A State Rep. Wants Schools to Offer Gun Classes, Because This is Texas, Goddammit

boy-playing-with-toy-gun.jpg
Via.
In the wake of the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, the guns-in-schools debate in Texas has focused on teachers: whether to arm them; what training they should receive; whether it's better to shoot or ask questions first; etc.

But limiting the use of firearms on campus to trained, presumably responsible adults just seems un-Texan, which is why state Rep. James White would like to up the ante. On Friday, he filed legislation calling for gun training to be offered in public schools. To students.

"The origins of liberty in our great nation reside in large part with the idea espoused in the Second Amendment," White said in a statement posted on his website. "As a conservative, I want Texas students to have the option to learn more about both this critical part of our Constitution, and the practical knowledge of how to safely operate the common arms Texans use for hunting and self defense."

Such a course would offer instruction on the Second Amendment, presumably with a heavy emphasis on an individual's right to bear arms, gun maintenance and safety, and, last but not least, hands-on training with "common firearms such as pistols, revolvers, rifles, and shotguns."

Whether to offer the class would be up to individual school districts. Whether to take it would be up to students though, this being Texas, it would only be a matter of time before a fourth 'R' (as in rifle, or maybe Ruger) is added to the standard curriculum.

Putting guns in the hands of angsty teenagers in a country with a troubling history of school shootings is, according to White, "common sense." Because what on earth could possibly go wrong?

It's also a way to help "ensure that Texas leads the nation on standing up to the Obama Administration's troubling rhetoric on gun control." Because if there's one thing that will scare the pants off the federal government, it's legions of armed Texas school children ready to make like David Koresh.


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56 comments
mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

No reason this should be a huge problem, as long as it is an elective, and there are specific guidelines/criteria (such as no individual's weapons brought onto school campus) that determine who is allowed to take the class.

Myrna.Minkoff-Katz
Myrna.Minkoff-Katz topcommenter

Shh!  Don't upset the editor by criticizing Texas.

monstruss
monstruss

I'm a pretty liberal dude, but would have jumped all over a firearm class in school, honestly. 

ruddski
ruddski

"... armed Texas school children ready to make like David Koresh.

Or maybe even ATF and FBI agents with enough sense to not incinerate toddlers.

Jonathan McCalip
Jonathan McCalip

Cusswords aside, I think this might not be a bad idea, and I'm saying that as someone who believes that we shouldn't be selling assault rifles outside of millitary contracts. This is Texas; we won't ever get rid of guns (whoever is in the White House), so lets really look at teaching kids to be responsible with firearms. It also seems like a good first step towards a certification system.

everlastingphelps
everlastingphelps topcommenter

So... in leftist logic, sex ed doesn't make kids more likely to have sex, but gun safety classes make them more likely to shoot up the school.

holmantx
holmantx topcommenter

Flag.  10-yard penalty and loss of down for gratuitously using the term - Goddammit in the headline just to get people to read the piece.

And a penalty bong for reversing the role of Koresh children (armed Texas school children ready to make like David Koresh) who were killed by the FBI - burned alive.

12 under the age of 5.

jwferguson1969
jwferguson1969

I was on the high school rifle team(In a rural area called Mesquite,Scruffy) in the '80s.No one is making school districts offer the proposed ELECTIVE

whiteguiltlib
whiteguiltlib

Nicholson, what is it liike to be such a naive uninformed libtard propagandist asshole?

Kevin Morris
Kevin Morris

dallas observer..that curseword is offensive..un-liked

Jeffrey Lowry
Jeffrey Lowry

I guess we're already so far behind the rest of the world in education...what the heck, right?

Scruffygeist
Scruffygeist

Most of the rural folk that these Republican rubes are trying to appease with crap like that have their kids familiar with their gun collection while they're still watching Sesame Street. Let the districts decide whether to offer something about gun training, fine. But take a long look before you decide to put a range in next to the football field.

Do these lawmakers realize even Texas is mostly an urban/suburban population? Why does every Republican seem to want to cater only to the couch-and-fridge-on-the-front-porch set?

Nik Shah
Nik Shah

I am glad they are focusing on filling the important knowledge gaps. Kids won't understand how credit card interest rates work, but at least they will be able to hit a quarter from 20 yards away.

NewsDog
NewsDog

In the mid '70s I was in Jr High and took a PE elective course called outdoor education. It centered on hunting, fishing and camping. On a couple different occasions the instructor brought a variety of guns to class to show us how they worked. For some of the other kids it was the first time they had ever held a gun. One of my great memories was the day we went to the shooting range for a practical exam of target shooting. The instructor gave permission to those of us who had our own .22s to bring them with us. I remember walking into school carrying my gun in a case and seeing a few other guys doing the same. And it was no big deal because everyone knew what was going on. Oh, and this was here in Richardson.

I can only imagine trying to do that today.

observist
observist topcommenter

@monstruss I'd have to a see a picture before commenting on how pretty you are.

everlastingphelps
everlastingphelps topcommenter

You clowns still haven't touched the original hypocrisy of your side -- 

If sex ed helps curb student's risk-taking behavior and teaches them the safe way to exercise these urges without hurting anyone, why wouldn't gun safety classes do the same thing?

Scruffygeist
Scruffygeist

@everlastingphelps Sex ed prevents the dumbass kids who are going to have sex anyway from picking up diseases and getting knocked up.

whiteguiltlib
whiteguiltlib

@holmantx Eric would probably love a penalty bong.

RTGolden1
RTGolden1 topcommenter

@Jeffrey Lowry All knowledge is drawn from the same well.  With all the other useless classes offered in school, which do nothing to a) increase our school performance vs. the rest of the world, b)give kids a boost up the ladder of life; at least this class would teach them something that might save their lives someday: firearm safety.  Remember the mantra on the left is: "If only one life is saved, it's worth it."

RTGolden1
RTGolden1 topcommenter

@Nik Shah The government has absolutely no interest in teaching kids anything at all about how credit works.  Although I support firearms safety classes in school, if I had to choose between the two, I would have to go with teaching them about credit, or finances in general.

observist
observist topcommenter

@NewsDog You mean back in the good old days when the murder rate was twice as high as it is now?

russell.allison1
russell.allison1

@everlastingphelps I so wish I could remember the military officer who pretty well rendered a female interviewer speechless, but I can't.  The interviewer sort of rhetorically asked if providing a broader gun education to kids might create a generation of killers.  He very calmly asked if her if sex education created prostitutes.  She had no answer to this.  No, sex ed does not produce prostitutes and gun ed won't produce killers.

Kids (especially boys) have a natural curiosity about firearms.  Providing a forum to safely satisfy this curiosity and at the same time, educate them as to the power and danger of firearms at an age where it can have a significant impact is crucial if we are to begin to cut down on gun crime.  This was the role of huniting and I suspect that if somebody did the research, the vast majority of those committing gun crime have not had a background that included hunting. 

observist
observist topcommenter

@everlastingphelps  It's not surprising that you can't differentiate between shooting guns and an inexorable biological drive.

jwferguson1969
jwferguson1969

@Scruffygeist @jwferguson1969

So now rural is a state of mind and not a geographic location? So I guess you think the Rep. White is just a backwards racist East Texas redneck too?

RTGolden1
RTGolden1 topcommenter

@observist @NewsDog The doubling of the homicide rate occured during the 60's and 70's.. You know, that golden era of progressive enlightenment, where the more publicly famous of perpetrators were more likely to be carrying a liberal torch than a conservative one. Not that any of that really means anything.  The labels are stretched to fit whatever the labeller desires, the stats are just raw numbers that can be, and will be, interpreted in whichever way best supports an individual argument.  Post-AWB, homicide rates reached a 2-decade low and have remained there for 15 years.  imagine that, with gun ownership at all time high's, with nearly 300 million firearms legally owned by law abiding citizens, and the homicide rate doesn't measurably rise for 15 years.  But more gun ownership increases gun violence, how?

whiteguiltlib
whiteguiltlib

@observist - - thanks largely to concealed-carry, castle doctrine laws, three-strikes-and-you're-out, and mass incarceration of criminal blacks, all things naive white-guilt lIbtards like you hate, and yet here you are wanting to claim credit for the results.

everlastingphelps
everlastingphelps topcommenter

@russell.allison1 @everlastingphelps I recall the story being the reporter remarking that anyone carrying a gun is a murderer that hasn't been caught, and he replied that under that logic, anyone with a vagina is a prostitute that hasn't been caught.

There is nothing that could make guns more boring to teenagers than making the football coach come in and teach them gun safety and make them take a marksmanship test.

holmantx
holmantx topcommenter

@everlastingphelps @observist I think you lost them at the initial period of instruction and for informational purposes to start the class - "this is my rifle this is my gun".

jwferguson1969
jwferguson1969

@Scruffygeist @jwferguson1969 Seriously? "And prove that. I'm wrong about that" That sounds like an aurgument my kids would have.

Scruffygeist
Scruffygeist

@jwferguson1969 You're the one who introduced "backwards racist rednecks" into the conversation. And prove that I'm wrong about that.

jwferguson1969
jwferguson1969

@Scruffygeist @jwferguson1969

You should really know you facts before passing judgement and name calling.

Scruffygeist
Scruffygeist

@jwferguson1969 Most of Texas outside of cities that aren't Mesquite are backwards racist rednecks, don't kid yourself.

observist
observist topcommenter

@scottindallas@observist@RTGolden1@NewsDog 

 I don't know that concealed carry had any effect on the overall rates of gun ownership - just that it allowed a self-selected group of law-abiding people to carry them around to more places.  It's good that the concealed carry registration process is mostly successful in filtering out the stupid, violent, impulsive types.  It may also be that concealed carry has two offsetting effects, a negative one of unnecessary "stand your ground" and itchy-finger self-defense killing and a positive one of genuine crime deterrence.

I realize CC is not the same as SYG, but the first lets people carry guns around more, and the second lets them use it more.

 For example, in Florida the murder rate went from 5.0/100k in 2005, when SYG was passed to 6.2, 6.6 and 6.3 in 2006-2008.  That's not saying the increase was caused by SYG, just that SYG clearly did nothing to reduce the murder rate.  "Justifiable" homicides increased from 12/year 2000-2005 to 35/year 2006-2010, which makes up some of that increase.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/flcrime.htm

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/20/deaths-nearly-triple-since-stand-your-ground-enacted/


scottindallas
scottindallas topcommenter

@observist @RTGolden1 @NewsDog why didn't the concealed carry in TX result in a spike in gun violence?  I opposed concealed carry, I harbored the same fears you express.  I was wrong.  Those "yahoos with guns" didn't go crazy, didn't act irresponsibly.   You need to "observe" that fact and then incorporate it into your thoughts. 

RTGolden1
RTGolden1 topcommenter

@cantkeepthetruthdown @observist @RTGolden1 @NewsDog Probably because race has nothing to do with what I asked him.  There are a number of ways to deal with the arguments he presented, playing a race card isn't one of them.  I really don't need the conductor of the crazy train 'helping' me with my debates.  Thank you.

observist
observist topcommenter

@RTGolden1@observist@NewsDog

Gun ownership increase gun violence how?

1) A plurality of murders (38k) is between acquaintances, family and friends as a result of an argument of some kind, 60% with a gun.  The next-most common circumstance of homicide is a robbery (10k), 80% of which are with a gun.

2) Guns are the most effective and efficient killing tool.  Meaning, compared a knife, the next-most-common weapon, a single shot is more likely to kill, a shooter has little chance to change their mind once they've pulled the trigger, and the person being shot has far less chance to defend him/herself.  

In short, stupid, violent, impulsive people a far more likely to successfully kill someone (or themselves) if they have a gun handy.

 Evidence

 US has close to the highest murder rate among industrialized nations.  (Only Estonia, Mexico, Russia and Brazil are worse)

 http://www.civitas.org.uk/crime/crime_stats_oecdjan2012.pdf

70% of those murders are carried out with guns.

http://projects.wsj.com/murderdata/?mg=inert-wsj#view=all

Gun murder rates are directly correlated to gun ownership rates.

http://www.businessinsider.com/shooting-gun-laws-2012-12

Last, the number of guns per person may be increasing, but percentage of households with guns is decreasing.  I.e. fewer people own guns, but the people that own guns own more of them.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/in-gun-ownership-statistics-partisan-divide-is-sharp/


cantkeepthetruthdown
cantkeepthetruthdown

@RTGolden1 @observist @NewsDog Try as they might to paint every mass murderer as a right wing nutbag... the media is might silent when it proves to be the other way. It just doesn't fit their narrative.

Maybe they can't report on the political leanings of mass murderers while they are too busy sucking them off and fawning over them like this Chris Dorner asshole.

observist
observist topcommenter

@whiteguiltlib   Nor did you attempt to refute the fact that you're an unemployed, attention-starved racist idiot.

whiteguiltlib
whiteguiltlib

@observist - that's a rather graceless way to admit that you can't argue against the facts, but I accept your tacit admission of defeat.

observist
observist topcommenter

@whiteguiltlib  Upon reflection, conservatism has nothing to do with you.  You're just an unemployed attention-starved racist idiot.

whiteguiltlib
whiteguiltlib

@observist - the fact that legal abortion kills tens of thousands of future (black) criminals is just one of the reasons I'm pro-legal abortion. There should be free abortion clinics in every ghetto.

Scruffygeist
Scruffygeist

@observist I'm going to enjoy the Republican spin on the recent figures stating teen pregnancies are at a record low rate too.

observist
observist topcommenter

@whiteguiltlib Actually it's due to legalized abortion, EPA regulations against lead, reduced gun ownership (households w/guns, not guns/household) and Sesame Street - all things conservatives hate.

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