The Dallas Way to Honor John F. Kennedy in November 2013: Silence Pesky Free Speech

Categories: Get Off My Lawn

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Dear John F. Kennedy Library Foundation:

Good move on blowing off the Sixth Floor Museum and executive director Nicola Longford regarding her plans for a 50th anniversary commemoration of the Kennedy assassination in Dealey Plaza. Believe me: You don't want to touch this gang with a 10-foot pole.

According to a story in this morning's Dallas Morning News, Longford and her assassination museum "are planning to take over commemoration activities" at Dealey Plaza in 2013. Their avowed aim, The News says, is to "avoid the carnival atmosphere that has often prevailed at previous anniversaries on the plaza."

Yeah. Let me tell you about that. There will be a hearing in federal court this Friday on another attempt to avoid a carnival atmosphere in Dealey Plaza -- that attempt being the city's decades-long goon-style campaign of intimidation against best-selling author Robert Groden. Groden has been hauled into court 81 times by his own count, including at least one tough session in jail, for the offense of selling books and tapes and speaking his mind about the assassination in Dealey Plaza.

More than 80 times the city has attempted to shut down Groden's exercise of free speech in Dealey Plaza. They have been tossed out of court by their own municipal judges every single time. Groden finally decided to sue in order in preserve the right of free speech and assembly for himself and all people in this very important place, a national landmark.

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In The News story today, Longford is quoted as saying, "We have reserved Dealey Plaza for that date [November 22, 2013]. I think, for the 50th anniversary, we have an opportunity to offer a dignified, appropriate event for the city of Dallas."

So, John F. Kennedy Library Foundation: I ask you to think about this. What does that mean, "take over?" How do you "take over" a national landmark with the avowed aim of controlling speech there?

I spoke this morning with Groden's lawyer Bradley Kizzia, who said he had never heard of anyone taking over Dealey Plaza in order to prevent other people from coming there and doing whatever they want to do within the law.

"It's a federal national historic landmark," he said. "I doubt that that entity [the museum] can legally do that. They sure shouldn't be able to do that, to preclude the access of other citizens seeking to exercise their First Amendment right. That sounds very troubling to me."

I talked to Groden as well. He scoffed at the idea that the museum had even contacted you about participating. I'm sure you know who Mr. Groden is -- proprietor at one point of the world's most authoritative film and photographic library on the assassination. He told me he has contacted members of the Kennedy family in the past on various issues and that they have shown no interest in Dealey Plaza or what goes on there.

It sounds from the story in The News, that you, John F. Kennedy Library Foundation, feel the same way. Longford is quoted as saying: "I don't think the Kennedy family has changed their stand."

No kidding. Why did she even ask? I have a call in to her about it, of course, but based on past behavior I would guess she will not return my call. So I am left to wonder what is it that she does not get about this situation?

Groden gets it. He understands that Dealey Plaza is not and will never be a memorial to the life of JFK, no matter what ludicrous efforts the Sixth Floor Museum may expend to create such an absurdly euphemistic, historically irresponsible impression.

It's where he was killed. That's what's important about Dealey Plaza. It was the scene of brutal catastrophe. What, we might ask, can be dignified about an assassination? JFK's murder here, even after half a century, is still an ongoing source of anger, confusion and anxiety in our nation. The only way for Dallas to even approach expiating its own role would be to stop trying to stifle debate in the place where it happened.

Let's talk about this whole thing of planning two years ahead to take over Dealey Plaza to make sure everything will be "dignified." I think you should put it in a certain context. On June 13, 2010, Dallas Police arrested and jailed Groden. Groden alleges that the arrest came about at the request of Sixth Floor Museum security personnel. That's a fact at issue in the ongoing lawsuit. The museum has refused to comment when I have tried to ask them about it in the past.

But I ask you this, John F. Kennedy Library Foundation: Have you ever even been accused of getting authors thrown in jail? What is dignified, pray tell, about slapping the cuffs on a late-middle-aged scholar, tossing him the back seat of a cop car and hauling him off to the slammer? And by the way, when is the last time you tried to take over a prominent public space in order to control speech here?

A quarter century ago I interviewed the late Stanley Marcus about the assassination, and he told me he thought Dallas bore significant blame. He said the city's fault was for refusing to recognize the festering climate of extremism in its own backyard before the assassination. If anything, Longford's impulse to clamp down on freedom of expression on the anniversary is of a cloth with the same phenomenon Marcus described a half-century before. If someone were going to write a senior thesis about it at Harvard, he or she might even call it "Why Dallas Slept."

If I were you, I wouldn't come to Dealey Plaza until Dallas wakes up.

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52 comments
Dallen3424
Dallen3424

Dr. McClellan was one of the main doctors at Parkland who was the first to see the actual exit wound in The back ofPresident Kennedy's head. Barr McClellan was one of the attorney's in the office that was LBJ's personal legal firm in Austin. I had the opportunity to hear Dr. McClellan speak a week ago. Very interesting! He described the entry wound in Kennedy's neck and the exit wound in the back. He everything that was going on at Par

Bobby Dobbs
Bobby Dobbs

When I was 16, I journeyed to Dealey Plaza as a runaway and began selling a tabloid style newspaper called "The JFK Today" for a mysterious figure named "Bob Goodman" to tourists. Over the next four years I saved and slowly took over all commerce in Dealey Plaza by publishing a professionally printed magazine called "The Kennedy Chronicle" in 1994. In 1995, Robert moved to Dallas and began selling my magazine as one of my vendors along with selling his own video.

I sold the rights to my magazine in July of 1996 and Robert subsequently had a major dispute with the new owner and began his own magazine which quickly became the top one there. I can tell you that even though he worked for me, I viewed the man as an idol and he is absolutely one of the most well respected figures in the JFK case.

Even in the 90s I viewed our ability to continue to sell magazines and newspapers in that area to be on borrowed time which is one of the reasons I decided to sell out. There was a considerable effort by the police and the sixth floor to get us out of there. So, I am amazed when when I go visit 15 years later, some of my old employees still haunt that ground and Robert is still giving them hell. I can assure you its not a great living standing on the grassy knoll in the middle of winter. But, that is his life, his livelyhood and I cannot understand why they are harrassing him. We had a little song we liked to sing and joke about:

You work all day and whadya get?Another days older and deeper in Sh*t!Bob Goodman don't you call me 'cause I cant go..I owe my soul to the grassy knoll!

There are some unsavory "hustler" types out there hawking and creatively panhandling. When I was there we had a code among us that no drinking was allowed, if a tourist said no, we did not ask again, and generally we ran off the ones causing problems.

My first Nov 22nd was in 1992. The 30th was one of the most memorable days of my life. In my time in Dealey I met 17 eye witnesses, and did some things that ranged from the sublime to the unbelieavable. I once stood in the basement of the Dallas Police Station where Oswald was shot, holding the pistol Jack Ruby used while "recreating" the famous photo of Oswald being murdered. I was Ruby, the man who owned the gun was Oswald!

There arent many left who were in Dealey Plaza that day, my opinions on what happened that date have softened over the years, but I will always be fascinated by the case and the men who work the grassy knoll.  

Cathy Witters-Stewart
Cathy Witters-Stewart

Note to John Judge, the 6th floor stated to us that they would not allow ANY organization to use any electricity from their facility, nor show favoritism to any organization. In years past Lancer was allowed to set up and put on a tasteful program honoring the life of JFK and recognizing the moment of his loss. The electrical box we used for our modest amplification has been removed. The parking attendant was going to allow us to hook into the booth, until a security guard from the 6th floor museum came down and disallowed it. Sherry and Debra went to talk to those in charge. They got the standard answer, if we let you we have to let everyone. Not so. We would have gladly paid a reasonably fee for a hook up for a half hour. You guys are truth seekers also at COPA, and though I don't know much about the history of all the different factions of the research communities, maybe it is time for a sit down between all of you, put aside your differences politically, and otherwise, and figure out how to stop the 6th floor from doing what they are doing. Work together, because the powers that be at the DCHF and 6th floor are COUNTING ON the disagreements between the research communities to make it easy on them to take over. There is money involved, 750,000 dollars to be exact in matching funds for a renovation of Dealey Plaza. Follow the paper trail, green and white....see how far the rabbit hole goes....

Cathy Witters-Stewart
Cathy Witters-Stewart

Thank you for your reporting on this. http://www.dallasnews.com/opin... In this article, my picture appears, we were performing a tribute to JFK entitled "The Torch Is Passed". This song can be heard along with accompanying video at www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3E6CU.... If there is any irreverance in it, I challenge anyone to find it. "The Vincent" wasn't a part of our ceremony, he was just in the shot. I got to speak with him this year, actually a nice guy. I just want to say that I appreciate your commentary and your belief in free speech. Again, thank you. I've shared your articles with several members of the JFK research community.

Someuser
Someuser

LBJ Killed JFKAfter 48 years the sad truth is revealed...http://www.viewzone2.com/lbj/indexx.h... 22, 1963 - the day AMERICA died.PLEASE ! share this email with EVERYONE you know !!!!  Theydeserve to know the TRUTH, about who killed JFK, before theydie (like so many who have already died, never knowing theTRUTH !)It was LBJ and the CIA that killed JFK - and the Warren Commission was aCOMPLETE WHITEWASH/COVERUP, which included a key CIA man, whohated Kennedy, and who Kennedy had fired from his post at the CIA.  (Recall,that JFK was sleeping with the Wife of Cord Meyer - LBJ's buddy, at the CIA).The Truth Behind the JFK Assassinationhttp://nstarzone.... The Case Against LBJ (Part 1)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... Case Against LBJ (Part 2)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... Case Against LBJ (Part 3)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... LBJ-CIA Assassination of JFKhttp://www.federaljack.com/.... Howard Hunt Outs Lyndon Johnson in JFK Assassination - Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?... Gaylon Ross Sr. Interview with Madeleine Duncan Brown - Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?... Read 1) BLOOD, MONEY & POWER, by Barr McClellan, 2) Mary’s Mosaic: Mary Pinchot Meyer & John F. Kennedy and Their Vision for World Peace, and 3) JFK: The CIA, Vietnam, and the Plot to Assassinate John F. Kennedy, by L. Fletcher Prouty.  Did you know, that LBJ would have gone to PRISON, for the murders of 8 people in Texas (including LBJ’s own SISTER!), at the hand of Mac Wallace, LBJ’s hired hit-man, had LBJ NOT become President? LBJ wanted DESPERATELY to become President. (Just like Tricky Dick Nixon, who was at Clint Murchison’s house, the night before the Assassination, along with many, many other colorful characters, such as J. Edgar Hoover, and Jack Ruby). TPTB (The Powers That Be) knew that JFK and RFK were trying to get LBJ OFF the ’64 ticket! In order for TPTB to reverse all of JFK’s actions as President (such as Executive Order 11110) – LBJ would HAVE TO BECOME PRESIDENT. The choice was clear – the deed would be done in Dallas, but only after they ruled out Chicago, and Tampa). LBJ suggested the Dallas venue. JFK agreed. Jack Ruby owed a favor to Carlos Marcello. That’s why he was the one who took out the patsy: Oswald. FIVE important books on the subject:1) Blood, Money & Power, by Barr McClellan2) Mary's Mosaic: Mary Pinchot Meyer & John F. Kennedy and their Vision for World Peace, by Peter Janney3) JFK: The CIA, Vietnam, and the Plot to Assassinate John F. Kennedy, L. Fletcher Prouty4) Coup d'Etat in America: The CIA and the Assassination of John F. Kennedy, by Alan J. Weberman and Michael Canfield5) Plausible Denial: Was the CIA Involved in the Assassination of JFK? by Mark Lane

John Judge
John Judge

In 1964, researcher and newspaper editor Penn Jones, Jr. of Midlothian, TX began a tradition of holding a Moment of Silence on the Grassy Knoll at 12:30 pm every November 22. An early and lifelong critic of the Dallas police activities and investigation and the Warren Commission surrounding the Kennedy assassination, Penn wrote and spoke out about the lies, coverups and witness deaths in the case. I joined him and a handful of others on the Grassy Knoll each year, starting in the late 60s, and when he became to ill to participate after the 30th anniversary, he asked me to continue the ceremony on behalf of those seeking the truth about who killed JFK.

I have held a Moment of Silence every year since then, and as an activity of the Coalition on Political Assassinations since 1994, with a permit from Dallas Parks and Recreation. The event became part of our annual conferences on the assassinations every year in Dallas, which still continue. There is no way to be completely silent in the face of the unsolved murders of a president, his brother, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Malcolm X and others, but we solemnify the moment and then speak truth to power at the assassination site annually.

I have been asking for a permit for the 50th anniversary for the last three years to no avail, only to be informed that one will not be available to us in 2013. Our permits were always non-exclusive and other individuals and groups without one have often drowned us out with amplified sound or distracted people with some form of performance art as the crowds grew following the release of Oliver Stone's film JFK twenty years ago.

Some 5,000 people came out for the 40th anniversary and there will likely be more on the 50th. To try to limit the message to all of them that day and deny the critics free speech is absurd and doubtless unconstitutional. I was told by Dallas police that the disruptive actions of others during our permitted event was "free speech". Where is ours in 2013? To disallow us there have been repeated claims in the Dallas press that we are disrespectful of the Kennedy family and legacy to even question the official history or suggest a conspiracy in his murder. We were even called a "morbid, necrophilic circus" one year by a reporter for the Dallas Morning News. If we are a circus, then the Dallas press are the clowns, for failing to do their investigative duty over the years in the crime of the last century. But speaking out in our own voices and making the world remember Kennedy's life and his death and its historical meaning is not a carnival, it is a democratic tradition that needs to be protected not stifled.

Ironically, a Sixth Floor Museum representative was quoted saying they did not know what they would do on the anniversary to be respectful, "maybe a moment of silence." What a novel idea! Despite such public relations operations on behalf of Dallas and the Sixth Floor Museum to blame Lee Harvey Oswald as a lone nut and exonerate the city of blame, the truth will out.

John Judge, director, Coalition on Political Assassinations, www.politicalassassinations.co...

Nominay
Nominay

It's painfully clear from any half-ass researcher that Sheriff at the time, Bill Decker was complicit in the assassination. He emphatically instructed his officers that day to not take part in motorcade security whatsoever, to just stand and observe. He also drastically cut back the amount of police along the route and particularly in Dealey Plaza.

Robert Morrow
Robert Morrow

I highly recommend the book LBJ: Mastermind of JFK's Assassination by Phillip Nelson. The highly acclaimed second edition is out this month. It would make a great read and a great Christmas gift.

http://www.amazon.com/LBJ-Mast...

James Fetzer:

From first chapter to last, this is a beautifully written, intellectually captivating, and ultimately persuasive account of the role of LBJ in the assassination of JFK. I had more than 100 conversations with Madeleine Duncan Brown, one of his many mistresses but the only one who bore him a son. She, too, became convinced that Lyndon was profoundly involved in the death of his predecessor. On New Year's Eve, six weeks after the assassination, they had a rendezvous at the Driskill Hotel in Austin, where she confronted him with rumors, rampant in Dallas at the time, that he had been involved, since no one stood more to gain. He blew up at her and told her that the CIA and the oil boys had decided that JFK had to be taken out. She wrote about it in her book, TEXAS IN THE MORNING. Her account has been reinforced by Billy Sol Estes, the Texas wheeler-dealer who made mountains of money for Lyndon, Connally, and their buddies, who explains in his book, A TEXAS LEGEND, how he became convinced that Cliff Carter, LBJ's chief administrative assistant, and Malcolm "Mac" Wallace, his personal assassin (by whom Lyndon had a dozen or more persons terminated, including one of his sisters), had been personally involved. E. Howard Hunt, in his "Last Confessions" in ROLLING STONE, explained to his son, St. John, that LBJ, Cord Meyer, William Harvey, David Sanchez Morales, and others in the CIA had been involved in the assassination. For an overview, enter "John F. Kennedy: History, Memory, Legacy", and download Chapter 30. Or visit [...], "Reclaiming History: A Closed Mind Perpetrating a Fraud on the Public", and you will understand the context within which it took place. For a short course, try "Reasoning about Assassinantions" via google. I also recommend James Douglass, JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE. Both make profound contributions to the case.

Robert Morrow
Robert Morrow

There seem to be a lot of aggressive and incredibly ignorant "lone nutter" posters on this thread. You folks have a lot to learn. Here are some good books to read on the 1963 Coup d'Etat:

1 LBJ: The Mastermind of JFK's Assassination Phillip F. Nelson 2 JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters James Douglass 3 Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy Years David Talbot 4 Family of Secrets: The Bush Dynasty, the Powerful Forces That Put It in the White House, and What Their Influence Means for America Russ Baker 5 The Dark Side of Camelot Seymour Hersh 6 The Tatum Chronicles (Google "Chip Tatum Pegasus" for free on internet! Extremely important!) D. G. "Chip Tatum" 7 The Final Chapter on the Assassination of John F. Kennedy Craig Zirbel 8 The Texas Connection Craig Zirbel 9 The Men Who Killed Kennedy - the Guilty Men DVD, episodes 7,8,9 on YouTube Nigel Turner 10 Blood, Money & Power: How L.B.J Killed J.F.K. Barr McClellan 11 The Dark Side of Lyndon Baines Johnson Joachim Joesten 12 The Immaculate Deception: The Bush Crime Family Exposed Russell S. Bowen 13 Texas in the Morning: The Love Story of Madeleine Brown and President Lyndon Baines Johnson Madeleine Brown 14 JFK - Director's Cut - 2 Disc Special Edition (1991) Oliver Stone 15 Defrauding America: Encyclopedia of Secret Operations by the CIA, DEA and Other Covert Agencies Rodney Stich 16 Bloody Treason: On Solving History's Greatest Murder Mystery: The Assassination of John F. Kennedy Noel H. Twyman 17 ILLUSION AND DENIAL in the John F. Kennedy Assassination Noel H. Twyman 18 Conspiracy: Who Killed President Kennedy? Anthony Summers 19 The Last Investigation Gaeton Fonzi 20 Me & Lee: How I Came to Know, Love and Lose Lee Harvey Oswald Judyth Vary Baker & Edward Haslam 21 Oswald and the CIA John Newman 22 Spy Saga: Lee Harvey Oswald and U.S. Intelligence Philip H. Melanson 23 Who Shot JFK? Robin Ramsay 24 Barry & 'the Boys': The CIA, the Mob and America's Secret History Daniel Hopsicker 25 Billie Sol Estes a Texas Legend Billie Sol Estes 26 Jesse Ventura, Conspiracy Theory Jesse Ventura and Dick Russell 27 History Will Not Absolve Us: Orwellian Control, Public Denial, & the Murder of President Kennedy Martin Schotz 28 Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy, by His Lover Judyth Vary Baker 29 The Conspirators: Secrets of an Iran-Contra Insider Al Martin 30 Plausible Denial: Was the CIA Involved in the Assassination of JFK Mark Lane 31 To Kill a President: Finally an Ex-FBI Agent rips aside the Veil of Secrecy that killed JFK  Wesley  Smearingen 32 JFK: The CIA, Vietnam and the Plot to Assassinate John F. Kennedy Fletcher Prouty 33 The Secret Team: The CIA and its Allies in Control of the United States and the World Fletcher Prouty 34 Trauma Room One: The JFK Medical Coverup Exposed Charles Crenshaw 35 Regicide: The Official Assassination of John F. Kennedy Gregory Douglas 36 The Shadows of Power: The Council on Foreign Relations and the American Decline James Perloff 37 A Texan Looks at Lyndon: A Study in Illegitimate Power J. Evetts Haley 38 The Men on the Sixth Floor Glen Sample & Mark Collum 39 Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy Jim Marrs 40 Breach of Trust: How the Warren Commission Failed the Nation and Why Gerald D. McKnight 41 Power Beyond Reason: The Mental Collapse of Lyndon Johnson D. Jablow Hershman 42 Inside the Assassination Records Review Board: The U.S. Government's Final Attempt to Reconcile the Conflicting Medical Evidence in the Assassination of JFK, Volumes 1-5 Douglas P. Horne 43 Someone Would Have Talked Larry Hancock 44 On the Trail of the Assassins Jim Garrison 45 Battling Wall Street: The Kennedy Presidency Donald Gibson 46 Evidence of Revision: The Assassination of America Anonymous DVD 47 War is a Racket: the Antiwar Classic by America's Most Decorated Soldier Smedley D. Butler 48 Dog Days at the White House: The Outrageous Memoirs of the Presidential Kennel Keeper Traphes Bryant 49 The Warren Omission: A Micro Study of the Methods and Failures of the Warren Commission Walt Brown 50 Bobby and Jackie: A Love Story C. David Heymann 51 Edward Lansdale's Cold War Jonathan Nashel 52 Not in Your Lifetime Anthony Summers 53 JFK: The Cuba Files: The Untold Story of the Plot to Kill Kennedy (Secret War) Fabian Escalante 54 Executive Action: 634 Ways to Kill Fidel Castro (Secret War) Fabian Escalante 55 Who Killed Kennedy? Thomas Buchanan 56 How Kennedy was Killed: The Full Appalling Story Joachim Joesten 57 Oswald: Assassin or Fall Guy? Joachim Joesten 58 Marina Oswald Joachim Joesten 59 Oswald: The Truth Joachim Joesten 60 The Garrison Enquiry: Truth & Consequences Joachim Joesten 61 The Radical Right and the Murder of John F. Kennedy: Stunning Evidence in the Assassination of the President Harrison Livingstone 62 High Treason: The Assassination of JFK & the Case for Conspiracy Harrison Livingstone & Robert Groden

Robert Morrow
Robert Morrow

Robert Groden is one of the modern American heroes, scholar and truth teller in the JFK assassination.

"The LBJ-CIA Assassination of JFK" Google the full essay

            Fifty years after the assassination of John Kennedy,research is pointing the finger at Lyndon Johnson and the CIA as havingengineered a coup d'etat. It is likely that Lyndon Johnson made a dirty deal withCIA Republicans to murder John Kennedy in the 1963 Coup d’Etat. (People likeClint Murchison Sr., H.L. Hunt, D.H. Byrd, Nelson Rockefeller, DavidRockefeller, top Nelson Rockefeller aide Henry Kissinger, McGeorge Bundy,George Herbert Walker Bush, Gen. Edward Lansdale (CIA) and Gen. CharlesWilloughby all are excellent candidates for elite sponsorship.) Lyndon Johnson andAllen Dulles may very well have been co-CEOs of the JFK assassination;with the CIA in charge of the killing of JFK, and Lyndon Johnson and (his closefriend and neighbor of 19 years in Washington, DC) FBI director J. Edgar Hooverin charge of the cover up.

            Texas oil men and key LBJ supporters Clint Murchison, Sr. ands H.L. Hunt are thoughtto be key players in the JFK assassination because of their close ties to theinner core of US intelligence (Allen Dulles, Nelson Rockefeller, John J.McCloy), close ties to Lyndon Johnson and J. Edgar Hoover of the FBI, bankersRockefellers; Murchison was even friends with key Kennedy-hater mafia godfatherCarlos Marcellos of New Orleans. Not only that, Murchison, Sr. was a patientand partner of Dr. Alton Oschner, the former president of the American CancerSociety and who ran covert cancer research for the CIA. Oschner, likewise was aKennedy-hater. John Simkin: “One of Ochsner's friends described him as being‘like a fundamentalist preacher in the sense that the fight against communismwas the only subject that he would talk about, or even allow you to talk about,in his presence.”

Robert Morrow
Robert Morrow

Google the essay "LBJ-CIA Assassination of JFK"

Jay
Jay

Where to start? When and why did JimS and the DO formally adopt this street urchin? I'm actually considering writing a book about the persecution and prosecution of assassinationologist Robert Groden, if I can only find a good open spot on Dealey Plaza to hawk it to tourists.

"Best selling author Robert Groden." Really? What best selling book had Mr. Groden ever published. Anyone? Anyone?

"Mr. Groden -- proprietor at one point of the world's most authoritative film and photographic library on the assassination." Really? And he keeps it all in the trunk of his car no doubt. Where exactly is this fascinating collection. Has anyone actually seen this collection? I'm just speculating, but I would bet that the 6th Floor Museum, FBI, CIA and the Warren Commission Archives have more authoritative collections.

He said that a Kennedy family "member" he has contacted won't discuss Dealey Plaza with him? My guess is they won't even speak with him. Could that be because in Gerald Posner's book "Case Closed" Groden was featured and declared "guilty of misleading the American public."  Groden's subsequent lawsuit in the District Court was dismissed by summary judgment. And the Kennedy family doesn't want to chat with him. Who would want a dialogue with a street vendor retailing gossip rags basically fictionalizing your family member's assassination? Go figure.

And according to Stanley Marcus, a Democrat, Dallas was responsible for the assassination for not recognizing a festering climate of extremism? Was Mr. Marcus advocating prohibiting free speech or assembly to quell extremism? Wasn't the president actually assassinated not by a right wing hate mongers but instead by a Marxists defector (who also murdered Dallas officer Tippit) over Kennedy's Bay of Pigs fiasco?

Look, Robert Groden is nothing more than a street peddler selling National Inquirer quality tripe to tourists and bored people on jury-duty wandering around Dealey Plaza. He seems to have a reqular place of business on public property, so as long as he's paying sales taxes on his sales (and bets there?), I say rent the man a booth and let him sell whatever fairy tales the public will consume.

But seriously, there are more compelling free speech issues out there worthy of a good Supreme Court fight. Let's just let this one play out where it belongs, Dallas Municipal Court.

Joe L
Joe L

what I don't understand is:

"A quarter century ago I interviewed the late Stanley Marcus about the assassination, and he told me he thought Dallas bore significant blame. He said the city's fault was for refusing to recognize the festering climate of extremism in its own backyard before the assassination. "

The festering climate of extremism was extremism of the right.  But Kennedy was killed by an extremist of the left.  How can right-wing extremism be responsible for an assassination by a leftist?

RTGolden
RTGolden

Why do Americans always have to look for a way to blame the establishement for the atrocities?  We blame Bush, the CIA, Defense Intelligence and the Port Authority for 9/11, instead of blaming the fundamentalist whack-jobs who commandeered 4 planes and used them to attack our country.  Now this Marcus person seeks to blame the city of Dallas for the acts of THE prototypical social retard lone assassin?  What is this obsession with blaming our government for acts perpetrated against the same?To the 9/11 conspirists, the grassy knoll leprechaun-seekers, and the Area 51 ET-philes, it's ok.  The government isn't putting tracking devices in your dollar bills or flouridating your water in pursuit of mind-control.  The government is guilty of doing all sorts of dastardly stuff to and in the name of, the citizenry.  Go research the concrete evils the government commits instead of flailing your arms over what amount to, basically, side issues.

Max from the Sandspit
Max from the Sandspit

You mean to tell me that JFK was not bumped off by the mob, in cahoots with LBJ, Jimmy Hoffa and Fido Castro. Please don't tell Bubbles, by the way, how is Bubbles these days.

randy from sachse
randy from sachse

I would prefer Dealy Plaza have a circus atmosphere complete with left/right wing nuts, taco carts, and eardrum-grating bullhorns.  Dallas needs more freak shows. JFK has a slab at Arlington National with a cool flame that never goes out unless the wind blows really hard.  That's enough.

Mike
Mike

Designating Dealey Plaza a national landmark was a dumb idea.  Now we are stuck with it and its associated losers like Mr. Groden.  Just because he has free speech does not mean he is not a loser.  We should have completed changed the Plaza so it was no longer recognizable, torn down that ugly county building, reshaped Elm Street so those twits do not have a place to put their "X", and gotten rid of that ridiculous picket fence. 

The only thing I agree with is the last recommendation.  Let's all avoid Dealey Plaza from this point.  No more tour buses, no more gawkers, no more self-professed expert guides.  If you want to honor JFK, go see his tomb (and brothers') in Arlington, visit his library in Boston, or heaven forbid, read his books instead the tripe offered by the Grodens now in the Plaza.

John_McKee
John_McKee

I guess I don't understand the free speech issue. I absolutely believe he should be allowed free speech in Dealey Plaza, he should be able to pass out whatever literature that he wishes and give out however many tapes he wants, that is his right to free speech.

I take issue with him operating a business on public property, in my opinion he has no more right to sell books or tapes about Kennedy on public property than I do to set up a food cart and a mobile RedBox and sell bottled water.

Dallen3424
Dallen3424

Dr. McClellan was one of the main doctors at Parkland who was the first to see the actual exit wound in The back ofPresident Kennedy's head. Barr McClellan was one of the attorney's in the office that was LBJ's personal legal firm in Austin. I had the opportunity to hear Dr. McClellan speak a week ago. Very interesting! He described the entry wound in Kennedy's neck and the exit wound in the back. He everything that was going on at Par

Dallen3424
Dallen3424

Idol Bobby?? Really?? OMG! Sorry I guess IDK. I guess I got over that after the first few months of living with him. how are you doing anyway. Good to know you still around somewhere. How did Bob die?

DavidMyers
DavidMyers

Excellent list Robert.  There's some on it that I will be very interested in looking at in the future.  I was particularly impressed with the five volume set by Douglas P. Horne - "Inside the Assassination Records Review Board".  I would also add to this list, "Deep Politics and the Death of JFK" by Peter Dale Scott, even though it was published in 1993.  It looks at the assassination within the framework of all "underground, behind the scenes" secret alliances involved in "Deep Politics" in US history - one connection he makes clear is the connections between the powers-that-be and the international drug trade.  It is certainly a political science theoretical approach, but given its earlier publication date it does a good job of connecting the dots and showing the behind the scenes connections.

Bobby Dobbs
Bobby Dobbs

JAY WROTE: "Best selling author Robert Groden." Really? What best selling book had Mr. Groden ever published. Anyone? Anyone? "

Jay: Groden's Book "High Treason" Was on the NY Times best seller list in 1990-1991 for 11 weeks peaking at #2.

Here is proof : http://www.nytimes.com/1990/12...

Robert Morrow
Robert Morrow

Robert Groden is highly respected in the JFK assassination research community. He has every right to sell his materials on Dealey Plaza. He is being persecuted.

Robert Morrow
Robert Morrow

Oswald was US intelligence and a fake pro-Castro Marxist. You folks have a LOT to learn.

Another key point: Lee Harvey Oswald was U.S. intelligence and he shot NOONE on 11/2263. Re: Oswald's intelligence connections read 1) "Oswald andthe CIA" by John Newman 2) "Spy Saga: Lee Harvey Oswald and USIntelligence" by Philip Melanson 3) "History Will Not AbsolveUs" by Martin Schotz (Chapter V Oswald and U.S. Intelligence byChristopher Sharrett) 4) "Me and Lee" by Judyth Vary Baker (Oswald'smistress in New Orleans, summer 1963) 5) Google “Lee Harvey Oswald’s readinghabits summer 1963”

DavidMyers
DavidMyers

Because that is exactly what the CIA and the right-wing "big-oil" extremists (such as H. L Hunt and Clint Murchison) wanted you to think.  The CIA went to considerable effort to establish their operative (Oswald)'s left-wing, pro- Castro bonefieds so that you would think he was a leftist while at the same time he was working for and following the orders of the CIA and reporting to the right-wing run FBI, which is how they were able to set him up to be the patsy (the original plan was to blame it all on Castro as a justification for invading Cuba - something Kennedy had promised Khruschev he would not do - and it helped get him killed by his right-wing military establishment who considered him a traitor to the Cold War).  Try doing some reading of your own, particularly on LBJ and J. Edgar Hoover's histories.  A good over-all starting point is the excellent and extensively documented book, "JFK and the Unspeakable - Why He Died and Why It Matters" by James W. Douglass (pub 2008).  For an intimate view of LBJ written by his auttorney, Barr McClellan, try "Blood Money & Power - How LBJ Killed J.F.K" (pub 2003) or a newer book based on McClellan's - "LBJ - The Mastermind of JFK's Assassination" by Phillip F. Nelson (pub 2010).  All of these books are available in paperback on amazon.com.

Jay
Jay

Damn it Joe L, stick with the narrative. If you start interjecting, you know, actual facts, the whole screed falls apart.

Lee
Lee

Having been in Dallas at the time, I know how bad it was. You are right that the far right was the issue. Spitting on and hitting senior government officials with signs was considered okm even worth bragging about. The hateful ads in the DMN exceed even the ones we see today. When the assasination occurred ALL assumed that it was someone from the far right and were somewhat relieved when it turned out not to be the case. However the vitriol and hatred that was accepted in Dallas created an atmosphere of extremism that made anyone of an persuasion think he could act.

DavidMyers
DavidMyers

I also do not think that 9-11 was a conspiracy.  I do think that Bush and Cheney took full advantage of it to force their own mis-directed foreign policy goals, but I don't think they caused it.  Ever since the JFK assassination, people who want to cover up what really happened have been happily sewing disinformation including creating fake conspiracies in order to convince the public that all conspiracies are "crazy" - including the JFK assassination conspiracy.  The CIA's black ops base at Area 51 was only too happy to help spread the Rosewell Aliens conspiracy in order to divert attention from the true purposed of Area 51 and they've been helping spin outrageous conspiracies ever since as part of their anti-JFK conspiracy campaign.

Robert Morrow
Robert Morrow

The 9/11 truthers have a LOT in common with the establishment types who promote the fantasy there was no LBJ-CIA conspriracy to murder JFK.

[Robert Morrow – researcher into the1963 Coup d’Etat. I have 250+ books related to the JFK assassination. Google myessay “LBJ-CIA Assassination of JFK”]

 

If you want to get quickly “up tospeed” on the JFK assassination, here is what to read:

 

1) LBJ: Mastermind of JFK’s Assassination by Phillip Nelson

2) JFK and the Unspeakable:Why He Died and Why it Matters by JamesDouglass

3) Brothers: the Hidden History of the Kennedy Years by David Talbot

4) The Dark Side of Camelot by Seymour Hersh

5) Family of Secrets: The Bush Dynasty by Russ Baker.

6) Google the essay “LBJ-CIAAssassination of JFK” by Robert Morrow.

7) Google “National Security Stateand the Assassination of JFK by Andrew Gavin Marshall.”

8) Google “Chip Tatum Pegasus.”

9) Google “Vincent Salandria FalseMystery Speech.” Read everything Vincent Salandria ever wrote.

10) Google “Murray Rothbard the JFKFlap”

11) Google “Preserving the Legacy byMat Wilson”

11) Google “Bertrand Russell 16Questions on the Assassination”

12) Watch on You Tube the extremelyimportant videos The Men Who Killed Kennedy, episodes 7, 8, and 9 which focuson the role of Lyndon Johnson.

13) Watch on You Tube JesseVentura’s show on the JFK assassination.

14) Watch the movie JFK director’scut by Oliver Stone.

15) Watch on You Tube “Evidence ofRevision.” – 8 hours of fantastic and rare footage relating to the JFKassassination.

sqweasel
sqweasel

We blame the government because they do acts which deserve blame.  Please follow your own advice and do some research on pre-9/11 intelligence.  Mr. Marcus' view of the political and social tone of Dallas is also worthy of further research.  For you to dismiss it out of hand is foolish.

DavidMyers
DavidMyers

Yes, lets forget-about-it and put it all behind - who cares if our democracy was overthrown by a rightwing secret police coup d'etat.  Does it really matter?  For all we know they could still be in control and since we don't really know, does it really matter?  (Note, in case you didn't notice - this is sarcasm!)  The truth will out no matter how many continue to bury their head in the sand and lable those who pay attention as "loonies" and "whackos".Lyin' Lyndon Johnson - worst president ever! (multi-murder and co-conspirator along with his good buddy J. Edgar Hoover, who helped LBJ blackmail his way onto the Kennedy ticket in 1960 by providing him evidence of JFK's womanizing and health issues (Addisson's disease), allowing LBJ to blackmail his way into the Vice Presidency by threatening to expose JFK during the election campaign if he didn't put LBJ on the ticket.Then, when things got really bad for LBJ (he was about to be indicted on charges of corruption and graft in connection with the Billy Sol Estes, Bobby Backer, and TFX military procurement scandals) and when all of LBJ's allies who were also Kennedy's enemies felt their vested interests being threatened (oil depletion allowences for the Texas "big oil" multil-millionaires, Viet Nam war contracts for the military industrial complex, mafia enterprises under attack by Autorney General Robert F. Kennedy in his war on organized crime, J. Edgar's cherished FBI director for life status - JFK was going to force him to retire after being re-elected in 1964).  So, for all those parties involved, putting a Texan in the White House - thier pal Lyndon, made murder a very worthwhile enterprise.

Jim Schutze
Jim Schutze

But Mike, that makes us look like a city of assassins. That's not good, is it?

Jim Schutze
Jim Schutze

Books and tapes occupy a different place in the law -- specifically protected, especially under dallas ordinances in effect at the time of his arrest.

Bobby Dobbs
Bobby Dobbs

I am doing great. Who is this is? As far as I know both Bob Goodman and Bob Groden are still alive.

Jay
Jay

So DavidMyers, how many people, at a bare minimum, would it have been necessarily to involve in any field operation planned, executed and covered-up by either the CIA, FBI, LBJ, NSA or the Defense Department, as a covert operation to assassinate the president (and plausibly blame some other dumb schmuck like Oswalt)?

I ask, because I firmly believe that two people can only keep a secret if one of them is dead. Grand conspiracies like the JFK assassination live long lives because there are no credible witnesses, and absolutely no solid proof, behind any of these theories. These assassination books represent nothing more than a cottage industry selling fiction to a skeptical and gullible public.

Texasdave60
Texasdave60

Are Barr McClellan and Dr. McClellan (the guy that pronounced JFK as dead) related?

Carole
Carole

"left" was his cover hence the importance of the "lone" part cuz all his contacts were right wingers- see how that works Jay?

RTGolden
RTGolden

Please do your own research.  It wasn't Intelligence activities that led to the so-called Intelligence failures preceding 9/11.  It was legally impossible for the various intelligence agencies to share information without sending some of those operators, agents, and analysts to prison for violating either the Posse Comitatus Act or various Executive Orders.  There are walls separating what sorts of intelligence can be pursued, collected, analyzed, reported on and shared by the different intelligence agencies. Even with the governmental shortcomings, which are varied and not without merit, it still doesn't erase the fact that it was 19 radical fundamentalist terrorists who planned, organized and carried out the attack.  It was not the Bush administration, nor was it the Clinton administration's fault that 9/11 happened.

J. Erik Jonsson
J. Erik Jonsson

Except that Stanley Marcus was right for the wrong reason.  He was worried about the right-wing nut jobs.

Mike
Mike

How does that make us look like a city of assassins?  While Mr. Marcus was a great retailer, I don't buy him as an expert on group political psychology.  We do not have a clue what was going on in Lee Harvey's twisted little mind.  I'd guess it had more to do with his inadequacies as a human being than political extemism.  He did not know what he was except he knew he was a failure and everybody around him agreed.  Our taking steps to "remember" this event does nothing positive and gives a negative as an example that failures can achieve fame if they do an ugly enough act.  November 22 has no political importance.  It's the day that shows that persons inadequate in every measure of their personal and working lives can be a part of history.  The Catholic Church has All Saints and All Souls in early November.  We have All Losers' Day on the 22nd..

RTGolden
RTGolden

I think the concern is what he is doing with the books and tapes.  Is he passing them out, or is he using public property to sell them?  If he is passing them out, the city should butt out and leave him alone.  If he is selling them, he needs to follow the rules anyone else trying to make a profit has to follow.

Diane Allen
Diane Allen

Dr. McClellan was one of the main doctors at Parkland who was the first to see the actual exit wound in The back ofPresident Kennedy's head. Barr McClellan was one of the attorney's in the office that was LBJ's personal legal firm in Austin. I had the opportunity to hear Dr. McClellan speak a week ago. Very interesting! He described the entry wound in Kennedy's neck and the exit wound in the back. He everything that was going on at Par

DavidMyers
DavidMyers

Sorry Jay, I realize that I thought I was responding to Joe L.  My mistake, I didn't see any indication, mistaken or not, that you have an open mind on this subject, after all.

DavidMyers
DavidMyers

This is the typical excuse that people with their heads buried in the sand make for not bothering to read anything that might challenge their all-ready-made-up-minds.  If you're not even willing to read one well-documented book (such as "JFK and the Unspeakable - Why He Died and Why It Matters" by James W. Douglass), then clearly you have a closed mind on this subject and no amount of factual information will weaken your defensive pose.  I thought from the way you had stated your message that you were more open minded than that, which is why I took the trouble to give you some suggestions.  Clearly I wasted my time.

Robert Morrow
Robert Morrow

Jay, you can email me at Morrow321@aol.com and I will send you a 500 page word document on the LBJ-CIA assassination of JFK. You will learn a lot. Plenty of people have talked. Google Madeleine Duncan Brown, LBJ's mistress. Oswald was US intelligence.

Dallen3424
Dallen3424

Dr. McClellan was one of the main doctors at Parkland that stood at the back of Kennedy's head and first saw the massive "exit wound," the last rites, Mrs. Kennedy kiss her husband's foot as she left Trauma room one. He was very interesting. I was fortunate enough to hear him speak a week ago. Barr McClellan is an attorney in LBJ's personal legal firm in Austin who has written a great book about Johnson' involvement in the assassination and subsequent cover up.

DavidMyers
DavidMyers

I don't know, although I doubt it, because it would have then been mentioned in Barr McClelland's book, I would expect.  However, Barr McClelland is the father of George W. Bush's former press secretary, Scott McClelland.

Robert Morrow
Robert Morrow

Lyndon Johnson and a bunch of Republican CIA and Republican Texas oil men murdered JFK. Marcus was right on the money. Think HL Hunt, Clint Murchison, Sr. and CIA George Herbert Walker Bush.

Robert Morrow
Robert Morrow

Mike, Oswald was US intelligence. You are not very knowledgeable about the JFK assassination, aka 1963 Coup d'Etat.

DavidMyers
DavidMyers

Typical bully attitude.  I'll bet you were a holy terror as#hole in high school!

CJAZ
CJAZ

Wrong. You're total shit, but you do it very well.     

Jim Schutze
Jim Schutze

Shit. You're totally wrong, but you do it very well.

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