America's Need for Immigration Reform Is on Display at a Graduation Ceremony Near You

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Yesterday when my wife, son and I were driving back from Lubbock, the news on my tablet told me that Phyllis Schlafly, president of the Eagle Forum, Judson Phillips, founder of Tea Party Nation, and Tea Party leaders in 25 states had released an open letter urging congress to dump its immigration reform effort. The story couldn't have been more ironic, given what we had just witnessed at Texas Tech University.

The main force driving an ultimate Republican/Democratic compromise in the Senate Judiciary Committee was America's need for highly skilled immigrants. A few years ago, when I did a long piece on immigration reform, people told me America was getting toasted in the international competition for skilled immigrants.

See also:
Thanks a Bunch, IRS. Now We Gotta Respect the Tea Party -- a Little Bit.

For years now business leadership in America has been at the very leading edge of that argument, urging that we can't stay competitive in the new global economy unless we can recruit top foreign talent. We can't recruit those talented individuals unless we can change our laws to guarantee them a stable predictable immigration status when they get here, which we cannot do now.

We were honored and privileged to attend the graduation ceremony for the Texas Tech Medical School on Monday, which was, for the most part, an appropriately solemn affair. Watching a med school graduation in this country is like watching a bunch of people return safe and sound from some combination of war, natural disaster and Harry Potter. You can't believe they're all still alive, let alone smiling.

But one part of the ceremony was not somber at all; in fact made me so happy I laughed out loud. Salted through the crowd of mainly American-born brand-new doctors were lots of graduates who were either foreign-born or first-generation. Family members of graduates who themselves held the title of doctor, either as physicians, lawyers or Ph.D.s, were able to come onstage in their academic regalia and assist in the ceremony.

You could barely see some Indian and Asian graduates because they had so many doctors up there on stage with them helping them on with the hoods that signified they were now doctors, too. In many of those cases, an even bigger contingent of family and friends in the peanut gallery exploded in the kind of jubilant cheers and applause you'd expect to hear at the Olympics.

It made me proud of my country, because at some point I realized this was the Olympics of life, the Olympics of success in the world, success in America. What says more about the value and grandeur of our country than these brilliant people from the far corners of the planet cheering their hearts out because now we're going to allow them to serve us as physicians?

What tells us more about Phyllis Schlafly, the Eagle Forum or the Tea Party than their desperate attempt to derail comprehensive immigration reform just as it finally gets some real purchase in congress? These people are not conservatives. Calling them that degrades the word itself. Nor are they patriots. I don't think they even know what's great about this country.

These are a bunch of worn-out, used-to-be has-beens, the people who used to have it all in this country mainly because somebody handed it to them, terrified of competition. That fear of competition runs deeper than anything else in them, deeper even than simple racism or xenophobia. They know in their guts they can't hold on in a fair fight.

But if the fight for top ranks in this country is not fair and open, this country will sink to the bottom of the global ladder. That's one big reason responsible business leaders have joined hands with top labor and religious leaders to fight for comprehensive immigration reform.

The Eagle Forum and the Tea Party offer us nothing on this issue but shame and fear. The raucous joyous outbursts I heard at the Lubbock Civic Center Monday offered the real gold medal. Those cheers said, "Nothing makes us prouder than making it in America." I'll take that ribbon any day.



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87 comments
roadsidecouch
roadsidecouch

"You could barely see some Indian and Asian graduates because they had so many doctors up there on stage with them helping them on with the hoods that signified they were now doctors, too. "

Indian and Asians are usually legal immigrants.  Usually sons and daughters of skilled H1B visa holders or green card holders.

NOWiGETit
NOWiGETit

Aw, hey!  Schutze and Ann Coulter agree on something!

CristoListo
CristoListo

The movers and shakers in this nation wanted cheap labor and now they have plenty. So, why are they now complaining? Let the good times keep rolling. http://t.co/UWK2eTxMIr

WatchingSouthDetroit
WatchingSouthDetroit

It sounds like these doctors and others would be LEGAL immigrants - those who don't sneak over the border.  I am the son of LEGAL immigrants who filled out the forms, got the approvals, and waited for their time.  My parents did NOT sneak over the border and start demanding stuff.  My parents and grandparents always paid their bills and my dad did his turn in the army.  It would be an injustice to them and to the millions of LEGAL immigrants to just do a hand wave and legalize those who broke the laws.  Go back and apply to come in like millions of legal immigrants did.

roo_ster
roo_ster

Yeah, I hate those women like Phyllis Schlafly who bust their hump and work their way to the top of their professions.  While raising six kids.  I much rather like the women like Hillary Clinton, who marry a man more talented and charismatic than they, and then use his slime trail to slide into positions of influence.


Myrna.Minkoff-Katz
Myrna.Minkoff-Katz topcommenter

Phyllis Schlafly.  That rotten old gay-hating hagfish from the seventies. 

davej.francis
davej.francis

BILL MAY HAVE PASSED SENATE MARK-UP AND MAY PASS THE WHOLE SENATE, BUT THEN THEY HAVE THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TO CONTEND WITH?THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL FIGHT IT TO THE END?

IT’S NOT OVER TILL ITS OVER?

No illegal alien need to be jumping up and down, because the bill has not reached the house yet. There is a lot of doubt that the Senate bill (S.477) will pass, simply because the overconfident Democrats, plus a few Republicans rejected a large and major proportion of the amendments?The “TRIGGERS” which was a major part of the amendments as an intricate extent ion of the bill fell on deaf ears and rejected. All of the PEOPLE’S reputable Senator as Jeff Sessions (R-Ala) amendments, with the similar voice of Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) that they forecast it will be killed in the House. The law may have been approved, but now it must pass public scrutiny, especially when they realize they are the ones paying for all these criminal aliens, seeking lawful status. THERE ARE MANY HURDLES FOR POLITICIANS TO JUMP BEFORE THE DRAFT BECOMES LAW, UNLESS CORRUPTION ENTERS INTO THE PASSAGE OF THE BILL. THEY ARE BEING INTENSELY UNDER SCRUTINY AND IF THEY MAKE THE WRONG MOVE, WILL BE VOTED OUT OF OFFICE, IN THE PRIMARIES AND FUTURE ELECTIONS. THE MEMORY OF THE PEOPLE WILL NOT BE DENIED.

THERE IS NO REAL SAFEGUARD FOR AMERICANS, AGAINST RISING TAXES.

Already uproar has sprung up, as it can be viewed in the thousands of commentaries, letters and other means of written communication in both the Liberal and Conservative press. The American people have watched on C-Span this judiciary immigration mark-up committee and are extremely irate with the disappointment because they have no voice in this important matter. Now they are ready to verbally kill the Senators and House Representatives who better find shelter. The word is out and I guarantee the faxes and phone calls are going to ricochet of the walls of their offices, while more Stewart advocates will appear at their office doors.

The pro-sovereignty, less-immigration groups are the avenue for the outrage, where citizens and even legal residents can contact the politicians that have compromised the foundations of our laws, as drafted in the U.S. Constitution. The faxes are open at NumbersUSA, the Tea Party and other E-organizations, that are mobilizing new member-activists. Around the country there is a fighting stance as the Tea Party realizes they were targeted by the IRS, because of their ideology. If they haven’t already discovered that there is a toll-free-- 1-888-978-3094-- they can use to contact their U.S. Senator and the House Reps.

1. The reintroduction of the 2006 Secure Fence Act, which was to be complete the 700 mile double layered fencing was voted down.

2. Stopping the gross IRS incompetence of illegal alien parents fraudulently collecting child tax credits on a massive scale. The IRS agency neglecting to prosecute foreign nationals, who by design are stealing taxpayer dollars of upwards of 7 billion a year, was also rejected. A low-income family (illegal aliens) with two kids can receive up to $5,372 in tax credit, even exceeding the amount they pay in taxes, even if they pay NOTHING.

3. Business owners since the 1986 thought they were above the law and hired illegal aliens with great financial rewards. Even though E-Verify for employers to detect unauthorized labor, it is not going to be fully operation nationwide for another 18 months.

4. For worse than anything else supplied in the reform bill, is illegal aliens can still collect welfare and public entitlements.

5. The Democrats also defeated a measure by Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley that would have barred members of street gangs from the proposed amnesty.

6. Democrats defeated a Sessions amendment that would have given enforcement agencies some of the federal money given to so-called “sanctuary cities”

IN THIS IMMIGRATION REFORM LAW ONLY ILLEGAL ALIENS GAIN SPECIAL BENEFITS AND BUSINESS OWNERS. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL HAVE NO CHOICE, BUT TO PAY FOR THE NEWLY RECOGNIZED LAWFUL RESIDENTS AND THEIR FAMILIES. THIS IS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG OF AMENDMENTS REJECTED, THAT THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION WARNED US ABOUT. THIS IS FORTHCOMING GIGANTIC DILEMMA IN THE FORM OF TAXES FROM THE GANG OF EIGHT AND OTHER SENATORS.

TheCredibleHulk
TheCredibleHulk topcommenter

As long as the bankers keep on getting bailed out by their republican buddies, what difference does it make?

CornyDoggy
CornyDoggy

Myth: Illegal immigrants drain social services

Fact: Illegal immigrants can't avoid paying  property and sales taxes, and most are on a payroll which means they pay payroll and income taxes.  Yet they don't get any tax credits and don't qualify for most social services.  Even if they do qualify, they tend to avoid government services for fear of deportation.

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/cea/cea_immigration_062007.html

http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic803549.files/Week%209-November%203/Smith_Future.pdf

santeeastco
santeeastco

This is WHY we have idiots in Congress trying to reward criminals in our country with citizenship! It is because of the idiots that believe this op-ed's fairytale of "American competitiveness" continuing from only those outside of our country, and  are without enough common sense to rub two pennies together. Let's get this straight - in California - we have Chancellor's actually congratulating illegals that are taking up spots in our University's away from citizens of our own state and country - for getting away with graduating with degrees on the taxpayer's dime. Which is fine by them as long as their universities get the tax BRIBE $ to operate and pay themselves their 6 figure salaries PLUS bonuses PLUS benefits PLUS pensions. The hell with the fact that they are accessories to rewarding criminal behavior, right? Here's an idea - MAYBE if the slots were given to AMERICANS - then AMERICANS would receive the education necessary to keep our country's economy and competitiveness alive! 

Do not fall for the pretend self righteous indignation of the supposed "conservative" name being mangled by the TEA Party or those "racists" that happen to believe that amnesty in 1986 led to the fiasco of what we are dealing with right now. REAL Americans, concerned about the future of their country - do not believe that the corrupt, lowlife, con artists, posing as "elected Representatives of the People" care one bit about securing our border, protecting our country, or enforcing our laws. THIS IS ABOUT POWER and keeping it for themselves, while stabbing every American CITIZEN and LEGAL IMMIGRANT in our country, right in the back. 

I find these people posting on third party establishment Facebook pages, disguised as GOP or Republican or Conservative groups, trying to convince Republican voters that THIS is how "we" are now! They will throw out the words Republican and Conservative as they swoon over the inclusiveness "right" of illegal immigrants to have FAIRNESS and SOCIAL JUSTICE. Where is the social justice for the American citizens and the legal immigrants that followed every law and regulation in order to live and work in our country, we are the people EXPECTED TO PAY ALL THE BILLS OF THIS NIGHTMARE IDEA OF AMNESTY??? 

The Marco Rubio's, John McCain's, Paul Ryan's, the cry baby Boehner's  and the rest of these RINO third party establishment types made their deal with their cronies in D.C. Why else would a REPUBLICAN want to bring in millions of high school dropouts, from third world countries with socialist governments, knowing that 90% of them will become registered DEMOCRATS????

Montemalone
Montemalone topcommenter

It's so much easier to be illegal.

No lines.

No paperwork.

No need to learn English.

No driver's license required.

No insurance required.

No inspection required, just by a sticker at the flea market.

And , you get to ignore any other laws you find inconvenient.

Sure, you work cheap, in jobs for which most people would demand higher wages, but that suits capitalists just fine. Besides, all the money you save not having to deal with all the stuff legal residents have to deal with makes it a wash.

Americano
Americano

What most Conservatives want are LEGAL IMMIGRANTS.  Assuming that these students are anything but, is racist.  Again the most racist people in America are Liberals.  Let's keep the immigrants on the Plantation, right?  Most countries that intend on surviving allow legal immigrants with skills into their country, and don't allow in people who will be a drag on the economy and add to the crime statistics, first of which would be illegally entering the country.

roo_ster
roo_ster

Wow, who would have thought JimS would side with billionaire businessmen over regular folks?  

Because the H1B & tech worker portions of the bill are essentially a Tech Billionaire Wealth Protection Act.  It lets a whole bunch of H1B indentured servant workers come in and work at wages below what would be prevailing had not the tech billionaires used the power of gov't to short-circuit the labor market. 

Oh, well, this isn't the first time JimS put on his kneepads to give oral pleasure to the powerful while the powerful slap around the not-so-powerful.

red.marcy.rand
red.marcy.rand

A very stupid op-ed. Of course employers want the cheapest possible labor, you tard ! That's what all the PC diversity imbecilic blather is all about. No Americans can't compete with Third World wage slave labor. 

Idiots like you are promoting a race to the bottom and that's nothing to be proud of. Read The Great Deformation:The Corruption Of Capitalism In America by David A. Stockman.

MikeWestEast
MikeWestEast

What does seeing a bunch of non-white graduates have to do with the Immigration Reform effort? How did you ascertain they were not citizens, not here on valid visas and not here per rules of INS? Isn't what you did profiling? I would hazard to guess that the Venn diagram of children of doctors in Mexico sneaking across the border through the Gila Desert to complete medical school in the US is a very small area. Once again, a thrown together column containing as many hot buzz words to get a response with minimal effort. Well done!

ThePosterFormerlyKnownasPaul
ThePosterFormerlyKnownasPaul topcommenter

"For years now business leadership in America has been at the very leading edge of that argument, urging that we can't stay competitive in the new global economy unless we can recruit top foreign talent. We can't recruit those talented individuals unless we can change our laws to guarantee them a stable predictable immigration status when they get here, which we cannot do now."

Jim, this is a red herring if there ever was one.  Currently the H1b program is authorized at 300,000 visas per year.  Foreign graduate students are allowed to remain in the country and work for up to 2 years after graduation.

If you are concerned about the lack of top talent, especially in technical fields, ask yourself why American citizens are not going to these fields.  My opinion is that the supply of foreign talent suppresses wages in the market, the H1b visa requirements effectively shackles the visa holder to a single employer; and, at the graduate level, the students are treated as nothing more than slave labor who are willing to put up with an open ended program in order to obtain not only an H1b visa, but a permanent residency card.

Some reports indicate that the foreign students in American universities and colleges actually contribute to a lack of diversity.

Immigration reform should not be confused with border control.  As it is, approximately 10% of the Republic of Mexico population currently resides and works in the US without authorization.  This exodus of population from Mexico clearly demonstrates that the current Mexican regime is supported and propped up by the US when we do not control our borders.  The civil situation in Mexico would be vastly different if this migration were to be stopped.

Besides, our government promised us in the 1986 immigration reform that there would be employment verification and enforcement of border security.

BarackObummer
BarackObummer

Yo our enemies is innovative an' resourceful, an' so is we's. dey never stop thinkin` 'boutnew ways ta harm our country an' our broddars, an' neither do we's. Sho 'nuff!

PrestonHoller
PrestonHoller

Jim, if you would actually bother to read the very article you cited to, you’d easily find out that the Tea Partiers are NOT opposed to immigration reform.  Instead, they are merely opposed to a specific immigration bill that is only a misguided attempted to gin votes rather than actual immigration reform.  A few quotes from the article you cite:


 “No matter how well-intentioned, the Schumer-Rubio bill suffers from fundamental design flaws that make it unsalvageable,” the letter reads. “Many of us support various parts of the legislation, but overall package is so unsatisfactory that the Senate would do better to start over from scratch.” 

Among other objections cited in the letter is a plan to grant legal status to an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants before the border with Mexico is secure. The bipartisan bill, the signers said, "rewards lawbreakers," hurts Americans in search of work, and threatens to “bankrupt our already strained entitlement system.”

“Reforming our immigration system is an important priority.," the letter said. "But S.744 is such a defective measure that it would do more harm than good.”


That’s right, Jim.  If you actually bothered to read things, you’d find that these Tea Partiers are in favor of real reform but are only against specific misguided pieces of legislation that do more harm than good.


Frankly, your little warm fuzzy story about medical school graduation is stupid and disingenuous. None of the Tea Parties are against relaxing immigration laws to allow highly educated individuals immigrating here and making a contribution to our society.  What they are against is allowing 11 million (!) illegal immigrants, many (if not most) of who are low skilled to continue to suck the life out of our tax system.  Let’s face it, this is merely an attempt by the Democrats to legalize these people in the hopes that throwing a bunch of welfare goodies will transform them into life long Democratic voters.  That’s what the Tea Parties are against.

What I find ironic is that your little happy story talks about how only family members of new graduates who had doctorates were allowed on stage to assist with the ceremony.  How pathetically elitist of Texas Tech.  Only “doctors” were allowed on stage.  Why exclude all the family members who are migrant workers?  Why exclude all those who earn minimum wage?  How about allowing some of those 11 million illegals who can’t find a job and desperately need Obama’s freebies on stage tojoin in with the ceremony?  Apparently, these people aren’t worthy enough in Tech’s eyes to be on stage.  And Jim Schutze, champion of the little man, is busting out in joy over this exclusion.

CornyDoggy
CornyDoggy

@keeponkeepinitdown 

So after you complained about being cyber-stalked by "liberal fascists" the other day, you don't see the similarity?

Also, wanna chime in on the video released today showing the Montague Co. police officer being shot?  

Myrna.Minkoff-Katz
Myrna.Minkoff-Katz topcommenter

@roo_ster Schlafly is a malignant, filthy, ugly, dry-rotted pig, with a squalid attitude towards any human being unlike herself. 

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@roo_ster

if by the phrase "work their way to the top of their professions" you mean Schlafly being a media whore who labels anyone who doesn't look like her, think like her, or believes in the same religious theories, as being "unamerican", "anti-american", or "unpatriotic", then yes, you are right, she she is at the "top of her profession".

btw, the voters in New York elected Hillary Clinton a US Senator because Hillary Clinto ran a very good campaign, and Hillary Clinton echoed their views, her election had zero to do with Bill.

weezwas2001
weezwas2001

@davej.francis Nah, I still think the idea of a moat makes more sense than a fence. Put a few restaurants along it, maybe a gondola or two and it could become a real Dwaine Caraway wet dream come true!

WatchingSouthDetroit
WatchingSouthDetroit

Who pays the bill when they go to Parkland?  Its not the illegals because several years ago, Parkland tried to bill the Mexican consulate for millions in unpaid bills.  The consulate laughed at them so the rest of us LEGAL citizens ended up paying.

Daniel
Daniel

@BarackObummer Oh ha ha, I think that's just hilarious! You've captured EXACTLY the patois of the sons of African foreign nationals raised by single white American moms in Hawaii.  You really should teach sociological linguistics, you'd be the best (and wittiest) professor ever. 

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@PrestonHoller

so to paraphrase, "Tea Party folk want immigration reform, as long as it doesn't allow any illegal immigrant to stay in the US". wow, that surely sets the Tea Party as wanting "reform" and setting immigration reform "as an important priority"!!! you really cleared that up!

illegal residents do not "suck the life out of our tax system", almost any credible study shows these illegal residents pay much more in taxes than they receive in benefits. after all, they do not get a single dollar in entitlements such as SS, medicaid, etc. they pay property taxes and sales taxes, and many pay federal taxes to an account they will never be able to be paid from (false SS number).

as for the uninformed slam on the Tech ceremony, it is a tradition in higher education stretching back a few centuries that only "hooded" people, i.e. those who have been awarded a Doctorate, participate in the ceremony of new Doctorates. It is far from "elitist", the tradition honors those who have acheived, and allows them to connect with the next generation.

James080
James080

@PrestonHoller 

You can't really argue that Schumer-Rubio "rewards lawbreakers." Illegal aliens hoping to achieving citizenship under the bill will have a decade wait, will be required to pay fines and back taxes, and will be required to provide documentation I'm not even sure I could produce for myself proving residency.  In fact, the hoops in the legislation seem designed to weed out  most of the illegal population. Now, let's not lose sight of the fact that fully 1/3 of current illegal aliens are students, or former students overstaying their visas. The reality is that Schumer-Rubio is a good starting point for reform, with border security and a guest worker program needing more refinement.

RTGolden1
RTGolden1 topcommenter

@PrestonHoller"What they are against is allowing 11 million (!) illegal immigrants, many (if not most) of who are low skilled to continue to suck the life out of our tax system. "  Except, during the 12 years under the Bush tax cuts, in which the middle class enjoyed enormous subsidies in the form of tax breaks for education, home ownership, business expenses, etc., it was payroll taxes that underwrote the whole system.  At the state and local level, property, sales, fuel and commodity, and 'vice' taxes nicely filled in the blanks.  The illegals might have escaped the payroll tax penalty, but they could not escape the state and local taxes.  

Where the life gets sucked out of the tax system is in the middle and upper class taking huge tax breaks, corporations paying almost zero taxes through creative math and dodgey paperwork.

Want to fix the tax system?  Set the tax rates at fair levels, eliminate all exemptions/deductions, then get control of spending.  don't just blame it all on illegals, if you deport all 11 million of them, someone will still have to do that work, and YOU still won't want to pay much for the work to be done.  The situation will stay the same.

danielj.mcgraw
danielj.mcgraw

@PrestonHoller@PrestonHoller The problem I have with the tea partiers and any other term you want to throw out there, is that they are very good at saying what they don't like, but very limited in saying what they do like. In this case, they say reforming immigration is an "important priority" but they give very few details on how they would reform it. Do they only want to allow in immigrants that have a PhD? A limit on numbers? Some countries yes, others no? What to do with the children of those who are here illegally? No specifics. Romney said he was against Obama's health care reform but indicated pre-existing condition policies were something that should be dealt with. But he seemed afraid to offer any details for fear of pissing off the fringe of his party who think any change is bad. So all he said is "Obamacare is bad, but I don't have any specifics to improve our health care system." I don't mind listening to people who oppose an idea or legislation or policy change I support, but please, come up with real alternatives. Because otherwise you folks come off as people who pretty much hate everything, and in the long run, you will be disregarded by reasonable people and out of the discussion over time. 

roo_ster
roo_ster

@mavdog Baloney.  No one would ever have heard of Hillary had it not been for Bill Clinton.  She would be just another mid-level bureaucritter and/or activist.  Someone who reported to the likes of Jaimie Gorelick.

As for Schlafly, she succeeded in her signature political cause, stopping the ERA.  Hillary, not so much (HillaryCare).  Schlafly was a successful lawyer without having a hubby as governor.  Schlafly has substance, whereas Hillary is coattails all the way.  Heck, she couldn't even beat a lightweight 1st term Senator from Illinois for the nomination.

Hillary ought to be used to doing scutwork for men more talented and charismatic than she.

TheCredibleHulk
TheCredibleHulk topcommenter

@CornyDoggy @TheCredibleHulk 

LOL

Just playing on the "birth-control" posts by JohnWileyPrice. Unfortunately, Lyvefyre won't let me like my own posts and I don't have a sock-puppet to use to do so.

CornyDoggy
CornyDoggy

@WatchingSouthDetroit 

Taxpayers pay the bill.  They are taxpayers.  They contribute more tax $ than they consume from govt. services (like Parkland).  Make sense?

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@watchingSouthDetroit

Parkland receives about 1/3 of its revenue from property taxes, and anyone who owns a house or pays rent puts $ into Parkland thru the property taxes paid. that would include everyone, be they US citizen, legal resident or illegal resident.

PrestonHoller
PrestonHoller

@James080  Accroding to the Dept of Homeland Security (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States), Mexico alone accounts for 2/3 of the illegal immigrants in the US.  When you add Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador, that shoots up to 75%. I highly doubt your allegation of  1/3 of illegal immigrants are over staying student visas.  But let's assume its true.  That means about 8 million illegals are NOT simply students overstaying visas.  That is a HUGE problem.  And let's face it.  The majority of the problem is our insecure border with Mexico.

Border security isn't in need of more "refinement."  It needs a complete fix.  Granting citizenship to all those already here is going to give additional incentives to others to try and hop the border.  

Again, you Liberals are completely ignoring what everyone else knows.  The Democrats are trying to push these half ass fixes so they can get 11.1 million new Democratic voters.  

PrestonHoller
PrestonHoller

@RTGolden1 So, you think tax rates are not a fair levels?

"The 10% of households with the highest incomes pay more than half of all federal taxes. They pay more than 70% of federal income taxes, according to theCongressional Budget Office."http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/story/2011-09-20/buffett-tax-millionaires/50480226/1

Granted this only Federal Taxes but still, come on.  The top 10% pay half of all federal taxes and 70% of income taxes, and you claim they should be paying more?!  Are you sure you know what "fair" means?

PrestonHoller
PrestonHoller

@danielj.mcgrawYou have a somewhat fair criticism on Tea Partiers failing to offer specifics.  But I think they have been very clear in saying that our primary problem is a porous and insecure border that allows millions of illegal aliens into the country, and that this should be locked down first.  Why is it impossible for Democrats to get behind this?  Could it be that they love the idea of low income Hispanics continuing to vote Democratic in exchange for Democrats turning a blind eye to the indisputable cause to the problem?

Moreover, it seems that Democrats’ standard mode of operation is to identify a problem and offer an abundance of expensive programs that do nothing to address the real problem, tack on some free goodies to constituents, and then claim that an opposition is based on racism.  Jim article asserts that we need to be attracting more PhDs into the country.  OK.  Let’s allow a higher number of highly educated individuals in and address the issue of granting amnesty to millions of uneducated illegals to a separate debate?  

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@roo_ster

interesting that you call Schlafly "a successful lawyer" when Schlafly never was a practicing attorney nor a member of a law firm. Hillary Clinton on the other hand was a staff attorney for The Children's Defense Fund,  an attorney working with the House Judiciary Committee and on the faculty of the U of Arkansas Law School...all before marrying Bill. complete and total failure on your part....

What you call Schlafly's "substance" is better called "hubris".

as for "scutwork" comment, well, that just reveals your apparent chauvinism and misogyny. good job!

btw, that "lightweight 1st term Senator from Illinois" hasn't lost an election to anyone, democrat or republican. not accurately called a "lightweight" by any stretch of the term.

Montemalone
Montemalone topcommenter

@mavdog Except that's Dallas County taxpayers, and the customers come from Tarrant, Collin, Denton, Ellis. Kaufman, Rockwall, Johnson, Grayson, Cooke...

observist
observist topcommenter

@James080 @PrestonHoller Deporting 12 million?  No problem.  It's just a question of whether to do it before or after seizing 300 million guns from 80 million US households.

RTGolden1
RTGolden1 topcommenter

@James080 @PrestonHoller Don't try to explain classical liberalism or libertarianism on here.  People here have their own media-fed preconceived notions of what these terms mean and no amount of commons sense will sway them.  The double-labeling (neo-con to the lefties, progressive advocate to the righties) is something of a badge of honor for me.

James080
James080

@PrestonHoller@James080 

Somebody call Jim Schutze. Prestonholler just called me a LIBERAL (Schutze seems to thinks I'm a Tea Party Neo-Con right wing Aryan nation wacko). I suppose if you mean the classic definition of liberal, you're correct (One who favors individual voting rights, human and civil rights, individual gun rights and free markets). If you're associating me with Democrats and supporters of the progressive agenda, you don't have a clue.

Now, if you can figure out how to deport 12 million people, I'm willing to listen. If you know how to completely secure a 2,000 mile border, let's have some details. Otherwise, the only real solution to illegal immigration in the US is to imprison those US employers who hire them in the first place.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@rzimmerman1

unlike you. I read the report and can understand the methodology.

like I said above, not too difficult for some, very difficult for others.....

rzimmerman1
rzimmerman1

@mavdog But I'm sure you'll believe anything they say say without further investigation. Good little dog...

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@rzimmerman1

to "question" a report with the comment "most statistics are garbage" and not offer any insight, not one iota into why the report has defective conclusions, can in no way be accurately called "question[ing]" the work.

rzimmerman1
rzimmerman1

@mavdog You're absolutely right. Who am I to question the St. Louis Federal Reserve or the federal government or anything identifying itself as authority?

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@rzimmerman1

you are seriously questioning the methodology of the St. Louis Federal Reserve in their work on determining the household wealth of the USA?

"most statistics are garbage"???

wow. ostrich-like doesn't go far enough in describing your viewpoint....

rzimmerman1
rzimmerman1

@mavdog It must be true because it's on the internet! Please tell me that you've made it your life's work to study all the assumptions that were made when calculating the nation's wealth. Most statistics are garbage. For instance, did you know that the cost of energy is not counted when the government calculates the rate of inflation? That seems like big item to leave out...

RTGolden1
RTGolden1 topcommenter

@PrestonHoller @RTGolden1 I was going to ask you what percentage of national wealth the top 10%-ers control, but mavdog has politely filled that in for you.  again, a fair and equitable tax structure, eliminating deductions and exemptions for all, coupled with controlled spending and actual budgeting (instead of baseline services budgeting) are the only way to reign in our national debt.

rzimmerman1
rzimmerman1

@mavdog These statistics get repeated over and over, but what do they mean? How could anyone know what the "nation's total wealth" is? We only pay taxes on what we earn, what we buy and real estate we own. If I own an item that has appreciated over time, did that grow the national wealth? Did that take money out of someone's pocket? Should I have to pay somebody something? What is the "nation's total wealth"? What about the underground economy of unreported income, criminal activity, etc. How much wealth is there? Back to the tax question. If I make some money but pay nothing in income taxes, am I paying a fair amount? I don't think so.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@PrestonHoller

The top 1% own 34.5%  of the nation's total wealth. the top 10% control 74.5% of the nation's wealth.

the other half, the 50% on the lower income side, have 1.1% of the nation's wealth. conversely the top 50% have 98.9% of the nation's wealth.

so yes, the top 10% are currently not paying a fair amount of taxes relative to their wealth.

neither are corporations, as the hearings with Apple's CEO clearly shows.

danielj.mcgraw
danielj.mcgraw

@rzimmerman1 Sorry for the spelling error. My outsourced spell checker in India was washing clothes in the Ganges River while I wrote about "compromise." 

RTGolden1
RTGolden1 topcommenter

@rzimmerman1 A government that is beholden to one set of principles and core beliefs is not sitting over a free people, it is a dictatorship.  Read the founding fathers' writings and you'll find that compromise IS one of our core principles, not to mention the very reason the American Democracy has lasted as long as it has.

PrestonHoller
PrestonHoller

@danielj.mcgrawCompromise, eh?  The Democrats ask for the sun, the moon, and the stars and bitch when they don’t get all three because the meanie Republicans won’t compromise.

So, in that vein, he’s what I propose.  Let’s drop the corporate tax rates to 0%, drop the income tax rates for individuals making over $250,000 to 0%, and we increase the tax rates on those making less than $50,000 up to 95%.  Now, in the spirit of compromise, I willing to meet Liberals half way and have corporate rates and individuals making over $250,000 at 0%, while those making less than $50,000 a mere 50%. 

So come you Liberals, stop being obstructionist and compromise.

rzimmerman1
rzimmerman1

Of course it's always easier to "compromise" when you have no principles or core beliefs. That's called politics.

rzimmerman1
rzimmerman1

@danielj.mcgraw @PrestonHoller Actually the word is "compromise" and it simply means you've surrendered.

danielj.mcgraw
danielj.mcgraw

@PrestonHoller @danielj.mcgraw The border security and number of kind of immgrants allowed and how to treat employers who hire illegals and what to do with those who have been here for a long time are not separate debates. We, and that includes all of us, have to come up with policy that addresses all of these issues. Part of the problem with the Tea Partiers is they do not understand a basic human trait called "compremise." All our way, or we pout. Anytime you ask for specific input, they run away and hide. For many in the Tea Party, nearly all of America's societal ills are from those damn immigrants. They have overplayed it on every level, but they fall back on the fear mongering of the "they are not like us" scare tactic. My Irish-born grandmother used to tell me that the immigrant Irish in the early 1900s were portrayed in newspaper cartoons as being monkeys holding a beer and wearing bowler hats. The citizenry thought the Irish had too many kids, were Catholic for Godsakes, fought too much, and were vermin who stole jobs. And way too many of them coming over without papers hiding in steerage of the ships. Sound familiar? 

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