Deep Ellum Is "No Place to Put These Kids in the Afternoon After They Get Outta School"

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Photos by Anna Merlan
A map, posted last night on the wall of the Deep Ellum Foundation offices, showing all the properties potentially affected by Uplift's move into the neighborhood
At this point, Deep Ellum could easily star in its own Rocky-style franchise, given how many times it's been knocked down and still managed to stagger back to its feet. As we've mentioned, the latest worry for business owners in the area comes in the form of some 900 schoolchildren: Uplift Education, is, in the words of CEO Yasmin Bhatia, "all systems go" to launch a new charter middle and high school, Laureate Prep, at 2625 Elm Street on August 2.

Which is why the Deep Ellum Foundation's HQ on Commerce was packed last night, with people spilling out onto the sidewalk and sitting on the floor as DEF president Barry Annino and a couple of reps from the city tried to field questions about what a school could mean for the 'hood. Nobody in the room seemed very optimistic, except for the two brokers in charge of selling the building.

To refresh: The worry is that city laws that prevent the sale of alcohol 300 feet from a school could prevent new businesses from opening, or existing ones from renewing their SUPs. As Theresa O'Donnell, head of the city's department of Sustainable Development and Construction, and Assistant City Attorney John Rogers explained, existing businesses with alcohol permits won't be affected. Businesses that sell or transfer to a new owner will also be "grandfathered in," and some grocery stores, convenience stores and restaurants can also apply for variances. The real issue would be for any brand-new bar or restaurant coming in: The front door of any new booze-having establishment can't have a front door directly facing the school.

Annino had one immediate question for the city reps: "How can we waive that 300-foot rule?"

"Only the city council has the right to waive that rule," Rogers replied.

"So, basically," Annino said, "no more live music on Elm Street and no more new venues?"

DeepEllumPropertyOwnersMeeting.jpg
Just some of the Deep Ellum property and business owners in attendance last night
The city reps said live music won't be a problem on its own; dance-hall permits don't have school zone restrictions. But yes, they acknowledged, new venues who want liquor licenses could face some problems.

"That doesn't seem right," an audience member said with dismay. "Why don't they have to have an SUP to get that school open?"

"They have a right to buy the building and to have a school," O'Donnell replied.

Longtime Deep Ellum real estate developer Don Cass worried aloud that the project could lead to another wave of closures in the neighborhood. Thirty years ago, he said, "Deep Ellum was something that was a bunch of boarded-up buildings that weren't good for anything but to tear down. We've worked hard to build something we can be proud of."

Cass, who said he's opened two drug rehab centers for teens, added that he "doesn't have anything against schools or kids. ... But there are places they shouldn't learn and grow. This is no place, I repeat, no place to put these kids in the afternoon after they get outta school."

As he spoke, he looked out at the crowded room. "Are y'all gonna stand up?" he asked. "Are we gonna hear from ya?" He got a wave of applause in response.

Another developer asked what it would take for Deep Ellum to amend their PD to specifically exclude schools.

"That's a possibility," Rogers said. But it would take a least a year, he added, with public hearings and City Plan Commission appearances. By which point the school would have been long open.

"Basically, they could outrun us," someone else added, sounding deflated.

"Does the city agree this is an appropriate place for a school?" someone else asked O'Donnell.

"Schools are a permitted use under the zoning laws," O'Donnell replied, after a moment's pause. "That's not our role. I don't mean to sidestep your question, but it's allowed by right." She said, though, that when the original PD 20 years ago allowed schools in the area, "they were probably thinking more of an art institute or a community college."

"It's a growing neighborhood now," she said, "and it's a painful transformation."

For the moment, Deep Ellum business owners plan to focus on fighting the parking variance that Uplift's asking for from the Board of Adjustment, which, if granted, would allow them to shed 49 of more than 200 spaces that come with the building. Annino also encouraged the audience to let city council member Pauline Medrano, whose district includes Deep Ellum, know how they feel about the project. "I think you guys know we mean business," he told the city reps. "This neighborhood cares."

Brokers for Hudson Peters also attended the meeting. They represent the current owner of the building, Nashville-based HRT Properties of Texas, and had a much sunnier view of the project.

"We think the school's gonna add a lot of jobs to the area," Cincha Kostman told us afterwards (though she and her partner both declined to provide their names, adding five minutes on to my work day finding them). HRT bought the building as part of a portfolio from Baylor, she said, "and they do want to sell it. It's not a medical building."

"A school could be a great addition to the neighborhood," added the other broker, Sanober Syed. "Everybody just needs to find out more information."

Cass had a different view. "Kids are important," he told us. "And the point is to put them in an area away from drugs and alcohol. You put these kids down here, they're not going home when school's over. They're gonna get into bars, the bar's gonna get busted, and they're gonna lose their liquor license."

A school on that block, he said, "is just wrong. It's wrong on every basis."

"We're not against education and we're not against schools," added artist Frank Campagna. "But it's almost like we're being bullied. It's really better to work with people, especially when you're talking about so many people's livelihoods."

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164 comments
Tee1143
Tee1143

Putting Peak Prep and Can Academy in the same sentence alone iS an epic fail. Lol One is a school of kids trying to escape the chaos of underperforming schools and are held to high standards, the other is comprised mostly of those that were causing the problems and have gotten so far behind they take a very brief crash course of classes to usher them out of the door with some kind of diploma and out of everyone's hair. These are definitely not children of the same mindset.

Tee1143
Tee1143

Why is it necessary to point out the upper middle class. As if being of a certain class makes one less likely to do something wrong? Please! These children usually just have the benefit of parents with clout and a good lawyer to hide their indiscretions. This is a matter way beyond class.

Tee1143
Tee1143

Soooo what's stopping any other high school or middle school student from flocking into the bars? Oh right, people checking ID and doing their jobs. I seriously don't think that is what these children are going to have on their minds after school. Uplift services a number of disadvantaged families it's likely they pass a liquor store or two in their neighborhoods already yet instead of becoming drunks they have chosen to go out of their way to seek quality education. I do feel that it's wrong not to allow new businesses to have liquor because the school is there but allow a school to move into the parameters of the existing bars. If the rule is 300ft then it should apply to a new school coming in as well or remove the law altogether. Now what really bugs me is trying to figure out why there is a naked woman atop a cow on the building next to the Dallas World Aquarium where children and families from all over come to visit daily. There are beer advertisements all over tv and billboards but what's with the naked lady?

Nightlifebaker
Nightlifebaker

anyone else see a penis when they look at the map

Typical Dallas Driver
Typical Dallas Driver

I'm all for it.  I was getting tired of using for target practice the same old tired faux-yuppy-hipsters in spandex on their bicycles around White Rock.  These new targets are smaller and faster.  

Saridout
Saridout

Forgive me if this has already been brought up, but wouldn't this be an excellent use of the Crozier Tech building?

Its So Sad
Its So Sad

I like the JWP approach.Use delays & requests for more studies to kill it.Get some "Warriors" to picket the area. Carry crappy signs, walk real slow, block traffic, make a nuisance of yourselves.If there are annoying people outside the building at 8:00 am & 4:00 pm, how many parents are going to want to register their children in the school? If Uplift is dumb enough to build a high school in a bar district, just make sure that all the interested parents know how 'dangerous' the area is!

It's a charter school. No attendance zone. It's a business. If they can't get customers, they will close.

Wow. Talk about having to "fight for your neighborhood!"

Chevytexas
Chevytexas

I just thought of something: there's already Peak Academy at Bryan/Peak and it's surrounded by restaurants, so is it only bars serving liquor as opposed to restaurants in the restriction?

Chevytexas
Chevytexas

Bars and permits aside, anyone who'd build a school in the Afternoon Expressway for Angry Van Zandt County Commuters is putting those kids in danger. I don't even like to drive home myself that way when every yahoo who doesn't want to use an expressway hauls ass at up to 50 mph. I don't think a 20mph "School Zone" is going to save all of those kids' lives.

NONE
NONE

the plan is to ultimately get Deep Elm back into the total ghetto that it was in the 1950s.....keep on truckin city planners.....circular firing squad.....the Blind leading the Deaf.

Fro
Fro

Holy Sheep Sh!t.  This is crazy. 1st They ban graffiti art from the parking lot by the sushi restaurant on Elm, then they take away the awesome graffiti tunnel on N.Good Latimer Expy near Elm. OH, and let’s not forget the heart break when TREES closed for a while; when I saw it for myself, it seriously hurt my soul. Then when they finally reopened, it was the light at the end of a long tunnel. Once again, I could feel the life in Deep Ellum growing again. Now they’re trying to shut down one of the major historical chunks of downtown Dallas, Texas. That’s just cold blooded. I know Deep Ellum needs some building maintenance and some more businesses to help with it, but don't flip a 180 on us. There lots of other areas a school would be able to thrive, but putting one in the Deep Ellum area would just cause massive problems for both the school and the community of Deep Ellum. I'm not against schools, but it’s just really not a cool move to crush all that the Deep Ellum community has worked hard for, for years and years. I know some people might think that a school is just what the area needs to perk up the place; I say to that "you’re lazy and disrespectful". If you want Deep Ellum to look better, then use your time to join with the others that have been fighting for the restoring of Deep Ellum. Saying yes to a quick fix, by inserting a school to clean up the area, is just down right disrespectful of all that the community has worked for; because your quick fix will crush all those years of hard work, time, money, devotion, and basically spit on the blood and tears shed by the community of Deep Ellum.  If there is anything I can do to stop this or even convince the school that there is other areas that would be better for everyone, then let me know and I’ll do what I can to help.

Donna Harris
Donna Harris

Something else has been bugging me about the rush of this Charter School in Deep Ellum and it finally hit me. As a former DISD parent, let's put kids + bars aside, and look at the bigger student migration picture.

Upon further investigation, it seems Deep Ellum is split between two DISD high school districts including North Dallas High School and James Madison, which seems odd that this has not been corrected, given the growth of Uptown. DE is represented by Bernadette Nutall for James Madison and Mike Morath for  North Dallas High School. Having two school representatives in one small neighborhood is terrible. If DE  grows with families, the neighborhood should look at petitioning DISD and the courts to redistrict the high schools for Deep Ellum or build a high school nearby, in anticipation of growth.  Adding a third high school, that neighborhood kids may or may not be able to attend, seems unproductive. It doesn't make sense that DE be located in Madison or NDHS boundaries, since neither can be accessed without crossing highways. Given how large the boundary of NDHS is and how the population has shifted, I'm assuming North Dallas is very overcrowded. That makes sense.  That would be the only reason to theoretically agree, with a school in Deep Ellum, BUT ONLY IF, Deep Ellum kids are guaranteed automatic acceptance. The location is still not appropriate and another location in Deep Ellum would be better for the city economically. Also, South Dallas has voted in favor of many, many initiatives, on behalf of the private business of UpLifts board of directors. It seems more appropriate that South Dallas, where families already live, should deserve this opportunity of the Charter School, while DE petitions to resolve the boundary problem, in anticipation of possible student growth. This is a much bigger issue!  I hope our leaders will go WHOOOOOOAAAAAAH before succumbing to political pressure!  We need to look at our schools boundaries in this one neighborhood, before granting UpLift the variance. Hello DISD! You should be looking out to protect our student population and budget by reconfiguring some of the high school boundaries so we don't lose kids in Deep Ellum to Charter schools. Bucking under pressure to alleviate overcrowding at NDHS, by standing in silence and looking the other way, while a Charter goes up in your own district is disappointing. Tell me Mike Morath, why are you silent?  I'm pointing you out specifically Mike, because NDHS and UpLift are coincidentally, in your district.

cat
cat

what don't understand, is why the zoning rule doesn't go both ways.  If you can't build a bar w/in 300 ft of a school, why are you able to build a school w/in 300 ft of an established bar/venue which furnishes alcohol? 

Gregbasden
Gregbasden

Why would you ever put a school down there? This is insane! Deep Ellum is finally coming back and to derail that is a shame. The school should be sensitive to  the community and look for another location.

John
John

Charter schools serve a real need for a lot of students, regardless of their ultimate goals to acquire real estate. I know a lot of the bar owners in Deep Ellum, am thrilled that they've invested so much in rebuilding the community, but they are getting way too worked up over this one. They have a right to occupy that space. Plain and simple. If its inappropriate use, then continue to protest til you're blue in the face, but they still have the right to use that space regardless of how it may hinder hypothetical growth to the community.  I know it hurts to hear, but I'm a big fan of Deep Ellum, I play down there a bunch, but a charter school saved my life and stopped me from being a high-school dropout, so in my humble opinion its a viable use of the space. Although its certainly worth protesting their 1000 ft and 300 ft restrictions on new alcohol serving businesses, to attempt to keep the school completely out of the area is wrong. It could really help struggling youths.

AlcoholAttorney
AlcoholAttorney

Now is the time or the alcohol permit to secure & plan or the future with their existing permits.

Jheimberg
Jheimberg

Who are the kids the school is serving? Where are they coming from? Local? Has anyone seen a study on the location choice?

Deanna Murach Echols
Deanna Murach Echols

Those of us who are opposed to the school are just trying to express our opinions just like the supporters. I find some of these comments very rude & disrespectful. Some of these posts are unfairly judging/attacking legitimate ADULT business people & Deep Ellum patrons.  As I said before, a great deal of my concerns are for the business owners who have invested their lives & income improving the area. The point has been made that there are several vacant buildings that were designed to be schools & I am in agreement that at least one of them should be able to be rehabbed for this purpose. If it does come down to that not being a viable option, then there are plenty of available areas just far enough outside of Deep Ellum to not affect the existing set up.My booking & artist management agency business in Deep Ellum has nothing to do with reliving my youth... it has to do with business. I can objectively say that most of us are not asking grunge to come back... most of my artists are blues, southern rock, indie or country. In my youth, I was in school & working. I got my first volunteer job at age 13 & a paying job at 16. I graduated with a real diploma from a real high school.  On most occasions that I am & have been in Deep Ellum I do not consume alcohol. I do drink bottled water & soft drinks at the bar. I make it a point to visit Cafe Brazil for coffee, smoothies & meals. Not only am I working, I am a consumer. I went to 2-3 "rock shows" in Deep Ellum between ages 15-30 so I really cannot say that my memories are imposing on Deep Ellum. My opinion is not biased...I am an industry professional AND the parent of an extremely bright 14 year old boy who has troubles at school. I am seriously considering taking my son out of public school in favor of a charter, magnet or private school. I have nothing bad to say about public schools, it works great for my friends children, it just isn't working out for my family. I am still weighing my options, but i know for sure I would not want him in Deep Ellum any more than I would want him in the Fort Worth Stockyards. I moved to Texas from Las Vegas in my early teen years. My 9th grade year of school my high school was 2 blocks from the Las Vegas strip. Fortunately for my parents I chose not to take my friends up on the invites to skip school to go run around downtown. Where school placement is concerned I am a proponent of "Lead us not in to temptation..." 

Sidewalkastronomer
Sidewalkastronomer

Any one notice this building is just a few feet from Dart rail tracks. The trains blow their whistles all day at the crossing near the building. I sure the students will be able to feel the building shake some by the pasting trains. Not the greatest spot if you don't want distractions . The rent must be cheap for them to want that spot.

Mic
Mic

Looks like this is going to happen either way, which is bull, but no suprise. Someone needs to  open an all ages club on elm. Give those lil angels a place to go after school to stay out of trouble. Call it Magnet, because that is what it would be. How to make money off it...good fn luck.

Intellectualdiot
Intellectualdiot

I was going to write something witty, something that would've really put both sides of the argument into their proper context, but I'm suddenly overwhelmed by feelings of dread and panic. Fearmongering will do that to you.

There are a few real issues here (whether or not, as has been suggested, the parties can work together in relation to the germane Texas Alcoholic Beverage Code ordinance(s) toward the mutually beneficial "no contest" stance for the businesses within the 300 ft. no-sale radius) but much the necessary debate has been obfuscated by silly rhetoric. Deep Ellum's failures are well-documented and I'll be the first one to admit that the area's prospects for long-term sustainability are still precariously unsettled, but I'm not certain that adding a school will do much to kill any momentum currently circulating through the neighborhood. It takes more than a collection of storefronts and bars to make an area compelling, and the real treasure, the people themselves, won't be altered by such a superficial addition.

That said, Uplift seems to be passing on the opportunity to demonstrate their worth to the area in a meaningful way. I'm ambivalent toward the prospect of using that space for a school as I'm not certain how it directly benefits the area - too much of the debate has been framed in the context of the damage that it could potential wreak upon Deep Ellum's ecosphere. If they can't introduce a school to the neighborhood in a manner that respects its pre-existing culture without trying to alienate and alter it, then I can't in good conscience support the proposition.

Travis Rex
Travis Rex

And what happens to things like the Deep Ellum Art Festival?  People start in about 3-4 on the Friday and drink in public till Sunday night...one assumes that the school and their security are just going to look the other way?

holman
holman

Pick up and drop off will jam up Elm every day.

LaceyB
LaceyB

It isn't the worst place to have kids in the afternoon. They can learn about how to bum a cigarette (or just say "no cigarettes, no money!"), the after-effects of alcoholism, maybe mumbled gibberish as a 2nd language. Kinda like spending all afternoon around Elm & Lamar.

Rangers100
Rangers100

This comment section will be fun to revisit a couple years from now when the school is in and Deep Ellum is just fine and really no different than it was before.

Dallas Dad
Dallas Dad

Charter schools like to buy valuable properties so when the school goes under the investors can sell it off for a profit.

This is no place for a school. Go somewhere else Uplift!

Gabe
Gabe

What bit that would help would be to create a incorporation (with an identical board to the school's) that purchases the parking lot and leases it to the school for $1 a month. That way it's not "school property" and would at least shrink the affected area quite a bit.  

Justin Julian
Justin Julian

Either the reporting on this has been universally bad, or nobody has used their brain to point out some of the reasons this kind of ordinance exists.

This is a 6-12 school.  HIGH SCHOOL.  Most of those kids don't necessarily look like kids anymore.

What happens the first time a high school girl who looks somewhere on the border of legal and illegal gets propositioned on the street by a bar patron?

What happens the first time a bunch of seniors with really good fake id's get into a bar and get caught by someone other than the bar owner?

What happens the first time a student has an accident with a patron who's had too much to drink?  (16-year-olds can drive, folks.)  

What happens the first time a venue right across the street has their windows open (they do this) while a band is performing and the school is holding a special event, and parents/students are assaulted by foul language coming from the stage?  

Considering what the city has planned for DE (whether the people who live and work in DE like it or not) what happens when the school's operations muck up the impending construction and parking nightmares even worse, further driving business away from the existing bars and restaurants?

Just extrapolate this logically.  Push it out a bit.  Try to come up with more 'what happens' and see just how badly you can scare yourself.

The corporation behind this (this is NOT a public school) doesn't give two shits about Deep Ellum.  The CEO makes that clear by saying nonsensical things like 'one of our schools has a strip club a half-mile away'.  Great, that's a half-mile, you sack of crap, not ACROSS THE STREET.  They want this spot because it's cheap and it's relatively close to their primary school nearby.  They do NOT care about anyone by their own profits.  An empty Deep Ellum with only their school up and running is just fine by them.  They have no interest whatsoever in the existing businesses, in developing new businesses, or being a good neighbor.  

WAKE UP folks.  As someone involved with a Deep Ellum business and active in the community for a few years now, this couldn't be more clear.  The city is behaving as if they have no say in the matter, while they abuse their power to run legitimate businesses out over on Greenville.  We need to hammer city hall until they actually do something about this.

Raubin
Raubin

How many people complaining about the "Deep Ellum I know and love" have actually been there with any regularity in the past five years?  That Deep Ellum is gone folks. I work on the edge of DE, eat there almost every day for lunch and drive through it most nights.  There's no great resurgence going on - eateries, bars and clubs cycle through on a regular basis.  One place opens, another closes. Many buildings are empty and DE needs a jump start - Knights of Pythias Temple is rotting, the building across the street had a roof collapse, the list goes on and on.

Sure it's far better than the dance hall days that nearly killed it, but DE is not coming back as "the" adult entertainment district or 6th Street of Dallas.  The cool kids are in Victory, or Lower Greenville, or West Village, or Uptown - the competition is much broader now.  And DE is broader too - food and music, for sure - but art galleries, condos and more.The only way out is through and this may well be DE's lifeline.  Uplift runs pretty good schools from what I have read (Peak Academy is ranked #11 nationally among public schools) and this may be the chance to draw a mass of people into the area - workers, parents and kids who will grow up knowing and loving DE.

DISD Teacher
DISD Teacher

They--the trustees- want the charters.

The charter people will donate money to their campaign coffers.I believe that's already happened with Edwin Flores' campaign account.

The state of DISD does not matter to most of the trustees.

Donna Harris
Donna Harris

Do you guys need me to reprogram the Observer, so it accepts copy and paste....

Travis Rex
Travis Rex

 Um..I thought these weren't "struggling youths"..I understood they were merely the mediocre ones that didn't make it into TAG.

Travis Rex
Travis Rex

unfortunately he doesn't really address the relevant issues...try again.

MattL1
MattL1

I hear what you're saying.  My big problem with Uplift right now is that their rhetoric has been TOO spot-on.  The core mission of a school cannot, at all times, jive with that of a bar.  Their attitude seems to be, "trust us, we'll respect the neighborhood."  It just sounds too good to be true.  In my experience, such things usually are.  

DISD Teacher
DISD Teacher

Plus, there are frequently school events that go on in the evening.

Also, check and see what time Uplift kids are released in the afternoon and how many Saturdays the school will be open with kid inside.

I'm pretty sure these kids aren't released at 3.

Edward
Edward

I wonder which company is funding the PR efforts on this. 

I mean, someone has to be paying the "oh don't worry, nothing to see here" people to sit around all day and respond to blog posts, right?

Rangers100
Rangers100

Do you live in Deep Ellum?  Or do you go somewhere else after work?

Notme
Notme

What will happen if a sixteen-year-old gets a fake ID like I did? What will happen if they take that ID to Tiggers and gets a tattoo like I did?What will happen if they buy papers at the head shop like I did?What will happen if they get into bars and live life like I did?What will happen if they get laid in the bathroom at DaDa like I did?What will happen if they get into bar fights like I did?

Evan
Evan

"The cool kids are in Victory" - No, no one is at Victory.

And the people talking up DE are right - it is not what it used to be, but it's worlds better than it has been in the last (near) decade. Places close down and new ones pop up, but that's business - it happens on Greenville, on McKinney, and on Henderson.

Downtown Resident
Downtown Resident

The cool kids are in Victory and Lower Greenville? You are either trolling or out of touch by about 7 years. With the exception of the Libertine all the good bars have been run out LG and Victory Park... I'm still scratching my head on that one, the only time people go to Ghost Bar is when they want to see a Kardashian that was paid a several thousand to make an appearance. How far north of 635 do you currently live?

How can you actually say there is no resurgence? Do you not remember that decade long stretch when Trees wasn't open? Elm Street actually has the kind of traffic it had in the late 90s. I don't need Deep Ellum to be what it was 15 years ago but it should still be a place for the misfits to hang out. Not everybody should be forced to intermingle in West Village (which is pretty nice in it's own right.)

When are you and Ranger100 gonna wake up and realize that you're getting punked out by the real estate developers?

Ricardo
Ricardo

I guess you're the king of Deep Ellum and we should heed everything you say. Give me a break. You say there's not a resurgence going on? What about all the new venues that have opened up? Serious Pizza, Anvil, La Grange, Uncle Ubers, Buzzwells, The Free Man, Il Cane Rosso, Lemongreass, Kettle Art, the new Club Dada, Henderson's Chicken (opening soon), and I'm sure a lot more that I can't remember. Not to mention the many establishments that have been there through the thick and thin.

There are building that are in need of repair, and some may need to be torn down due to structural damage. That's not the issue being discussed here. What residents and business owners are concerned about is the future of the neighborhood. You think that having a school in the middle of Deep Ellum is going to give it a jump start? Please enlighten us on your business model, seeing that you have all the answers.

As far as "the Deep Ellum I know and love"... I don't think anyone here has said anything about the way it was... we're talking about the way it is now, and what it can become in the future.

Rangers100
Rangers100

The "cool" kids definitely aren't in Uptown, but other than that, agreed.  

I think most of the people freaking out about this the most are like the commenter below who lives in Lewisville. 

Real cities aren't comprised of single-use "districts."

Edward
Edward

Deep Ellum might not be "the way it was", but it's been doing just fine. But the businesses that have been successful there might not be after a school moves in, with all the liquor law requirements that come with it.

And the question has nothing to do with whether Uplift runs good schools or not. To me, the question is "Why is it okay for a school to move in to an entertainment district, and then begin to dictate what can and cannot be in that district"? Because that's the end result.

Notme
Notme

Here here. Deep Ellum as we knew it is dead. Long dead. Grunge isn't coming back. Pay phones are a thing of the past. This rehash isn't even as good as the remake of the day the earth stood still. Move on. That neighborhood will do better free of you imposing your memories on it. If you refer to Deep Ellum in the old days you're at least 35. If you're younger you had a fake ID. Your childhoods are over. Quit whining.

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin

wrong, the cool kids are spread out amongst the vast burbs of DFW, Uptown, West Village is a bunch of douchenozzle trust fund babies!  Deep Ellum gives the burbs kids a place to go when they come to Dallas. 

40ozerandahamsammich
40ozerandahamsammich

If the cool kids are in the West Village and Uptown areas...WE ARE ALL DOOMED

Branden Helms
Branden Helms

What did I not address? The lunacy that Charter kids are going to behave like Alternative school kids? You left a comment that said new business will not open up. One, they can apply for the SUP and two, I said Deep Ellum needs more than the current offering. This school is one, and yes, there will be new foot traffic, just as there is from Booker T., Pegasus I & 2 in downtown and every other school in Dallas. As for parking, Deep Ellum is 1) an urban area and should need less parking, but Dallas's suburban code sees no difference between Deep Ellum and LBJ and 2) the neighborhood is fighting them on the parking issue.

40ozerandahamsammich
40ozerandahamsammich

Nah, this dude is a "Parkie" who moved to NYC, came back, and now likes to tell everybody else what it takes to be a "real city". That's all. 

Rangers100
Rangers100

Oh, I see now.  You live in Lewisville.

Perfect.

Anon
Anon

"real cities" still have zoning rules and you are kidding yourself of you think people in New York love living near bars and clubs. There are neighborhood fights constantly against this or that business. A lot of the fights are rooted in the changing demographics and the friction it brings but you ate living in fantasy-land if you think New York is full of people who love living near a bunch of drunks and their loud music.

Rangers100
Rangers100

And if you are going to whine, at least LIVE there.

Half these people screaming the most are not only rehashing their glory days, they are mailing them in from Collin County.  

If the actual residents of Deep Ellum and the nearby areas vote this out, fine. But if the opposition is mainly a bunch of fading Gen Xers bunkered away in the burbs, yawn.

RumblinRose
RumblinRose

Old school Deep Ellum is not the point here! Its the stupid decision to open a charter school right smack in the middle of Deep Ellum with thriving bars and venues across the street, next door, all over....it is an entertainment/art area! There are a ton of places they could have chosen. As it was said, this school is an expansion of their school in the West End which btw has gone to ZZzzzzzz and has a more "family" touristy thing going on. It works there. When they opened that school, there was not a thriving adult oriented night life. Deep Ellum is already established and is going strong. Anyway, I'm emotionally fired up and going on a rant... how is this school possibly going to benefit Deep Ellum? Who in the hell is going to send their kids there? Why is the city of Dallas allowing this? What about new business coming into Deep Ellum that will have to fight for SUPs? I truly believe there are more to this story than we are getting. There is a plan in mind and it is NOT in the best interest for Deep Ellum or the mom and pop establishments.

Travis Rex
Travis Rex

You can apply for a new SUP if the business will be within 300ft of the school, but it will be denied, based on the rule.  THAT is a business killer.  And what makes you think those kids are going to spend their money every day in Deep Ellum?  There is little evidence to support claims that the teachers and students will contribute to the Deep Ellum economy, besides invading 7-11 or the pizza joints, and that is a BIG maybe, assuming they can even leave campus for lunch.  As well, I hear conflicting reports.  Will they be "struggling students" or just ones that couldn't make it into TAG? There are valid concerns about student behavior which shouldn't be brushed aside.  In any case,if the city doesn't lift the 300 ft rule in Deep Ellum and lets the school open anyway, there won't be anything but resentment and animosity pointed in their direction. 

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin

he doesnt seem to know much about Dallas either

Anon
Anon

He doesn't seem to know much about New York. I don't think he actually has ever lived there.

Downtown Resident
Downtown Resident

It's their uptight bible brigade parents people are worried about. DEAR GOD WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDRED!

Ricardo
Ricardo

I'd like to know where this vote is as well. I live in Deep Ellum, and there has been no mention of some sort of vote. If there was one, it should have been put to a vote BEFORE they bought the building.

RTGolden
RTGolden

Bubble-boy, if the folks from the burbs didn't come to Deep Ellum and spend their money, this whole argument would be moot.  There wouldn't be a Deep Ellum.

RumblinRose
RumblinRose

Its not just about living there...its about the people that care about the neighborhood and what this school will to do is KILL what is going on there. It is the location on Elm that is the issue and what is possibly going to happen to the surrounding business and any future business. Dude, I live downtown Main. I used to work at Elm St Bar. I fought for their SUP 5 years ago. I've been there for the rise the fall and the rise again. I will always fight for this neighborhood and its people. I am its people!

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