In Dallas As in Miami, It's Time to Build Low-Income Housing Where the Jobs Are

Categories: Schutze

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Who's a liberal these days, and who are the conservatives? I look in the mirror, I don't even know. I look in The New York Times this morning, I'm even more confused.

The Times has a story out of Miami about major cuts in federal housing subsidies. The story calls them "some of the deepest cuts in the country in federal housing money designated for nonprofit groups that serve the poor, the elderly and the developmentally disabled."

So if I'm a liberal, I'm all upset about that, right? But I'm not. In fact, I get it. I assume the same thing is about to happen here. And it looks to me like a good thing.

What? I'm a right-winger and I don't know it, right? Eh. I don't think so. But enough about me. Let's talk about real people.

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Via.
The story in The Times quotes real people involved in housing programs in Dade County, Florida, howling about the cruelty of cuts in programs for the poor in these very tough times. "These are huge cuts that are impeding the funds of many agencies," one man told The Times. "We are going to put up a fight, and hopefully Washington will listen."

Washington. That would be the Obama administration. But according to the story, "Washington" is not listening to the argument against the cuts -- an argument that Washington has changed the game, ruling out money for the poor at the worst of all possible times.

A spokesman for the Department of Housing and Urban Development tells The Times that no rules have been changed at all: "There is no change in the formula," he says. "It is solely data driven."

There are fewer over-crowded housing units in the inner city in Miami, the spokesman says, and therefore Miami needs less federal subsidy for housing. The advocates are claiming the government is counting overbuilt housing for the rich. But the government says no: 2010 Census workers went door to door and eyeballed each unit in poor neighborhoods. More are empty than used to be.

Well, if there are fewer poor people in the neighborhoods where poor people are supposed to live, what happened to them? You know what I bet happened to them? Same thing that has been happening in Dallas. They got on the bus and went looking for a job. If we want to help poor people who are pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps, we should subsidize the housing out wherever it is that poor people are finding work, not keep piling more subsidized housing into the ghetto.

In fact, in the Florida story, I think I hear a faint echo of the same issue Dallas City Hall is up against -- not exactly on the nose, but related. Dallas is about to be in huge trouble because of a complaint brought against it by two developers, the subject of much writing by yours truly - Curtis Lockey and Craig MacKenzie. They have complained to HUD that Dallas has been lying for years about the way it uses federal block grant money for subsidized housing. Every year the city must sign on the dotted line, certifying that it is spending Washington's money to "affirmatively further fair housing," which is bureaucracy-speak for pushing housing integration.

In their complaint to HUD, the two developers, angry with the city over a deal they say they got cheated out of, allege that Dallas has been doing exactly the opposite of what it has said in sworn statement. Instead, they say Dallas has used Washington's money to promote fancy-schmancy housing for rich people downtown and segregated quasi-public housing for poor black and Hispanic people in South Dallas.

City manager Mary Suhm has been whispering in the city council's ear that these are just two disgruntled guys with an ax to grind because they lost their own deal. I wonder if she has also kept them abreast of the fact that their cause has been joined by a top Washington law firm that has already cleaned the clocks of other communities around the country on this very issue.

Here's the deal, and you decide who's the liberal here: The federal money is housing de-seg money. That's the law. But Dallas has used it to build segregated communities, creating an environment in which South Dallas becomes more and more a kind of very polite, freshened-up, newly constructed concentration camp, while downtown draws a more affluent and whiter clientele.

In Florida, as here, you have all kinds of advocates and program-runners who are dependent on that money, and they are very unhappy to see cuts. I'm not going to call them poverty pimps. I believe their intentions are good. But how is it a good thing -- or a liberal thing -- to use public money to fund some kind of poverty factory in an already segregated area?

The Dallas metropolitan area is in better shape jobs-wise than most of the country. None of those jobs is in South Dallas. Nor are they gonna be. Left to its own devices, South Dallas runs off jobs. Look at the poor Korean guy our Greg Howard has been writing about in the Shamrock station on MLK. Protesters are telling him he can't keep selling Twinkies unless he gives them a scholarship fund for black kids.

The deal is this: If you're in South Dallas, and you want a job, you need to move to Richardson or Plano. That's where the jobs are. You have to go where the work is, or you won't get work. That's why this country isn't still covered with trees and Native Americans.

If you want to help people who are trying to make that kind of change in their lives, you take the federal block grant money, stop lying about what you're doing with it, and use it to provide more subsidized housing in Richardson or Plano, the way the law says you're supposed to do.

Poor people need help moving to where the work is, not help staying where it is not. To me, that's the liberal position. Use the money to help people get out of South Dallas and into the mainstream.

Now you tell me what the conservative position is. I am absolutely all ears, man.


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108 comments
nd oil field housing
nd oil field housing

Obviously Dallas is provide a great opportunity to make a nice house. Here give a well discussing which is helpful to know about the Dallas home build activity. At that time that build a house with a reasonable price. These are really great new to needy people get a benefit from this offer.

homes for sale costa mesa
homes for sale costa mesa

its a good post and in dallas should not received any HUD block funds.We must adopt such measures through which we can grand hud blocks and increase developments in dallas. 

Guest
Guest

I find it in a positive way and the website is so cool and very well designed, this is the key to the door of success, everyone should try it.

Crap Detector
Crap Detector

My head is going to explode from all this "discussion" and pissing on trees. SHEESH

Murder Follows Section 8
Murder Follows Section 8

http://www.theatlantic*com/magazine/archive/2008/07/american-murder-mystery/6872/

American Murder Mystery

Why is crime rising in so many American cities? The answer implicates one of the most celebrated antipoverty programs of recent decades.

By Hanna Rosin

July/August 2008 - The Atlantic Magazine..." Betts had been evaluating the impact of one of the city government’s most ambitious initiatives: the demolition of the city’s public-housing projects, as part of a nationwide experiment to free the poor from the destructive effects of concentrated poverty. Memphis demolished its first project in 1997. The city gave former residents federal “Section 8” rent-subsidy vouchers and encouraged them to move out to new neighborhoods. Two more waves of demolition followed over the next nine years, dispersing tens of thousands of poor people into the wider metro community.

If police departments are usually stingy with their information, housing departments are even more so. Getting addresses of Section 8 holders is difficult, because the departments want to protect the residents’ privacy. Betts, however, helps the city track where the former residents of public housing have moved. Over time, she and Janikowski realized that they were doing their fieldwork in the same neighborhoods.

About six months ago, they decided to put a hunch to the test. Janikowski merged his computer map of crime patterns with Betts’s map of Section 8 rentals. Where Janikowski saw a bunny rabbit, Betts saw a sideways horseshoe (“He has a better imagination,” she said). Otherwise, the match was near-perfect. On the merged map, dense violent-crime areas are shaded dark blue, and Section8 addresses are represented by little red dots. All of the dark-blue areas are covered in little red dots, like bursts of gunfire. The rest of the city has almost no dots.

Betts remembers her discomfort as she looked at the map. The couple had been musing about the connection for months, but they were amazed—and deflated—to see how perfectly the two data sets fit together. She knew right away that this would be a “hard thing to say or write.” Nobody in the antipoverty community and nobody in city leadership was going to welcome the news that the noble experiment that they’d been engaged in for the past decade had been bringing the city down, in ways they’d never expected.  But the connection was too obvious to ignore, and Betts and Janikowski figured that the same thing must be happening all around the country."

JimShitzWhiteGuilt
JimShitzWhiteGuilt

Just look at what happened to the Forest-Audelia-635 area since the Section 8 cancer spread there! Multiple murders every month! Filth everywhere!

Move to a section 8 apartment there, Jim you white-guilt libtard!

JimShitzWhiteGuilt
JimShitzWhiteGuilt

Hey white-guilt libtard! If you are sooooo concerned about 'segregation', what is stopping you from moving away from affluent Swiss Ave / white Lakewood area and moving to blackest South Dallas?

What??! Nobody wants to live around blacks?????!?

I'm so shocked and surprised.

Move back to Detroit, you transparent hypocrite libtard.

JBone
JBone

The federal housing program was so corrupt in Houston, the federal government had to take over the entire City Hall Housing Department. Go read about it, the council person states, "its embarrassing, we are the laughing stock of the Country." 

I guess she doesn't know about Dallas:

http://www.chron.com/news/hous...

JimS
JimS

Alert for people reading this stuff for the first time. Don't waste too much time on my tit-for-tat spat with Joe here.  Make sure you look farher down the comment trail to earlier remarks by JGreenan, 1500 Marilla and Blood in the Water. There's a whole lot of very inside very interesting stuff going on there.

JBone
JBone

"There are fewer over-crowded housing units in the inner city in Miami, the spokesman says, and therefore Miami needs less federal subsidy for housing. The advocates are claiming the government is counting overbuilt housing for the rich. But the government says no: 2010 Census workers went door to door and eyeballed each unit in poor neighborhoods. More are empty than used to be."

If I am the US Government, I would say, if these dollars are going to be stolen, misappropriated and the likes by these crooks disguised as "housing advocates" or "politico's" then I might as well keep it for the deficit. 

Great idea Uncle Sam, because if the funds are not being used the appropriate way to help the people its intended to help, then lets keep it and find other good uses..................novel idea.......

JimS
JimS

Joe tells us a horror story of "Census tracts with declining population where whitey no-hispanics are quickly becoming the minority or already are."Oh my God, Joe. NO! Not fewer white people! Why didn't you say that was what it's about in the first place? Fewer white people is the End Times, right, Joe? Where would the world be without white people? We wouldn't have wife-beater tee shirts or gimme caps or all-cousin towns. We might not even have banjo music. I can't even stand to think about it.  

Dalguy
Dalguy

Jim, what happened to ya?  Send the poor folks to Richardson and Plano is not the Jim I thought I knew.

cp
cp

Jim, I think, for some people's sake, you should come up with a better term for "jobs". Some of them to think "economic development" in the traditional sense- Home Depots and grocery drug stores and GAPs and other retail/service stores as such- equate to "jobs". So they are confusing something like, oh say, what the Inland Port could have meant with what comes after those *real* jobs some into a community, which is the retail and service stuff. Stuff that, in the Firewheel area of Garland, for example, you see teenagers employed as part-time waiters, because their parents have good jobs and now there's a Chili's there to serve people because of the fact that parents have their jobs and own a home and pay taxes, yadda yadda yadda..... 

Meanwhile in South Dallas, a Subway opens and they need five part-time sandwich makers and get 200 applicants for those positions, none of which will go to the local teens. This is not a "jobs" creation program and it is no way to revitalize a community. 

JOSHUA
JOSHUA

Time for housing to become personalized habitats...like each person gets a tent deal to move wherever they get a job, and the city provides community sanitation and amenities....easy to expand or shrink depend upon number of "peoples" in a dwelling....heck beats what the Haiti folks are living in now....stop thinking of HOUSING as a place for the TV set and Cable converter, the kitchen only needs a microwave and minifrig....no furniture other than sleeping bags and stuff.  LET POOR FOLKS LIVE LIKE POOR FOLKS and give them an incentive to MORE UP through WORKING JOBS....subside minimum wage for a few months for them to have a job to prove they will show up and work regular....what is with this "poor folks housing" gig.....ghetto building 101 for the DEVELOPERS....yeah.

Poor folks need protections and FOCUS on getting out of poverty, not some big house deal and skip the rent and move on after stealing the appliances anyway.

GUEST-O
GUEST-O

As you can see by the facts, CHAOS IS COMING! 

IN A GOOD WAY! 

NOTHING LIKE A SHAKE UP TO MAKE THE CROOKED, STRAIGHT........................

CollinBabs
CollinBabs

I live in Plano and am finding it increasingly difficult to afford to live close to where I work. So, the problem isn't just contained to Dallas. It is very likely that my next housing choice will NOT be in Plano due to cost, and I'll have to live farther away from my work.

Joe L
Joe L

I hate to bring reason to this exchange, but an obvious solution is to continue to concentrate on increasing employment in downtown and booming uptown, which are extremely accessible to South Dallas by public transportation. Ditto for the Inland port project.

Richardson is an aging, inner-ring suburb that has already got South Dallas type problems in many areas.  It's barely holding its own.  Have you ever been to Richardson, Mr. Schutze?  There is already plenty of inexpensive housing, although some of it has been condemned and torn down. Adding low income housing will only hasten Richardson's decline. 

Plano, Frisco and McKinney might comfortably support more low-income housing.  Good luck convincing suburbanites killing themselves to pay a mortgage to welcome housing that will lower their property values.

taxedmore
taxedmore

If I am taxed to pay somebody else's rent, how am I supposed to look at that as "they are pulling themselves up by their bootstraps"?

Joe
Joe

Another bomb by Jim who does not know squat about the relationship between central cities and suburbs. Richardson and Plano already have affordable housing and plenty of it. 

Its So Sad
Its So Sad

A PUBLIC HOUSING SOLUTION THAT WORKS

Some years ago I visited Toronto - that's in Canada, a little ways North of Oklahoma.

While taking a tour of the city, I asked about where the poor live? We weren't seeing any run-down neighborhoods. The answer was simple - "everywhere."

Every apartment complex has a percentage of its units dedicated to public assistance/subsidized housing. Whenever a new building is being built, the 'housing authority' takes a look at the layout and basically says, "We'll take this one, this one, and that one."

This spreads the public housing throughout the city, at zero construction cost to the city, and the apartment owners do not lose any money because they will receive the full rent due. It also prevents a poor ghetto from forming, because they are not all forced to live next door to each other.

A poor person/family can live ANYWHERE in the city. Their children attend ANY of the schools, and they are not solely dependent on public transportation to get across the river to a job! (Oh, sorry. Thoughts moved back to Dallas there for a second...)

Nobody's neighborhood is devalued because a group of crappy Section 8 apartments are built across the street.

This also helps break the cycle of poverty, because the children grow up around people who are not all poor.

I'm sure there are lots of reasons THIS WOULD NEVER WORK in America, but I've never heard a real argument against it. Of course it would cut out a lot of gub'mnt money being divvied out to well-connected businessmen by well-connected politicians!

Guest
Guest

Why didn't you just say, "Murder follows poor black people"?

Mo
Mo

Wow, look who showed up waving his confederate flag, in his wife beater tank top yelling slurs while showing-off his 7th grade education!!!!! 

Guest
Guest

Yeah, 1500 Marilla and Blood in the Water are gaining the courage to be HEROES, by exposing all the wrong doings going on inside City Hall. Hooray for them. They need to start mobilizing and band together to expose all. Its time and there has never been a better environment for such HEROISM!

JimS
JimS

Hey, JBone. Federal government pays for air traffic control. Planes still crash sometimes. Why not solve problem by eliminating air traffic control? This is how you think, right?

JimShitzWhiteGuilt
JimShitzWhiteGuilt

Moron. Blacks and muslims are far more likely to be inbred than whites, but you are ignorant of that fact because you are a pathetic white-guilt libtard.

You think that less whites is a good idea? Then why did you flee Detroit, you hypocritical white-guilt libtard stereotype?

MOVE BACK TO DETROIT, hypocrite, and SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Joe
Joe

Let us dispense with the personal attacks and straw men shall we?

Who brought these into the discussion?Center cities vs suburbs.implications that suburbs are a white stereotype paradisethat suburbs aren't desegregated.desegregationimplications that suburbs are a job factory.race.stereotypes that suburbs don't have public assisted housing and suburbs don't have enough affordable housing.that suburbs don't have their own serious problems.

I believe it is Jim who brought those to the discussion. Perhaps you ought to get up out of your chair in the Observer office on Oak Lawn that overlooks the poverty stricken areas of Highland Park, Victory, and Uptown, go to the bathroom, and look in the mirror. All of these above that are propositional statements (i.e. suburbs are a white stereotype paradise, suburbs don't have public assisted housing, etc) are false. 

I did not mention race solely Jim. You are ignorant but not stupid. Perhaps you are still ignorant. What I said was, "What you will find is that the demographic pattern changes in parts of inner ring suburbs resemble the early decline of urban areas" and in fact they do. How does moving assistance programs there affect this or help it? These demographic patterns include ethnicity, income levels, declining population, property value shifts, and a lot of other things. It does not only include ethnicity and nor did I only mention it. Do you deny that parts of Richardson and Plano resemble areas in decline? Answer. Don't dodge it by attacking the messenger. Oh by the way, Richardson and Plano already do have housing assistance in their borders. By federal law, owners can sign up for these things and implement with immunity from municipal control and some owners do. Let me repeat:"What about the de-population of parts of Richardson and Plano? Has Jim looked at the census data for Richardson or Plano census tract by census tract? What is that de-population about Mr Urban Demographer? How sayeth you that this helps the declining areas of inner ring suburbs My lord? What is the solution to their problems? Do you CARE about their problems? "

Answer. Don't dodge it by attacking the messenger.  

Do you deny these exist? Did you know they exist before you were just told. Do you care? How does knowing about them now change your opinion of the "Jim Plan?" It doesn't? If not then why not?

Answer. Don't dodge it by attacking the messenger.  

I have a challenge for you, Jim. Stop writing about Dallas for six weeks. Just go cold turkey and do it. Write about the serious sustainability and structural issues in Richardson, Plano, Garland, Carrollton, Farmers Branch, and other inner ring suburbs. More people live in inner ring suburbs than in Dallas. Don't just take a tour of the economic development departments but go looking for the grit because you will find it. 

JimS
JimS

Forgive me cp. You know, sometimes somebody sets up a nice slow lob like that for you, and you just have to whack it.

Joe
Joe

Without knowing your needs, I would guess that you might be making the common mistake of not examining the tradeoffs between distance, amenities and your actual needs. Travel and being closer to the fringe has built in costs that (sometimes) are not made up for by lower housing costs. Sometimes more expensive housing closer in is less expensive when all factors are added in. 

GenX
GenX

This country will be so much better off, when your generation is gone, sad to say. You carry all the baggage of prehistoric thinking, its worthless to even try to "bring reason" to you and the likes. 

Move on to greener fields.............

Blood in the water
Blood in the water

It is called 'inclusionary zoning'. And while it has not been discredited as practiced here in the good old USA even the most ardent affordable housing advocates would probably call it mixed success at best. The Texas Lege has all but outlawed it. And before you jump up and call them all those names we love to call them, look no further than the closest thing we have to inclusionary zoning, the requirement for affordable housing in TIFs. This has generated big sloshing troughs of money for City Hall to hand out to their pals. Both inside and outside City Hall. You would be challenged to find a single actual affordable housing unit anywhere.

BOP
BOP

People need to realize an integrated society will produce greater economic results for the entire area as a whole. Trust me, the City of Dallas tax collections would be much greater today, if the politico's would not have created this tale of two cities, over the past decades. 

Didn't I read that South Dallas land mass is equal to, or greater than, the 34th largest city in America? Yeah, that was off the Mayor's presentation slide at the Cedars. 

What a pity and travesty Dallas finds itself in now at the hands of evil doers carrying out horrid acts......................................i guess thats what all the "day of reckoning" stuff is all about..........................or "all the chickens are coming home to roost".........................etc

Guest
Guest

Very intelligent piece here! You get it.

Thanks! Now you know why we have this "concentration camp" for poor minorities called South Dallas. It was designed many years ago, and decades of politicians have kept furthering the segregation to the point it is at now. Basically, a concentration camp for poor black people. Very sad and flat out illegal! 

JimShitzWhiteGuilt
JimShitzWhiteGuilt

Why don't you move to a black-majority, black-'governed' city? Oh yeah because you are a total hypocrite, just like all white-guilt Libtards.

JBone
JBone

Oh no. dont get me wrong. I think its really important to solve the federal housing debacle in Dallas. My point is the problem is systemic, so the program funds should be frozen until the problem, complete system is fixed, so the rightful people benefit, appropriately. 

JimS
JimS

Help me here. What does any of this have to do with the original theme? Putting more subsidized housing in South Dallas furthers segregation. Putting it in more diverse areas affirmatively furthers fair housing -- de-seg -- which is the legal mandate. Right, Joe? Joe? 

CollinBabs
CollinBabs

 No doubt about it, Joe, there are definitely a number of cost factors when considering the bigger picture. It's not all about the price of the house.

JoeMamma
JoeMamma

How about less expensive housing, closer in? That sounds ideal! 

JimShitzWhiteGuilt
JimShitzWhiteGuilt

Move to blackest south Dallas, or east st louis, or Gary Indiana, or Haiti, or Zimbabwe, you pathetic white-guilt LIBTARD.

Joe
Joe

Sorry but that's nonsense says this GenXer. "Joe L" (and I am Joe without the L) is absolutely right. There are parts of Richardson that have more in common with Oak Cliff and other older Dallas areas than parts of Dallas (like Preston Hollow and Lake Highlands) have in common with other parts of Dallas. I doubt Schutze has been north of Northwest highway in 20 years. Certainly the Dallas Observer ignores anything north of northwest highway.

Richardson has declining areas which they are fighting. They aren't trying to outright gentrify those areas but stabilize them. Doing what Schutze suggests would just throw Richardson under the bus for the crime of not being Dallas. You basically have solid middle to lower middle class folks setting up shop in Richardson and digging in. Its the beginning of a resurgence that many inner suburbs would love to have. It is a good thing and people ought to encourage it. Schutze just wants to stay ignorant and dump problems elsewhere.

Crap Detector
Crap Detector

 That's pretty harsh. How do you know JoeL's generation? Are you making assumptions and jumping to conclusions to justify your bullying? Perhaps there are folks who feel YOUR generation is a burden. Just stop. Get back to the issue and post relevantly.

Guest
Guest

Yep, I Smell the Blood in the water!!!!! 

And I am hungry, real hungry!!!!!!! 

Redundant Again
Redundant Again

You're absolutely right about the TIF money. And, Dallas County is just as bad as the City when it comes to these matters. Dallas County has had a written adopted affordable housing policy since 1997 (they just amended it last year). Basically, the County will not make any contributions to a TIF District unless the TIF District adopts rules by which 20% of all residential units receiving TIF grant $$$ be "affordable". The County has participated in most, if not all, of the City's 17 TIF Districts, contributing millions of dollars in taxpayer monies over the years. Anyone want to guess how many affordable housing units have been created?

Its So Sad
Its So Sad

Maybe I should change my alias to Its All About The Money!

JimS
JimS

Ah, I misread you and jumped the gun. Sorry. Yeah, I bet you're right. And the Houston case is important.  I personally don't think Dallas City Hall is ever the sharpest tool in the shed, even when it comes to cheating. If Dallas figured out how to embezzle this money for other purposes, other cities all over the country must be doing it times ten. Yeah, I can see the need for a total freeze on those grounds. You make a good point.

Joe
Joe

Jim, I lead a reporter to the data but I can't make him think. It is almost as if you aren't reading what is being written.

"Tell me again why it represents 'decline.'"

This is a case in point. What was said was, "What you will find is that the demographic pattern changes in parts of inner ring suburbs resemble the early decline of urban areas. So you are saying to folks fighting that decline and trying to do so that avoids the ignorance of previous central city decline that their fight doesn't matter."

I also wrote, "How does the 'Jim Plan' prevent further rapid decline in inner ring suburbs..."

Even Joe L (not me) wrote, "Adding low income housing will only hasten Richardson's decline."

You see Jim. Part of that above I have now quoted twice to you and thus its the third time you should have read it. It isn't penetrating the brain cells. These places are ALREADY experiencing a pattern of decline and have been for some time. Nobody said, "represents decline" whatever the heck that means. 

Let's just dispense with Dallas, Richardson and Plano for just a sec. What if someone said, "Hey we have to put some public housing somewhere. Looks like we have a few choices around here: (1) areas that are completely depressed, (2) a few with modest incomes and conditions but declining at rates that will require intervention, (3) some areas with modest growth and upward trends, and (4) areas of rapid growth." 

Who the heck would say, "Let's go with #1 and #2", but you are suggesting #2. 

"Are we back to the problem  about not enough white people?" I don't know. You have an obsession with race, so you tell me. Again what I said was, "These demographic patterns include ethnicity, income levels, declining population, property value shifts, and a lot of other things. It does not only include ethnicity and nor did I only mention it. Do you deny that parts of Richardson and Plano resemble areas in decline?"

Of course, you don't answer that question and other questions because Jim's ideas amount to "Screw you."  

Jim, you did as you have done in the piece above and in many Observer pieces over the years. That is, you display your ignorance for urban growth and decline patterns and an unfamiliarity with those patterns in the Dallas area. 

Get off Oak Lawn and get north of 635 sometime.

Queen for a Day
Queen for a Day

Preston Hollow? Take a good look at University Park and Highland Park. They are NOT part of the City of Dallas, but they are completely surrounded by the City of Dallas, hence the "bubble". Both of the Park Cities are members of the Dallas County CDBG consortium (Dallas County gets CDBG money from HUD also).

JimS
JimS

Public housing is not going into the middle of Preston  Hollow. But it could fit easily into the more modest suburban areas you describe. Tell me again why it represents "decline." Are we back to the problem  about not enough white people? 

Joe
Joe

"What does any of this have to do with the original theme?"

Because your original theme was based on a general ignorance of metropolitan dynamics.

So are you going to answer the questions?

"Putting more subsidized housing in South Dallas furthers segregation."

Yeah? And what's your point? Putting it somewhere else to further erode other areas based on your ignorance of those areas is a solution? I'm not in favor of segregation any more than the next guy is. I am all for putting mixed income neighborhoods together. 

You offered an alternative which raises the objection -- an objection based on evidence. If you said to put more in Preston Hollow or Lake Highlands we would not be having this conversation. I don't think piling it up in one part of a city is good any more than the next guy. I am responding to your claim it ought to go into inner ring suburbs... a comment based on ignorance of the state of those suburbs, yet you fail to acknowledge that. 

There already is low cost housing and desegregated areas in the inner ring suburbs you mentioned. There is section 8 housing in Richardson, Jim. Did you know that? Gee Mr Jim. Remember that census data? That's the point of mentioning it! Do connect the dots please. 

So are you going to answer the questions or not? 

So do you acknowledge stress, de-population, and declining demographic numbers in parts of inner ring suburbs or don't you? If not, then why not? 

How does the "Jim Plan" prevent further rapid decline in inner ring suburbs and if it doesn't then how does it help the people it is supposed to be helping?

Really Jim. Its clear you haven't been north of 635 in years.

Stop writing about Dallas for six weeks. Just go cold turkey and do it. Write about the serious sustainability and structural issues in Richardson, Plano, Garland, Carrollton, Farmers Branch, and other inner ring suburbs. More people live in inner ring suburbs than in Dallas. Don't just take a tour of the economic development departments but go looking for the grit because you will find it. Are you going to accept the challenge or not? 

Joe
Joe

We agree!

Joe
Joe

"Sorry, Joe, but your stripes are showing. The de-population of South Dallas is all about upward mobility and success, not a crime wave. " 

Jim, your ignorance is showing. What about the de-population of parts of Richardson and Plano? Has Jim looked at the census data for Richardson or Plano census tract by census tract? What is that de-population about Mr Urban Demographer? How sayeth you that this helps the declining areas of inner ring suburbs My lord? What is the solution to their problems? Do you CARE about their problems? 

What you will find is that the demographic pattern changes in parts of inner ring suburbs resemble the early decline of urban areas. So you are saying to folks fighting that decline and trying to do so that avoids the ignorance of previous central city decline that their fight doesn't matter. You are saying, "screw you." Where will Jim be when Jims ideas are enacted and parts of Richardson and Plano look like places south of 30?

"You live in the United States. You need to do your share like everybody else in the United States. "

Perhaps you ought to take a look at that census data Mr Jim. You'd find the following in Richardson. Census tracts with declining population where whitey no-hispanics are quickly becoming the minority or already are. We can then get into income changes over time, competitiveness of property values, how all that feeds the coffers of schools and city hall to provide services, and on and on. 

What you will find is that Richardson and some parts of Plano have their share probably much more than you think they do. 

"Maybe if you got south of Mockingbird once in a while, you'd get a better picture of it. "

I work south of I-30 next to a depressed area. Next ignorant comment.

" The apartments a block from me were crack-house whore-house nightmares 15 years ago."

So? Go on west spring valley on the Richardson-Dallas border on a summer evening and what do you think you will find? Take a guess Jim. That is now Jim. Not 15 years ago. Somehow you think throwing low income housing in the area will help it?

"Joe, I have been accused of racism in this dialogue. "

Not by me. I accuse you of ignorance of not understanding the growth and decline of entire urban areas including the relation of center cities to their suburbs.

"Somehow that makes me not want to do the same to you. I get that you care about your neighbrohood and your community, and you do not want crack-heads and whores invading it. We're on the same page."

Not exactly of the same page. To your second sentence I say, "too late." While it is admittedly and intermittent problem at this point these things do occur, and there are areas on the tipping point. The next few years will decide if they go up or look like parts of how oak cliff used to look.

"They don't get to decide where they're born. The fewer born into the gehtto (sic), the better off we all are."

I agree and the "Jim Plan" would simply switch their births to another location in a few years.

Politico
Politico

"You have to think about uit in terms of kids. They don't get to decide where they're born. The fewer born into the gehtto, the better off we all are."

Could not have been said better Jim. Spoken by a TRUE DAD AND AMERICAN. All children deserve opportunity, not the opposite, and that is what AFFH is all about!!!!!!!!!!

GOD BLESS ALL CHILDREN IN AMERICA. 

JimS
JimS

Sorry, Joe, but your stripes are showing. The de-population of South Dallas is all about upward mobility and success, not a crime wave. The traditional population of South Dallas was poor, black and under-educated. In the last 20 years, the over-arching trend has been for those people to become succesfull, better educated, better employed and obviously less poor. They're no longer in South Dallas for the same reason my own forebears are no longer in  the immigrant German slums of St. Louis, which no longer even exist. MaybE if you got south of Mockingbird once in a while, you'd get a better picture of it.  The apartments a block from me were crack-house whore-house nightmares 15 years ago. They're full of honest working people with jobs now. Honest working people with jobs are great neighbors, even if they don't all look like characters on Desperate Housewives. The legal mandate for the CDBG money is to "affirmatively further fair housing," which means conbatting the artificial barriers of racism that stand between ambitious hard-working no-blancos  and a better life. That's the law of the United States. You live in the United States. You need to do your share like everybody else in the United States. Joe, I have been accused of racism in this dialogue. Somehow that makes me not want to do the same to you. I get that you care about your neighbrohood and your community, and you do not want crack-heads and whores invading it. We're on the same page. But the kind of housing we're talking abouit doesn't go to that element. It's for working people.I'm not saying those people are stuck in South Dallas because you stuck them there. Much more of the blame these days goes to their own leaders, who would rather keep their own people down than see them go. But they gotta go. That's the way of the world, man.  People need to get up and out. And jammi8ng all the subsidized housing into the old ghetto merely serves to keep peopleprisoners of the ghetto. You have to think about uit in terms of kids. They don't get to decide where they're born. The fewer born into the gehtto, the better off we all are.

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