Last Night, In Occupied Pioneer Park ...

Categories: City Hall
OccupyDallasatNight1.jpg
Photos by Justin Terveen
Last night we got word that the city is invalidating Occupy Dallas's permit to stay in Pioneer Park till 5 p.m. Friday, since the group hadn't secured the million-dollar insurance policy City Hall demanded on Monday. The question was: Would the city kick Occupy Dallas out at 11 p.m., the park curfew, or let them remain so long as they stayed in their tents and kept quiet, which is what Schutze was told when he left last night? The latter, turns out -- so far, at least.

Before the overnight rain moved in, the great Justin Terveen stopped by the park near City Hall to see what was (or wasn't) happening. He was there twice: 'round midnight, then again at 4:30 a.m., when the downtown sky was illuminated with the flashes of lightning you see forming in the photo above. Early this morning he sent me the shots; on the other side, a few more looks at the tent city next door to the new Omni Hotel.

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66 comments
chad armstrong
chad armstrong

I hope OWS movement can survive over the Winter (it gets cold in NYC). If the movement hangs on it will be full speed ahead throughout Spring/Summer 2012

jfpo
jfpo

Wow, photography threads are now troll-erific.

pollbuster2
pollbuster2

Keep up the great work, #Occupy Dallas.

J. Erik Jonsson
J. Erik Jonsson

How many people are down there, RW?  From these fantastically pretty photos, this looks like it has inspired fewer protestors than flow control.

Jason
Jason

For all the people that are leaving sarcastic and mean-spirited comments, can you tell me exactly why you disagree with what these people are doing?  This is actually a question that's aside from what the organization believes in.  This is a question about protesting in general.

Some comments seem like they are drawn up on party lines.  While misguided, I guess I get that.  But, seriously, why do you disagree?

Some comments are just resentful.  I think I get those, although I just see them as the commenter being unhappy in general.  But, why do you disagree?

Some comments not in this discussion but posted in other discussions on the topic seem to be based on city rules and regulations.  e.g. "why do these people feel they should be able to sleep in a park."  or "If I have an organization then these people should be made to follow the same rules as I am."  Yes, you are right to a certain extent.  But I think, in the spirit of how our country was founded and the civil liberties given to us through the Bill of Rights, you would want to be able to allow protesting.  If you don't agree with this protest, that's fine; but what about a protest that you might believe in.  Wouldn't you want those views to be heard?

Some great changes throughout the years, starting with how our country was founded, have come out of protests.  I think it is the bedrock of the U.S.A.

All that said, I also can't see why people are against what this organization believes in.  I would think people from all political views could get behind them and take part in the direction they are going.  It would actually be nice to see some views that might not be one-sided.  I see a lot of polls and a lot of people talk about disagree with how congress is working.  I think a lot of that comes from such hard lines being drawn between the dems and repubs. 

Larry L Johnson Jr
Larry L Johnson Jr

Here’s my question about the Occupy Dallas group. If theyare made up of a group of people with no single agenda, what the resolutionthey are looking for? Is each of their respective issues going to have to beresolved individually? I’m sure I’m missing something critical in myunderstanding of what’s going on.

Chris Danger
Chris Danger

Justin sure loves playing with his filters in Adobe CS ;)

I'll say it this way w/ the occupy dallas crowd, they have been respectful and polite throughout the whole process. Even the broadcast w/ Deep Ellum On Air have been absolutely spot-on and professional (link below). I dont say this because im part of the team at DEOA(watch loose lips, monday night 9p east/6p west), I say it because the "mainstream" press has been flip at best and insultive at worst to these folks. I'll also say the DPD has been very respectful concerning issues of this nature and havent called out the "Dogs and Pepper Spray" that have been seen w/ the NY and Boston protests..

http://deepellumonair.com/occu...

Mike Dimone
Mike Dimone

Problem solved.  Weshould create a Federally mandated Liability Insurance Exchange forprotests.  Make sure that everyone canafford to have liability insurance so that they can protest, even if they can’tafford it.  We can create a federal lawbased on a 100% partisan vote, and then when it can’t pass both houses, we candeem it passed by using a trick called “reconciliation”!!!  It is genius, that way we can dictate tothe greedy protest insurers around the country a fair rate they can charge for theirrisk!!!

Phelps
Phelps

Need to lay off the HDR.

Robert
Robert

It seems like Occupy Dallas could purchase an insurance policy if Occupy Wall Street would hand over some of their WePay loot. Dallas, I suppose, isn't raising as much money in donations as the Wall Street group and that is unfair.

ElieVanHalen
ElieVanHalen

Your revolution is over, Occupy Dallas. Condolences. The bums lost. My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sirs. The bums will always lose.

Diane Birdwell
Diane Birdwell

We are not necessarily against what you are saying, but how you are doing it.

Kudos for not having any arrests, but exactly how is occupying a park accomplishing your goal of knocking down corporate greed? How does sleeping in a tent in a park reform the Fed? If you go home and sleep in your own bed, you are a sell-out? No more than sleepingin a North Face tent, checking Facebook while drinking bottled water.

A protest makes one point, one time. A MOVEMENT is more than kum-ba-yah in a park. It is THOUSANDS of hours, unpaid, working hard, not sleeping in. It is educating, not sign-making. It reaches out, not sits on its butt. It takes years, not days.

Real change is not instant coffee. It percolates under the surface, growing inside people's hearts ans souls over years. If you are already frustrated by a few bloggers' comments, man, you will not last at all. Reality check: PEOPLE  will attack your message, your methods and your people. If you are so thin-skinned as to whine about us not "knowing" or "understanding" your group's message, then maybe the message should be more about change, and less about parks and tents and permits.

Paul
Paul

Jason, please go back to telling how wonderful the bars are on on Lower Greenville and that we don't have to follow the P&Z ordinances as LG is an entertainment district.

Unfortunately, as we live in an increasingly urbanized society regulations involving basic social conduct are needed.  These are not "Do this" Don't Do That" Big Brother type strictures, but rather things like:

Don't annoy your neighbor.

No you can't sleep in a park at night because this is a park and not a campground besides other people might want to use it as well.

Yes, you can use a public park for a demonstration for (almost) whatever, but you will need to take care of things like toilets, litter, and Oh, just in case things get a little out of hand with your little wingding, you need to have liability insurance in case any gets hurt, 'cause gee, the other citizens don't want to pay for it.

If you don't like our rules, go ask Bank of America if you can use their open space and see what they say.

==============

I don't disagree with what their message is, what I disagree with is what they are doing with the commons.  I think so far that the city has been more than generous with this group and from what I have been reading has been more than accomodating to them

Larry L Johnson Jr
Larry L Johnson Jr

Jason,

Frankly I don't understand "what these people are doing?" What does this organization believe in? Frankly, it doesn't appear to be an organization with a central belief, so I don't know whether I support it or not.

Also, you're not exactly on the mark regarding great changes coming out of protests. Our country was founded not by peaceful protest but by war. For both the American Civil Rights movement and the India liberation movement both had high profile non-violent protests and those are the ones we focus on now but there were also militant organizations protesting in parallel that were advocating or executing significant violence on the existing regime.

Not that I'm supporting violence, I'm just saying historically speaking non-violent protest effectiveness is very questionable.

RTGolden
RTGolden

I think you might be missing some key points in some of the 'city ordinance' comments.  First, most of those, including myself, grant a grudging respect for the Occupy Dallas movement.  I may not agree with every single grievance that comes out of sound bites, but I respect their basic principle.  However, as has been said on many threads here, if you hold yourself above the law, above the societal rules the rest of us must follow, when you are protesting those who hold themselves above the law, it does weaken your grasp on the moral high ground.  I agree with their right to protest and peacefully assemble.  I don't agree with their decision to flout city ordinances and try to get away with something you or I would be put in jail for. (or, at least ticketed).  Second, camping in the park is not a protest, it's .... camping in the park.  I believe one of Schutze's articles stated ".... protest is performance..." and I agree with him.  Who are they performing for at 3:30am, other than this photographer?  At that point, remaining in the park is basically the juvenile act of civil disobedience with the sole intent of pushing the authorities to respond.  That benefits no one and serves only to weaken the cause they are 'defending'.

ElieVanHalen
ElieVanHalen

Jason, tell us what exactly "this organization believes in," and I'll tell you whether I agree with it and why.  From what I've seen, it looks like a bunch of attention whores with nothing better to do than shout slogans and whine that life's not fair.If their beliefs are anything like the 13 "demands" posted by occupy wall street (http://occupywallst.org/forum/..., then I think most rational people would disagree with them.    

heart and soul
heart and soul

Jason, I think the convention business crowd is the bunch that is trashing Occupy.The convention center has been losing money for years. I think they are afraid you will hurt the tourist trade LOL. The city should get out of this business that costs us hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and fire all these people. Instead they built a hotel to try to save them and threw more tax dollars into a losing business. It was a city financed bail out. I am sure these clowns are really worried by your protest. LOL

Derrick White
Derrick White

Come on man.  You know the answer to this question.  Most Americans, regardless of how bad or good things ever get, will consider themselves to be part of that beloved middle class.  Most everyone of us believe we can advance to the coveted upper class.  Why do people do/say things that obviously go against their self interest?  Because:

a. They  believe noismakers should shut up, get in line, keep their heads down, and follow the well travelled path (prefferably with a quickness).b.  They believe that noisemakers could ruin the ellusive American dream.  They fear that changes could be made that would preclude "THEM" from catching the gravy train. 

Those statements aren't intended to be "digs" at a particular group.  I think all of us at some point or another fall prey to this sort of illogical pattern. 

Observist
Observist

Protesters who agree with me are good Americans, fed up with the system, and excercising their contstitutional rights.  Protesters who disagree with me are a bunch of [perjorative perjorative perjoratives] who should just get a life.

Chris Danger
Chris Danger

Preach it! I find it interesting that many of those who are down there are good & respectful people, who want to help be the grassroots of change in the world, they have many different ideas on how to do it, but they lack the bad attitude and allusion they are owed like the baby-boomer led tea baggers. Many of these folks just want the ability to work in a proper, well paid job and afford their bills. I find that very honorable, these are the folks who need to lead in the years to come in this country...

Michael Briggs
Michael Briggs

Campaign Finance Reform. The resolution is to remove the influence and control of corporations on the government. 99.9% of our politicians are completely bought by corporations and we need a constitutional amendment to prohibit anyone from bribing our elected officials as they are doing now. See a draft of the amendment at http://www.getmoneyout.com

ElieVanHalen
ElieVanHalen

I don't think you're missing anything, Larry.  They are not looking for any real resolution (as further demonstrated by the fact that noone has answered your question since it was posted 2 hours ago).  Their ultimate goal (besides waiving signs and screaming for attention) is to get kicked out of the park and possibly arrested / pepper sprayed so they can scream "police brutality" and draw further attention to themselves.  Delicious attention.   

MattL1
MattL1

You really don't know what you're talking about.

jibba jabba
jibba jabba

look rat, the shyness routine is really starting to bother me..

Brian
Brian

Downward twinkles dude, downward twinkles.

Sybils_Beaver
Sybils_Beaver

are you suggesting taking from the rich to give to the poor?

Coleman
Coleman

There are no jobs, douche.

rotharoni
rotharoni

never really liked you with samantha hagar...

fed up and 26
fed up and 26

Fuck it...  The old man said to take any rug in the house.

Jason
Jason

Paul - It seems you brought a lot of baggage to your comment.   

First off.  You are wrong.  

You are wrong about me needing to "go back to telling how wonderful the bars are on on Lower Greenville..."  I have never ever said that.  I have always claimed that the city is using tactics to shut down, in their words, "bad bars" by using city code to get rid of them.  I'm not going to go any further on that in this thread because one has nothing to do with the other.

But, here we are.  The city is requiring these protesters to get insurance when it is not required by the cities code for the amount of participants.  Again, here is the city using something to get rid of someone.  It should be pretty obvious why the city gave them the permit but they are trying to limit them by using code.  Sounds familiar.  

Now, let's deal with this park.  Have you been there?  Did you try and go down there to use the park?  My gut tells me that if you did go down there these people would be very accommodating.  They don't want to fight every day citizens.  

I think what you are doing is making up scenarios to fit your argument.  An argument, I might add, that seems to stem from some kind of grievance you have with me from the Lower Greenville situation.  Sorry about that.  I still think you are wrong and that you should have known where you were moving, but I'm sorry.  Can we make up?  As others have called me around these parts before, I'm just a "white guilt libtard".  I honestly mean no harm.  I just don't like people to be trampled on by government (city and federal).  I like citizens voices to be heard.  Do you know how many protests go on in America all the time?  A lot.  You probably haven't heard of them because they go unnoticed.  Somehow, this has traction.  It started in NY and has made its way to cities across the country.  You might judge how it spread but you can't deny that it did spread.  Even you mentioned that you might not disagree with what they are protesting about.  How do you suggest citizens get their voices heard?  Call their representatives?  You see what goes on in Washington and that's their point.  These people have grievances and feel that they are not getting heard by the people that were elected to represent them.  It's happening in cities all over the country.  So, I ask.  What should they do?  Should they be violent to be heard?  Should they send out postcards to people in the mail?  What do citizens do to get HEARD?????

And seriously - don't prejudge me based on comments I made about Lower Greenville.  Especially on a subject that is much larger than some bars in your neighborhood.  I thought I respected your opinion as a homeowner and thought we just disagreed.  I liked you.  Thoughtful discourse.  I think you're wrong but don't judge me for that.  People are going to disagree.  That's life.  That's our country.  Protest is what we have.  

Now, excuse me if I rambled.  I'm in the glow of a post-game Rangers win!  Go down to the park tomorrow.  Let me know what time.  I'll meet you there.  I can help clear some space for you and your family and friends.  But even if I wasn't there I'm sure you could ask one of the officers to help get a nice spot to enjoy the big metal cows.  Life really shouldn't be this difficult.

Moustache
Moustache

"I don't disagree with what their message is, what I disagree with is what they are doing with the commons. "

In exactly what way has this impacted you? How much money would the occupation have to cost you, personally, before you thought it would be better to inconvenience the exercise of free speech? Or is it just one of those "principle of the thing" deals, where you ideologically have a problem with something you've imagined...

TeaBagHater
TeaBagHater

You are exactly right Chris. The sooner we rid ourselves of these baby-boomers that carry so much hate, racism etc.........the better. 

Derrick White
Derrick White

Curious to understand...  What are the main issues you are hearing from the people that are actually there? 

Cyborg01
Cyborg01

There are lots of jobs in DFW

George
George

I'll suck you c*ck for a thousand dollars. Brandt can't watch. Or he has to pay a hundred.

Paul
Paul

Hello Jason:

Yes you did ramble.  From your comments, I am presuming that your are of a libertarian bent.

We will probably just continue to disagree on a number of things.

From your comments about the LG situation, I came to the conclusion that you think that that situation is acceptable.

In this instance of the Occupy Dallas situation, you talk of this group being required to do things that are not required of other groups.  Yet on LG, you think that it is acceptable that certain businesses can do things that other businesses cannot.  Your argument and position is conflicted as at one point you say that rules must be followed and in another situation they do not have to be followed.  This being bars on LG don't have to follow P&Z ordinances and the City of Dallas must follow the rules for Occupy Dallas.  Which is it?

If you will read my other posts, you will see that I have been of the opinion that the City of Dallas has been very acommodating to this group.  You will also see that I am neutral at best about their protest and in fact support their right to protest.  Their use of the park is an entirely separate matter.

I have done special events with the City on common property for as few as 50 people and have had to meet a number of requirements, including insurance.

A demand that is placed as to whether or not I have physically gone to the park is immaterial to the debate at hand.  We are discussing what consititutes permissible use of the commons in our City.

If you would like to debate a particular subject, please go back and review how to present a position and how to support that position to attempt to convince someone else of the merits of your position.

The attempted argument you present above is neither compelling nor persuasive.  It also lacks any kind of logical structure.

Please go back and do it over.

To summarize:  It is my opinion that Occupy Dallas is well within their rights to assemble peacably and voice their protest.  I do not believe that Occupy Dallas has a right to occupy and use Pioneer Park without meeting reasonable requirements from the City of Dallas.

The City of Dallas does have ordinances that prohibit camping or sleeping overnight in City parks.  These ordinances are not an infringement on the right to free speech but are necessary for the public welfare.Sincerely

Paul
Paul

The park is a commons and we have rules in this somewhat civilized society as to how the commons may be used.

This has nothing to do with their exercise of free speech.  This has to do with the use of the commons.

They are protesting people who allegedly are not following the laws of our society yet they are also flouting our laws.  Their  position is hypocritical.

I am affected because I am not able to use the commons in an acceptable manner.

It is not a manner of how much money this is costing me.  The social contract of acceptable behavior has been unilaterally abrogated by this group.

Cyborg01
Cyborg01

The people that are complaining about this are the people being told to complain about it. The ones opposed to something like this are nothing more than sheep who get upset when they put extra water troughs in the pen. They get nervous and make noise. Anyone who says "Yeah, but the tea party was different" is right, the Tea Party was bought and paid for by the same people telling these kids to go home. 

Cyborg01
Cyborg01

They left out "There's a Black Guy as President" on the Tea Party Graph

Chris Danger
Chris Danger

I look at it this way: Either we all are part of the soultion or none of us are.

ElieVanHalen
ElieVanHalen

Oh, what a great point!We are tired or Business As Usual!  We demand that Business be Less Usual!!!!!1!!

Chris Danger
Chris Danger

Derrick, many of them are tired of "Business As Usual" when it comes to both US government and private sector interests. Eventhough im more a moderate dem, I agree with these folks, we need some serious change to the way handle this countries affairs. Its been across the board from making govt/corp. more responsible for their actions to pushing for true environmental change....

Coleman
Coleman

And I agree that there are some jobs out there, but the problem is that they're jobs that don't pay a livable wage or provide insurance coverage. And while I think more people should just strike out on their own and start more small businesses, there's a lot of bureaucratic red tape that stands in the way of that (especially in Dallas). It's just not as simple as "go work at McDonalds" or whatever.

Sybils_Beaver
Sybils_Beaver

good, glad you found a job.  there are jobs out there, just maybe not what each individual "feels" he should have to step down to

Coleman
Coleman

I was until fairly recently for about a year, actually.

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