy at large – it's noteworthy that part of Congress has begun to pay attention.

Top image courtesy of car2go.

stew21451
stew21451

ok just so that I understand you correctly?

Because we live in age where appsters can engage in predatory business practices using the technology, and in doing so entice indie drivers to operate illegaly outside of the rules that every one else are compelled to operate under, then I am NOT entitled to participate in the discourse because you say so?

And because I have an opinion and am not a beneficiary of the industry I am the schill? Oh puleez thow doth protest too much to not be a partisan?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOnRHAyXqYY

baduserexperience
baduserexperience

The taxi companies will never be accused of redlining because their service sucks citywide.

stew21451
stew21451

when I came aboard means what? you made serious allegations of corruption involving public officials both salaried and elected, all I ask is that you prove it?

On the other hand I made the argument that these indie operators cannot get insurance for their operations. Suppose you google uber lyft insurance and see what pops up?

Ergo they are not in compliance but are illegal operators. Its really that simple.

stew21451
stew21451

PROVE IT

stew21451 yeah, im saying yellow cab is, or more specifically Irving Holdings has the city in its pocket.  ANd yes they do write the rules, see the AC Gonzales story a few weeks back where the lawyer from Yellow sent him the exact wording for the ordinance he was trying to sneak through to ban Uber.  Go try to start a cab company and get licensed to run in the city.  You cant, why bc Irving holdings holds all the permits, and the city wont issue any more.  Your arguments fly in the face of everything known about how the city of Dallas and its cab operator work.  And yellow wasnt even compliant, maintaining self insurance when the ordinance they crafted said that was not allowable.  Would like some more of your statements debunked

stew21451
stew21451

In the sharing economy as it currently stands, it’s the users who bear the risk as the leading companies shelter themselves from responsibility.

— San Francisco Chronicle

ThePosterFormerlyKnownasPaul
ThePosterFormerlyKnownasPaul topcommenter

' "That to me is redlining," she (Vonceil) said. "I, frankly, am tired of being redlined for any service." '


But she has no problems with a line being drawn on a map so that the majority of residents within the boundary drawn are African American.

stew21451
stew21451

there is no need for being so frustrated that you choose to use the f bomb. this isnt wolf o wall street after all (although uber et all have taken a page from the movie ot visa versa in how you have approached the free enterprise system)? you act like any cab company or limousine service has the cities they serve in pocket and write the rules they are compelled to operate under? thats preposterous. you see conspiracies where they do not exist and refuse to see laws rules and regulations long written down that every one is compelled to abide by, we call it equal protection under the law. just because there is new technology does not mean it is exempt from one hundred years of settled law.

they are compliant livery operations, they are every where, expect them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMzd40i8TfA

stew21451
stew21451

So? the city attorney, city code compliance officer, the chief of police, the rank and file, the airport police, the council mz hill every one is corrupt, out of step and just plain out to bamboozel every one else cause what? To out bamboozel every other city county and sate regulating authority from San Francisco to nYC Miami to Chicago when it comes to uber et al? The entire insurance industry?

Is that what you folks want the rest of us to accept?

You guys are full of yourselves.

stew21451
stew21451

No, I am not a taxi driver, nor am I a limousine driver, what I am is an individual who recognizes a predatory business practice when I see one and I have a right to speak it.

It would seem thats a problem for those who post ad hominem that does not address the facts, that Uber et al have promoted a clearly illegal scheme to deprive honest rank and file employees of compliant exisitng companies the right to work and earn a living. They submit to back ground checks. They pass drug screens. They make vehicles available for safety inspections, and they apply for and obtain permits prior to taking to the streets. And the companies have LIVERY INSURANCE that the illegal operators cannot claim to have.

In every single example I quote here the appsters do not, and unless and until such time as the indie operators who are part and parcel of this predatory business practice come into compliance they are liable under the law for prosecution, fines and other legal actions for economic damages.

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin topcommenter

@stew21451 you are a dumb twit, not one link that you have posted has anything to do with how Uber is handled in Dallas.  It seems you are not even educated as to what has happened in Dallas with Uber so until you choose to figure that out, adios mofo

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin topcommenter

@stew21451 Great comeback, really.  I told you, now, go to the top right corner of this website, click in the little search box, type in Uber and all you need to know has been laid out here in links to all the stories written here.  Oh and welcome to Unfair Park, I noticed this is the only story you've ever commented on here, seriously, go read the rest of them posted here.

ThePosterFormerlyKnownasPaul
ThePosterFormerlyKnownasPaul topcommenter

@stew21451 

And are you surprised at this?  The business model for years has been to externalize your risks and internalize your rewards.


For example, see QE, QE1, QE2, QE3, ...

WhyDontYouJoinNAMBLA
WhyDontYouJoinNAMBLA

@stew21451  I understand that since you do not actually live in Texas, let alone Dallas you would have no idea what you are talking about. However, there are former Dallas officials sitting in prison right now for taking bribes from cab companies. 


So please: STFU already with this shill nonsense. 

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin topcommenter

@stew21451 yeah, im saying yellow cab is, or more specifically Irving Holdings has the city in its pocket.  ANd yes they do write the rules, see the AC Gonzales story a few weeks back where the lawyer from Yellow sent him the exact wording for the ordinance he was trying to sneak through to ban Uber.  Go try to start a cab company and get licensed to run in the city.  You cant, why bc Irving holdings holds all the permits, and the city wont issue any more.  Your arguments fly in the face of everything known about how the city of Dallas and its cab operator work.  And yellow wasnt even compliant, maintaining self insurance when the ordinance they crafted said that was not allowable.  Would like some more of your statements debunked

WhyDontYouJoinNAMBLA
WhyDontYouJoinNAMBLA

@stew21451  "nor am I a limousine driver"


But you are a liar. 


“As well-intentioned as this program is, it’s a lot of information to take in all at once,” said Stewart Resmer, a limousine driver and Wayne resident. “I’m not sure a lot of people know what to do when they see a Silver Alert.” - See more at: http://www.northjersey.com/glenrock/Do_Be_on_the_lookout_Silver_Alert_warnings_work.html?page=1#sthash.DeFSCzd5.dpuf


Resident Stewart Resmer recruited the hotels and is attempting to arrange for free van transportation by local car dealerships for the patients and their medical equipment.

"If the power were to go off, you and I might get inconvenienced but other people might go critical fast," said Resmer, a 49-year-old limousine driver. Those needing assistance in a blackout should call (310) 655-5790 "and we will get people there," he said.

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/jan/26/local/me-17261


Maybe Wendy Davis needs a campaign helper?

Tipster1908
Tipster1908

@stew21451 you are conflating Uber (legal) with UberX and Lyft (illegal). Uber is a service providing registered, licensed drivers and cars. It exists within the city's existing limo regulations.

pak152
pak152

@stew21451I imagine that since this is new potential business one or more insurance companies will find a way to produce a product that provides appropriate insurance protection for uber/lyft/whatever drivers. Free market hates a vacuum, but loves making money.

stew21451
stew21451

Do you honestly think that Dalls is the center of the universe? This debate is going on across the nation, the concept of 'We are compliant, we are legion, we are every where, expect us', sound vaguley familiar?

If you or anyone else thinks that some how an industry that has been around for 100 years and more is suddenly going to stand idle as the likes of you bust off into the market place by exempting yourself from the rules and regulations every one else is compelled to abide by, well lest just say the joke will be on you.

The livery industry pays it taxes and expects representation and they can be counted on to flex their influence at the local, county, state, and federal levels and will force you in to compliance by regulation, or court orders.

Which may well be a nationwide class action  where every single solitary indie driver will be named as a co defendant.

Mark you well my words.

stew21451
stew21451

Do you honestly think that Dalls is the center of the universe? This debate is going on across the nation, the concept of 'We are compliant, we are legion, we are every where, expect us', sound vaguley familiar?

If you or anyone else thinks that some how an industry that has been around for 100 years and more is suddenly going to stand idle as the likes of you bust off into the market place by exempting yourself from the rules and regulations every one else is compelled to abide by, well lest just say the joke will be on you.

The livery industry pays it taxes and expects representation and they can be counted on to flex their influence at the local, county, state, and federal levels and will force you in to compliance by regulation, or court orders.

Which may well be a nationwide class action  where every single solitary indie driver will be named as a co defendant.

Mark you well my words.

stew21451
stew21451

ok just so that I understand you correctly?

Because we live in age where appsters can engage in predatory business practices using the technology, and entice indie drivers to operate illegaly outside of the rules that every one else are compelled to operate under, then I am NOT entitled to participate in the discourse because you say so?

And because I have an opinion and am not a beneficiary of the industry I am the schill? Oh puleez thow doth protest too much to not be a partisan?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOnRHAyXqYY

stew21451
stew21451

Off yer ADD meds again I see? this is the Uber?Lyft red lining thread.

stew21451
stew21451

okay then please? have some one simply produce their state county or local permit # to operate under which insurance policy issued by which carrier, be that Uber or Lfyt?

Fair question doncha think?

Tipster1908
Tipster1908

@pak152 @stew21451 the market will eventually provide it, the question is whether the price for a policy with the limits the government mandates will still make driving for these services viable. based on an admittedly small sample size, I'd guess that Lyft and UberX drivers will work a lot harder for a lot less money once they pay the correct insurance rates. right now, most probably look at the insurance as a sunk cost because they're paying it for their personal travel anyways. the fares are in effect "free money" other than the gas and wear and tear. once the insurance cost is internalized, that is unlikely to be true

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin topcommenter

@stew21451 you are commenting on a dallas blog about a dallas specific story.  Each city handles uber differently.  Dallas cab service is shitty.  Uber is not, Ill use Uber.  It just so happens that I pay attention to what goes on at city hall and everyone who pays any attention knows that yellow cab in dallas is behind trying to keep Uber out.  

WhyDontYouJoinNAMBLA
WhyDontYouJoinNAMBLA

@stew21451  You like filing frivolous class action suits, don't you?


http://domainnamewire.com/2010/02/05/judge-says-snapnames-lawsuit-might-be-too-small-for-class-action/


How many are there? Is that how you make a living these days? No more bus driving so you just troll companies for settlements?


The real question is though: Why is a guy from New Jersey making so many comments on a Dallas news website (and so many others) about this issue?


Evidently, Dallas IS the center of the universe to you. 

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin topcommenter

@stew21451 bc yellow cab doesnt want the competition, holy fuck, are you that dense?

stew21451
stew21451

why then has the council appointed a sub committee to come to a consenus about the predatory intrusion? Because eveything is hunky dory?

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin topcommenter

@stew21451 Uber black cars are licensed limo drivers with correct insurance, and proper airport stickers, please stop confusing uberX and lyft with Uber.  you are doing this intentionally, and if you are not, then stop now and learn the difference

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