Is Bankrupt AMR About To Throw its Employees Under the Plane?

Categories: Schutze

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Stories in today's Dallas Morning News and New York Times report that American Airlines could try to ditch some or all of its pension plans during its trip through bankruptcy court.

We should all hate that. Every time we allow another business to slash the throats of its own retirees, we expose our own throats to the same gory knife.

The News and Times stories quote AMR, the ownership company, as saying it is "not necessarily" planning on abandoning its obligations to loyal long-term employees. But the News story quotes a written statement from Josh Gotbaum, director of the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp., the government entity that will get stuck with the pensions if American walks on them, as sounding like a very worried man:

"Some have suggested that American must duck its pension commitments and kill its pension plans in order to survive. We think that commitments to 130,000 workers and retirees shouldn't be disposable, that American should have to prove in court that this drastic step is necessary."
The PBGC has been forced to go to court to pry basic numbers for the pension plans out of AMR. Gotbaum is quoted as saying that AMR has made misleading claims to the effect that high pension obligations are what ran American onto the rocks. He says in his statement that Delta Air Lines "pays an average of $13,210 per employee in pension costs -- almost two-thirds more than American's pre-bankruptcy cost of $8,102."

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Underlying this scenario is a fundamentally un-American notion that loyal employees are the problem -- that people who have worked hard and bargained in good faith for benefits are bloodsuckers holding the Gordon Gekkos of the world in thrall.

That's obscene. Talk about moral hazard. That's the morality of the Mafia.

Before a single employee is stripped of a single dollar in AMR pension money, all of the Gekkos running the place need to be stripped of their mansions and their maids, their Maseratis and their executive hostesses. And that's still only a symbolic pittance.

Much more fundamentally, we should abhor the underlying assumption that a corporation owes more fidelity, honesty and decency to its directors than it does to its employees. There is some formula by which that bankruptcy judge can slice the pie, keep the company alive and keep its pension funds intact, and AMR shouldn't be allowed to set a toe outside the courtroom again until that formula has been found.

We all have at least two dogs in this hunt. If AMR is allowed to dump its pension obligations on the taxpayers by abandoning them to the PBGC, the PBGC will be that much more hammered and that much less able to come to the aid of pensioners in a real emergency, as opposed to this manufactured one.

But the second dog is the bigger one. We need to enforce a moral bottom line here. When a company -- or a government -- enters into a good faith contractual agreement with its employees or its citizens to repay their lifelong loyalty with retirement benefits, that obligation must be held sacrosanct and inviolable. Playing with the pension money, borrowing against it recklessly, any kind of slippery ducking ought to put somebody in the pen.

Otherwise, you know what happens, right? If it's OK to screw the employees of AMR, it's OK to screw to anybody and everybody. Listen to those Republican presidential candidates. They are competing to see which one would gut Social Security faster.

The mere mention of the possibility of AMR skating on its pension obligations should send a chill down all our spines. When you put it in context, the full quote from AMR is especially scary:

"A company's Chapter 11 reorganization does not necessarily mean that a company's pension plan will be taken over or terminated, although that is a possible outcome."
I think we all recognize that kind of slick corporate screw-you tone and what it really means. It means Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes.

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Franklin Meade
Franklin Meade

Well American Airlines employee's guess you are about to get a taste of What it felt like for TWA  employee's in 2001/02.

Trevor G
Trevor G

I worked at AMR for almost 10 years and all I can say is that it is the absolute most mismanaged company I have every worked for in my 30+ years in the work force.  AMR is management is a total joke. 

JimS
JimS

Must admit this reminds me of my days as a member of the Newspaper Guild. Nobody wanted to be the committeeman, because the committeeman had to go to meetings after work while the rest of us were at the newspaper saloon. So the guy who volunteered was a guy wgho was angry because his stories never got front page play. Two weeks before the strike deadline, after eight months of "bargaining," we asked him how he was coming on the healthcare and pension issues. He said he hadn't gotten to those. We asked him at a big guild assembly what he and management had been talking about. He said they had been discussing his idea for a "fair play" committee made up of management and union  representatives to decide which stories should be played on One every day. The auditorium blew up. People were screaming, "Your stories don't get on One because your stories suck." When the strike vote came two weeks later, it was over the Fair Play issue. We voted not to strike, and we got screwed again on healthcare and pension. But I have always maintained that journalists are just exceptionally bad union members. If there was one right or concession we would go to the mat for, it would be the right to fire each other.

Jocelyne
Jocelyne

In 2006, Frontline did a very indepth review of UAL's bankruptcy, what it meant for its employees and how the 'creditors' lost ZERO $$ on this deal through the elimination of employee benefits, pensions and a multitude of other golden hand shakes protected by the bankruptcy court from being disclosed.Watch this very information FRONTLINE video on UAL and the bankruptcy, and it will give you a very good understand of what will happen here with my airline that I have retired from - AMRhttp://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/...

Jason456
Jason456

Get rid of of corporate greed who sit comfortably in their 9bedroom mansions counting their bonuses while we have nervous breakdowns because we will never ever get ahead.....

Wdrandco
Wdrandco

Do any ex-TWA employees think any of this sounds familiar??!! These guys all went to the same school!!

Adjustermarc
Adjustermarc

Stop the incessant whining. AAs unions have destroyed a great company and have landed morale in the toilet.

The vast majority of AA employees cry and whine that they hate the company, and hate their job, so why not get off of their lazy butts and go get a different job.

If you want the perks and big paychecks of an executive, then do some work. You don't see them crying to a union rep that they had to

Olie E
Olie E

It's all about leadership.. as in AMR's left the building the day Bob Crandall moved out. The AA was consistently the top dog in the industry. Then, along came Carty followed by Arpey. AA didn't report profit in either of those terms. So, after 10 years of too much discussion and not enough action by AA management, the perverbial s***t hit the fan and the retirees are left to figure some way to get out from under the landing gear of the new airplanes.

Vietnamtetvet1968
Vietnamtetvet1968

The events happening to American employees is systemic in the current business culture in America.  Sadly, the Wall Street culture of "get your's while you can" has left behind the sacred rules of "trusteeship" behind in business activities and replaced it with, what amounts to a license to steal without lawful consequences.

Today's "Code of Conduct" means do it and look the other way! 

This is clearly displayed when one looks back at the recent funding of broken companies in the TART money giveaways to big companies who violate the "trust" of it's shareholders and customers.   The investment houses, banks and insurance companies who received trillions of dollars to cover their malfeasance with monies they managed under a fiduciary responsibility.

Why should failed businesses be any different?  Why not remove the responsibilites with the full faith and credit on the backs of taxpayers.  It's become the American Way.

If I tell you that your lawful actions are not accountable and may be deferred to a system that penalizes the entire populace in a transfer of obligations then everyone and anyone will take advantage of that system.... and they have.

The most obvious and most publicized are marched off to prison while the majority have yet to even been named.

We can't look to government to solve every problem or there will be no one left to support such a fiat system of largess, corruption and lawlessnes.

American Airlines is but another example of what ails America.... greed.  It starts on Wall Street and Washington DC and like a cancer spreads across the heart of America.

Not one post here has uttered the term "ACCOUNTABILITY."

It's missing here in the comments and missing, today, in America.

Jilly
Jilly

How do you know if there is an American Airlines pilot at your party?  He will tell you.

How do you know when your party is half over?  The AA Captain will say:  "Enough about me, let me tell you about my airplane."

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin

scorned ex wife of a pilot?

Perry Moore
Perry Moore

The scorned ex-wife of an AA pilot probably would have received her share of the pilot's pension in the divorce settlement. That would make her the just about the only person in this scenario that doesn't have to worry about losing anything else.

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin

good point, probably a scorned girlfriend who fell for the whole Im a pilot story

Sa
Sa

Ha, lied about their pension costs, did they?  And the PBGC called them out on it.  Interesting.

dallasmay
dallasmay

JimS, 

Of course that is what they are going to do. That's what Bankruptcy means. It means broken promises. It means people get thrown under planes. 

US175guy
US175guy

I'm still wondering how much the local fire/police pensioners will get back out of that multi-mil condo project downtown. 

Good luck AMR retirees, sounds like you're gonna need it.

JimS
JimS

So Phelps. I agree to pay you 10 grand for your car. But when I get the house, I say, "man up and face the music, Phelps, you whining pussy. I only got six grand. The money is not there, Phelps, you sniveling weenie. Get real." And being the tough realist we know you want to be, you say, "OK, I can take it. Give me the six."why do you think a strong courageous people would let people shit on them all the time, Phelps? I don't get. You.

Anon
Anon

you'd probably just avoid getting into contractual agreements with people you don't trust.

and here's where the union leadership has failed at some level. the members have been getting shit on, what, for going on decades now? and yet when contract talks roll around they don't make their number one priority fully funding the pension program so that current and future retirees don't have to worry that there won't be enough money in it when AMR files bankruptcy. anyone who has any idea about the airline industry has known for some time that it was a question of when, not if. 

obviously it's not quite that simple, because that may not have been something the company was willing to do. maybe they would have had to strike. the point being, something else was clearly a higher priority at the time. now that they are in bankruptcy everyone is most worried about lost jobs and pensions. but that's something that they could have fought for. maybe they did. but maybe in the end they were willing to compromise on that issue in return for something else.

JimS
JimS

Must admit this reminds me of my days as a member of the Newspaper Guild. Nobody wanted to be the committeeman, because the committeeman had to go to meetings after work while the rest of us were at the newspaper saloon. So the guy who volunteered was a guy wgho was angry because his stories never got front page play. Two weeks before the strike deadline, after eight months of "bargaining," we asked him how he was coming on the healthcare and pension issues. He said he hadn't gotten to those. We asked him at a big guild assembly what he and management had been talking about. He said they had been discussing his idea for a "fair play" committee made up of management and union  representatives to decide which stories should be played on One every day. The auditorium blew up. People were screaming, "Your stories don't get on One because your stories suck." When the strike vote came two weeks later, it was over the Fair Play issue. We voted not to strike, and we got screwed again on healthcare and pension. But I have always maintained that journalists are just exceptionally bad union members. If there was one right or concession we would go to the mat for, it would be the right to fire each other.

Facebook User
Facebook User

In the United States we have decided that it is in the best interest of the people to allow corporations (and individuals) to be able to file for bankruptcy protection instead of simply shutting down. Bankruptcy allows a company that has failed to 'restart' for the benefit of the creditors (the employees often become creditors and often have preference over other creditors like vendors and landlords). Working with the court, a company in bankruptcy attempts to recover as much money for the creditors as possible. By law, paying one obligation over another MUST be in the best interest of the creditors.

We know AMR is a failed business. The company does not make money - instead it loses money every day, month and year it operates. No one was willing to continue to loan the company money to continue to operate at a loss. The company could be shuttered at the planes sold off, but the court believes the company can be reorganized to operate in such a way that it doesn't lose money. To do so, the company must terminate the various executory contracts that contribute to its monthly loss.

Pensions are simply executory contracts between two individuals (one being an employee and the other a corporation). Of course employees who earned pensions may feel that AMR would always be able to pay their obligation - turns out they were wrong. I am sure AMR's landlords, vendors and bankers assumed AMR would be able to pay their obligations as well. Why is it appropriate for AMR to default on a bank loan, but not on a penion benefit?

Employees (as well as other creditors) have an obligation to evaluate the risk associated with entering into executory contracts with their employers. If they believe the company might not be able to pay their future pension benefits the employee MUST negotiate a different form of compensation. Many employees have 401K accounts and negotiate agreements with their employers that require matching of employee contributions - sometimes 1:1 and sometimes 3:1. You can feel bad for the creditors in general. You can feel bad for the shareholders in general. But each took a risk they felt was worth it - the debtor estate should not be demonized.

JimS
JimS

The big fly in your ointment is this. Yes, MR freely entered into contractual obligations with its own emplyees, and it did the same with banks, airplane vendors and real estate developers, etc. But it didn't go around propagandizing its losses by saying, "Oh, tnose damn greedy banks and airplane makers and developers are gouging us." Instead they pedalled what they must have thought was a more politically palatable line, "Those damn greedy unions..." Now the PBGC is justifiably worried AMR is painting the same dishonest picture, banking on the availability of tax money as a sop, inorder to put its own employees at the back of the bankruptcy bus. It's a knife in the back of AMR employees and the country. Let the banks eat cake. Honor promises made to hard working people. Banks, by the way, are not people. They are banks.

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin

make no mistake, the union employees are the last seats in the bankruptcy bus, but all employees will be screwed in this thing. 

@ facebookuser, you are so wrong about employees, they do not get preferential treatment in bk, they become creditor, but they are creditors that get the scraps after all the big banks and lenders/vendors get paid.

Mister_Mean
Mister_Mean

"Before a single employee is stripped of a single dollar in AMR pension money, all of the Gekkos running the place need to be stripped of their mansions and their maids, their Maseratis and their executive hostesses."

AMEN *100000

Alfredo
Alfredo

The PBGC was set up in the 70s to cover situations where a company goes bankrupt and the PBGC would take over the bankrupt company's pension obligations.  Part of the problem is the PBGC only pays benefits to a certain level, currently 54K per year and some of the AA pensions are probably greater than 54k.  The "moral obligation" that JS talks about is the PBGC.  JS claims this is a manufactured crisis but the Court can always dismiss the bankrupcy petition if AA isn't really bankrupt.

The PBGC is a program to honor a company's pension committment to it's workers.  No matter how you cut it some US companies are going to go bankrupt.  Who would have ever thought 30 years ago that GMC would go under.

PBGC is worried about getting the AA pensions because they are already running a deficit.

If somebody has a better suggestion than the PBGC to continue a bankrupt company's pension program, please share it with us.  Public execution of AA executives is probably not a viable option

Paul
Paul

"Public execution of AA executives is probably not a viable option."

Can we send the bill for the bullet to their next of kin?

Carl
Carl

Jim, an excellent summary of not only the status of the pension issues, but the bigger issues of a company that did not lose it's moral compass but in fact threw it away.  Shame on them.

Edward
Edward

There's an excellent (and depressing) book about how companies have been ripping off their pension plans: Retirement Heist: How Companies Plunder and Profit from the Nest Eggs of American Workers

Really sobering stuff. And a crystal clear example of the 1% screwing over everyone else.

Oak Cliff Townie
Oak Cliff Townie

Its Bankruptcy  all of it is on the table Frequent  Flyer Miles are a promotional give away. If They exist it will be for as  long as the Bankruptcy court allows them to exist.What are those folks who have them going to do File a Lawsuit ?The Airline can't pay the Widows and Orphans and these folks expect to fly Free ?

I doubt any company that buys American Airlines will honor them Mile for Mile Thats is just one more bitter pill Americans Customers are going to have to swallow .

Anon
Anon

The last thing to get cut will be miles and rewards programs. If you are someone who spends enough time on an American plane to care about how many miles you have, you spend a lot of time in the air each year. In which case you are the bread and butter customer. Nothing would drive them away faster than backing out on the miles. No one is acquiring AMR but if they were, they would honor every damn mile. No judge will get rid of them either. Just won't happen.

Jilly
Jilly

Are you stoned?  Those miles are a huge liability (you old accounting major, you) that could very well be discharged as unsecured......and tho those who "won't fly America" if the miles bite the bullet, you are also wrong Carnak.  The customers will STILL be there: this is life in the new Century- not every consumer bet is going to work out, douche.

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin

Have you EVER even followed an airline Chapter 11 before?  

Oak Cliff Townie
Oak Cliff Townie

Miles and Rewards promotions ( not so good when the company is swimming in red ink ) just like Unfunded pensions are Liabilities .There are wolves at the door right now.Besides with its history I really don't see American successfully Navigating out of this Bankruptcy any better than Braniff did years ago. 

Phelps
Phelps

Here's the real problem, Jim.  It's the same one being addressed by those Evil Republicans "gutting" Social Security.  

You've run out of other people's money.

"There is some formula by which that bankruptcy judge can slice the pie, keep the company alive and keep its pension funds intact, and AMR shouldn't be allowed to set a toe outside the courtroom again until that formula has been found."  How do you figure?  Because Jim Says So and that makes it real?  Sounds an awful lot like "The workers control the means of production."  

The money's not there.  It never was going to be.  The only way it could be is if you boomers kept having as many kids as your parents did, and kept raising them with the same values they had.  Guess what?  Your generation failed at both.  You've made your bed, and now you get to lie in it.  My generation will keep doing what we've always known we would have to -- we're putting what we can in 401Ks, we're planning to work as long as we can, and are acknowledging that Social Security and unfunded pensions are ponzi schemes that will collapse before we get there, and were never anything else.

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin

You know 401k was introduced in 1978, all these boomers who are bitching about tnot being able to survive w/o their full benefit, can only blame themselves.  Doesnt the "if it sounds to good to be true it probably is" ring true here.  I mean a company tells you they will give you full retirement benefits at no cost to you for your whole life, Id laugh.  Maybe my generation has been raised differently than the previous, but when I first got in the workforce and company told me that they had a pension plan, that didnt stop me from doing a 401k as well.  Who knows if these companies that offer pensions will ever even be around when the time comes to collect

cp
cp

So...... how did your boomer parents raise you differently than their Greatest Generation parents raise them? 

Anon
Anon

I don't think they can ONLY blame themselves. The meteoric rise in healthcare costs is to blame for lots of it because no one built into their models that it would rise faster than inflation for decades.

Jim Bob Guthrie
Jim Bob Guthrie

The "other people's money" issue really doesn't apply here.  AMR pension holders earned their pensions during their years of service for that company.  It was a part of their compensation package and their contract with the airline.  Now AMR doesn't want to uphold its word anymore because its run out of other peoples (the customer's) money.

The pension holder and the company had a contract-- a promise. The employee upheld his promise working for the company.  AMR should uphold its promise to pay under that promise. 

When two private parties agree to a promise -- it isn't socialism.  It's the very essence of capitalism. 

Anon
Anon

But they didn't actually make AMR put the money into the pension fund. They allowed them to underfund it by promising that at some point in the future they'd catch up, and n any event, they figured if worst came to worst they'd expense the payments out of the operating budgets if needed. A promise is only worth what the other side is able to pay. This isn't something any individual employee may have known. Governments do this as well, although they are legally allowed to hide the unfunded liabilities. At least companies are forced to do some fancy accounting tricks to make their liabilities look clean. The government just gets to pretend they don't exist.

Phelps
Phelps

I understand the contract.  What we are looking at here is, "I don't have the money to honor the contract."  That's it.  Continue paying, go out of business, and stop paying.  OR, stop paying, and stay in business.  

That's the choice the court has.  Let the patient lumber on a little while longer for the benefit of the pensioners, and eventually kill the company and put all of the current employees out of work, or drop the pensioners and keep a viable company for the current employees.

But, Jim is right on with the rest of the boomer mentality.  "Fuck the kids, I need a Winnebago now!"

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin

again CP, show me, quote me, point me to where I ever said anything about paying ridiculous top dollar for top leadership!  stop putting words in my mouth

cp
cp

You said that the only way for American to attract top leadership is to pay ridiculously stupid top dollar. The point of Jim's story is about GREED. I was simply pointing out that, while people (top managers, etc. ) deserve to be compensated, we (as a culture, a moral and meritorious culture) should hold down a line on what's too much. And throwing employees under the plane while top execs live in Park Ave. flats and have vacation homes across the globe, private jets and security, is, well..... just a little bullshit. No one would complain if they lived in "modest" homes in the Hamptons and drive themselves to the office, but that's not the case, now is it?? THAT is the entire point of Jim's story! What do they deserve and how would they run AMR without all that? That's a load of crap! You assume that people would be shitty managers if the weren't paid millions and millions of dollars. That's bunk! 

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin

Cp, please please please show me, i mean point me to the spot where i said anything about paying millions and golden parachutes. Quit fucking putting words in my mouth. In fact arpey left with nothing

cp
cp

The PGBC guy in the article is saying that AMR's pension funds are LESS than what others airlines pay. AMR is crying poor-mouth because of its employees? That's complete BS and everyone knows it. Unless you're like ScottsMerkin and think that the ONLY way AMR will attract top management is to offer them millions of dollars in salary and golden parachute...

I think business schools should require classes on what Jim is talking about here: morality and greed. I'm not talking about denying rich people their ability to be rich, but come on, when is too much, too much? A house in the Hamptons, and lodge in Apline, and a villa in Switzerland, a yacht and a private jet? Yeah those execs NEED all those things. 

Honeybee
Honeybee

My 66-yr-old mother has worked for American for decades.

And now, this.

She has worked countless Christmases and every other holiday bc it was her job and she knew the rules going into it.  She isn't rude to people or a slacker.  She likes her job and is a good employee.

She's stayed with American because of her pension.

This isn't about multi-million dollar bonuses for the average employees; this is about American shoving the responsibility for feeding and clothing their retirees onto the public dole so a few execs and their families can pillage the system.

Jilly
Jilly

Honeybee- this is LIFE. 

Sorry for the wake up call, but you better clear out that 2nd bedroom! 

Most all AA employees all thought Arpey was so smart, so cute and so much an Airplane Guy (he has a multi engine rating).  What he was NOT was a genius- he should have shoved AA through through bankruptcy years ago, instead of that "high road" baloney. 

When the comps in your neighborhood start going down (as in:  every other airline company makes a trip or two through bankruptcy), you better follow suit: other wise you have the nicest house in the ghetto.  In such cases, you get nothing from casual observers except a fat "what were you thinking?"

Talk to millions of other out of work 60+ year old employees, reality bites.  But at least Arpey was cute (PS- this was always the drum beat about Arpey, donchaknow?)

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin

I sense an out of work 60+ crazy lady with 4 cats

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin

the pillagers are all the companies AMR is bringing in to help it through bankruptcy, look at the private lawfirms and equity houses.  They are all guaranteed pay monthly and large bonus checks on exit of bankruptcy

Wylie H.
Wylie H.

There are a few reasons other airlines don't like DFW Airport:

1). Its layout is not well-suited to non-hub operations. Taxi times between gate and runway are extremely long, particularly if a plane is required to cross to the opposite side of the airport. AA can afford the trade-off, since it enables it to run its hub; other airlines, not so much.

2). The AA flight "banks" cause even longer delays for certain flights. If a plane gets caught up in one of the departing "banks" of AA flights (which peak several times each day), it can face extraordinary delays to takeoff behind a conga line of AA planes.

3). AA has enjoyed a sweetheart lease arrangement on Terminals A & C which allows it to master lease all the retail space at a low rate and turn around and sublease the space for a huge markup. This gives it a significant cost advantage over other airlines operating at DFW, since AA is able to use these sublease profits to subsidize its landing fees and gate charges.

4). Other airlines are forced to subsidize the wildly expensive Skylink inter-terminal train, even though over 99% of its users are AA employees and passengers making connections from one terminal to another. All of the other airlines operate out of only a handful of gates and have no use for the Skylink. By requiring all airlines to share the cost, these competitors are forced to subsidize AA's hub operation, placing them at a cost disadvantage.

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin

so you dont think the exact opposite is true at other airlines hubs, like Atlanta and Delta or United/continental at Houston?

cp
cp

So? Are those other airlines in bankruptcy court right now? You asked the question earlier and I suspect that it was aimed specifically at Southwest. 

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin

Hey Jilly bitch, have a point ok! Nope, not a captain or even pilot here. though I wish I were so I could pull in $180k a year and have that pension

Jilly
Jilly

Hey closet AA captain ScottsMerkin: use a little spell-check, will you?  And while you are at it, have a point. 

cp
cp

It's not pointless and it is also irrelevant when the point (the whole reason for Jim's story, that is) is about airline greed while the execs (who are majillioaires, I mean do YOU have three houses, maid and expensive cars??) blame the pensions of the employees who a) keep passengers safe; b) keep passengers happy and c) work for ungrateful, sarcastic customers AND management. No, I am not an airline employee, but this is fucking bullshit.  

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin

because you asked if other airline were in bankruptcy right now, thats how!  you argue in cirlces, I try to really like you CP, but when you cant keep up with the questions you asked and how they are relevant then its pointless

cp
cp

Why is that even relevant to this conversation? 

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin

Im not bashing southwest, im defending american. And although no other NON LCC carrier is in bk right now, they ALL have filed in the last 10 yrs

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