Garcia Defends Private Redistricting Meetings; Calls Morgan, Halstead "Dinosaurs of Dallas"

Categories: City Hall
RuthMorganatCouncil97.JPG
Ruth Morgan addressing Mayor Mike Rawlings in a clip that follows after the jump
As we noted yesterday, during her presentation of the Redistricting Commission's proposed map to the city council, chair Ruth Morgan mentioned that one member of the commission, whom she later identified as Domingo Garcia, held "private meetings" with other commissioners in the last month of the redistricting process. The whole thing, Morgan told us, was contrary to the commission's "rules, regulations and practice." She wasn't mad, she said, just disappointed (which, as anybody with a mother knows, feels way worse). This morning, we finally got Garcia on the phone for his response.

"These were not private meetings, OK?" he said. "These were consultations with people that have a stake in these neighborhoods."

Garcia also told The Dallas Morning News that these consultations were done to avoid discussing individual blocks or homeowners associations in a public forum, which would have been "tedious." We asked for examples. He cited District 12, which he said needed to cede around 9,000 people to District 11, and the contentious boundaries between Districts 6 and 13 in the northwest part of town.

"I have no idea, being a resident of Oak Cliff, what would be acceptable in 11 or 12," he told us. "So I talked to neighborhood leaders from the Preston area of North Dallas to get their response. I think that's the proper way to do it. There was nothing secret about it."

These consultations, he insisted, are the same process that happens in any political body anywhere. "Whether it's the U.S. Congress or the Texas House of Representatives, there's always caucuses and meetings all the time," he said. "As long as you don't have a quorum, that's perfectly legal. We always followed the legal procedures and guidelines in all our meetings."

The real problem, he said, is Morgan's own background. "I think Dr. Morgan comes from an academic world where theory and the ivory tower concepts kind of dictate," he said. "It's not ... she did not grasp that the political process is about talking to people and getting input.

"This is democracy in action," he insisted. "To try to do what Dr. Morgan suggests is in essence to sit on a throne and listen to the subjects come petition you and try to make a decision as a philosopher king. That's not American democracy."

Garcia also believes Morgan represents an different era in the city's history. "You have old Dallas as reflected by Dr. Morgan, who wrote a book which criticized Judge [Jerry] Buchmeyer and the 14-1," he said. "She basically comes from the Old South, the old way of doing things in Dallas."

So too does commissioner Donna Halstead, he added, who was, if you recall, the other commissioner who declined to meet with Garcia outside of City Hall.

"Their influence is waning," Garcia said. "In my opinion, you're seeing the last gasps of that era. It's reflected in these two women, with their baseless accusations. ... The most contentious part of this process was that I tried to create a minority district in northeast Dallas, which is now majority minority, in the Lake Highlands area, and I couldn't get enough votes. Mrs. Halstead is still upset about that."

Ultimately, Garcia said, his map still passed the commission with an 11-4 vote. "The only ones that did not vote for it were the four Anglo commission members from North Dallas," he said. "If you think of the dynamics, the Anglo commissioners that have city council districts that border minority districts -- Districts 14, Brooks Love; District 13, Elizabeth Jones; Corky Sherman in Oak Cliff -- they voted for [plan 16]. It's just the old guard, the dinosaurs of Dallas, that voted against it."

Garcia added that even though a meeting outside of City Hall might appear improper, it's really not. "Your former reporter for the Dallas Observer named Laura Miller always complained that city ouncil did things behind closed doors and there were executive meetings," he said. "Then when she became mayor, she realized nothing secretive was done behind closed doors. Sometimes perception is not reality."

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sandra crenshaw
sandra crenshaw

does anybody know what they were talking about. each of the public plan submitters were asked intimidating questions as to who did you talk to. I am serious! Did anyone pay you to draw the map???? What is your educational level. and literally told how to amend their maps to protect the Medranos or white Oak Cliff or Northwest Dallas. They were asked if they had ever been to South Dallas or Oak Cliff to know where to draw the lines. But the citizens were not privy to why they drew the lines they did.

Diane Birdwell
Diane Birdwell

The answer they will give you is that they base it on requirements from the CRVA of 1965 AND citizen input AND previous lines....

Paul
Paul

I wonder if DG took a lesson from JWP and will whip out a map at the next meeting that is radically different from what was discussed in the public meetings.

Say what you will about Mrs. Halstead (Sorry, callling her Ms. just does not seem right.) a dinosaur is really an insult.  I have always found her to be highly reliable and open.  Sure she had an agenda but you knew where you stood and you could discuss different viewpoints with her.

This sleazeball tactic of talking with only one other member at a time and going round robin with other members is truly disgusting.  DG will look you in the eye and claim that nothing is going on when in fact commission business is being conducted.  If there is nothing to it, then why can't the matter be discussed in public.  This tactic undermines the very principle of open meetings.

Any public body has the right to go into executive session to discuss anything, but the decision must be made in public.

Hasanmary
Hasanmary

I use to feel that way when I was a council assistant but after serving with her on the redistricting committee, my opinion has changed.  I've seen the other side.

AintNoSunshine
AintNoSunshine

No, they cannot go into executive session, " to discuss anything." There are legal reasons, and illegal reasons. Its clearly written in the legislation. 

Paul
Paul

Thanks for the clarification ...

Paul
Paul

Thanks again ... My understanding was that discussions may be held in executive session but that the decision that is the outcome of that discussion must be made in an open meeting.

As an example, discussion to retain counsel in a personnel dispute may be made in executive session, but the decision to retain the outside counsel for the purpose of representation in a personnel dispute must be made in an open meeting.

AintNoSunshine
AintNoSunshine

No problem, but as further clarification: If you were correct, they would have a free pass to entirely circumvent the Open Meetings Act altogether. All meetings would go into executive session to avoid transparency and openness . Something I am sure Dallas City Council as well as the County would love to do. 

Diane Birdwell
Diane Birdwell

Hey, Domingo, enjoy it while you have it, because, mi Amigo, you are also a dinosaur. Just as in the African American political arena in Dallas, a new generation of Latinos are being educated and are quietly watching. They are waiting for you to get old, get tired or move on. They owe no allegiance to you, nor do they want to play your old-style political games. They are watching the FBI rip apart the status quo in one part of town. What other part of town is next??? No verdad?

Anon
Anon

This is wishful thinking, and frankly, seems fairly racist to me. It is predicated on the idea that all minority political bosses are corrupt and will eventually be fired by voters who only now are beginning to know better - my question would be, how does this explain the even longer history of corrupt white politicians in Dallas who deliver favors to a select few but are elected by the many? Domingo's and Elba's actions may stink but they are far smarter about the way they operate than JWP. For Latinos, it has never been, and never will be, about fighting against the oppression of the white man. JWP could do whatever he wanted and his anti-white "street cred" meant cruising to easy re-election. It really made absolutely no difference whether he was delivering to his voters or not, and that complacency made him lazy about even maintaining the appearance of propriety. Latinos don't, as a rule, vote this way, and so anyone who wants to deliver them as a voting block has to be smarter. I'd say Domingo and Elba are only getting started and that we will all see them playing a big role in Dallas city and county politics for years to come.

Diane Birdwell
Diane Birdwell

Racism is a false flag argument. I know several YOUNGER Hispanics in the Dalals area who are just biding their time, working, some just graduating from college, waiting, working, waiting...You want to know what they---the so-called leaders, really tell their constituents? They tell them--because my students and their families hear this--- Don't learn English. That is betraying your heritage. Wow, how convenient. Keep them on the periphery of Dallas lilfe, so you alone can talk to them in their native tongue. Limit their access to OTHER points of view, then allege racism if someone learns ANOTHER language OTHER than Spanish! Or worse,complains when they do not speak English.

Domingo is not just getting started. He has been in this forever. His family is one of the original ones, like the Medranos. You see, they see the demographic shift and envision a Latino Empire, with them at the top, controlling the contract agreements, then appointments. Come on, we saw this movie with an earlier cast. One goes to the county, another to DISD, another to the City Council. And yes, the North Dallas Oligarchy has reached some of them, too. The joke is that Latinos vote in much smaller numbers. Many--and most in some areas, just CANNOT vote because they are not citizens. Others, because they do not speak English, do not care. Domingo's group sent out emails a couple of weeks ago about the DISD redistricting. It gave the incorrect, illogical argument that they needed more reps on the DISD Bd of Trustees because so many of our kids are Hispanic, forgetting that it is about the WHOLE city's population, NOT the students, that is taken into account when divying up areas. So, you may think they are smarter, but they sure treat their own as if they were stupid.

Anon
Anon

But why isn't this true of EVERY demographic in Dallas, or the country for that matter? Latinos aren't special in that they will sell out their own race for political gain (to say nothing of the $$$ involved). That was my only point in your comparison between JWP and the Garcia cartel being racist. And what is so different about Garcia saying they should control DISD because they make up more of the student base and white people saying they own the majority of the capital and resources and should therefore have outsized influence on that basis? Also, I guess I should have made clear that I am well aware of how long they have been in politics, and I'd point out that they have both made their way through the city council for the maximum term - they don't divide and conquer they just move on to a new fiefdom once the system kicks them out of one (and then they make sure their successor toes the line). Isn't the bigger point here that politicians, by and large, are self-serving charlatans, and most voters are idiots who are easily manipulated? If there's one thing that helps me sleep at night when I think about the people who would try to point out the chasms between races, it's that in the end, every skin color manages to vote for the same brand of snake oil salesman - just a slightly different model in each case.Am I trying to defend the way Garcia operates? Clearly not. But to pretend that this isn't just politics as usual is asinine.

Jeneheffer
Jeneheffer

There are persons on the city council and also county commissioners court who operate behind closed doors.  It is disappointing that we can't trust our representatives to be honest. Domingo has the ethics of Don Hill.

Omar Jimenez
Omar Jimenez

I just feel really fishy about this plan. Now that there were private meetings, could it been a conspiracy to get rid of Bill Betzens Plan? Thats when Dr. Morgan Talked about the time for the meeting and the vote to pick the top maps. She was the only person that voted for that map that was fair and gave the numbers. Hey, his numbers were much more bigger when taking VAP into account with Hispanics and Blacks, so thats a big plus!

Omar Jimenez
Omar Jimenez

Ms. Hasan, the Private Meeting is the one that raises eyebrowns, and I think the Citizens of Dallas would demand what was going on in that meeting. That what I really care about right now. What was that meeting about? That is the question that everyone wants to know. As a commissioner, it was your duty to serve the people in a open and more transparent process. As I really agree that the Redistricting Process was 98% Open, why was the 2% "So-Called" Not?

Hasanmary
Hasanmary

Omar, I don't know about any private meetings.  Whether you know it or not, there can only be so many citizens in each district.  As I said Pleasant Grove did not want Kleberg and there were more than enough people in the Grove to make a district.  I don't need you to tell me what my duties were.  If you think that what you wanted was more important than all the people from your neighborhood who signed  petitions stating that they wanted to remain in District 8, then you have a problem.  I told you at the meeting that I had petition signed by residents in Kleberg wanting to remain in the district.  YOU were the only one advocating being in Pleasant Grove.  Do you get it, the only one!  I don't know what else to say to you because you just don't get it.  The petition was not just signed by black and whites.  Hispanics also signed the petition.  You need to get over it.  Democracy does not mean that one person rules and you seem to be of the opinion that because you wanted to be in the Grove, to hell with the rest of the people.  I disagree and after this post I will not be responding to anything else you say.  As I said before get over it.

sandra crenshaw
sandra crenshaw

Omar, Bill's map was his own personal obsession with the mathematics of demographics and nothing else. the commissioners were being kind to him for his vigor and commitment to what he believed in. Hispanics and blacks live in different neighborhoods just like North Dallas. The goal in redistricting to pool like minded people in the same district with common interests of how this city is to be governed, the citizens in the M Streets are not interested in the recreation center hours at Polk rec center across town or the noise level at Love Field. The yuppies in West Village are not concerned with the rec hours in Plesant Oaks. Bill listened only to those who supported what he wanted. He sincerelly tried to justify putting city place in a south oak cliff district because of Freedman's cemetary. I know Dwaine is  known to be sleazy but dead folks haven't voted since LBJ days. e-mail me at lacpac2011@yahoo.com or call me at 214-498-5298 for more where do you live his map and I'll bring it home for your neighborhood.   

Ms Freedmans
Ms Freedmans

Hold up, he tried to put one of the oldest African American communities with some Black representation, that is very much needed, the community has been Gerrymander and packed, with Anglos, but ain't nobody saying nothing, I went to the meetings for that reason and Mr. Betzen was doing infact just with I was looking and I didn't know him Adam from Steve, I say you all are living in apartied in tha Southern Sector and yall like it, with no Grogcery Stores , no Shopping, etc........ How could you not want to be apart of FreedmansTown, home of your ancestors, 14-1 help kill the neighbor hood with no representation for the last 20 years I'm still down there, with no disrespect to you Mrs. Crenshaw I had to make a comment on that, it some Jim Crow things going on ain't nobody saying nothing, African American Leaders tearing down Housing , and know the will not be replaced, but want to cry about seats, what were they thinking, and steady voting to have housing built in District 2-14 , with poor peoples MONEY, but it for the well to do they need to get up, I believe the sprits in those Houses they live in, from tha WHITE FLITE, got in'em> Just as I believe REV.A.R GRIGGS has touched me , and not one African American REpresenitive has mase a proposal to have his park made Historic, oh we have no respect for our History forgot, today the Largest Park ever for African Americans will be destroyed and redisigned and the Children of Roseland Home wil have no input know History of the Community, I asked for Griggs Park to be placed with Roseland hPMES aND fREEDMANS cEMETARY, WITH 500 SIGNITURES i GOT NO RESOPNSE, NOT 1 aFRICAN aMERICAN ASED ME A QUESTION, ABOUT MY CONCERNS, THE Anglos no resopnse,they are trying to move the Hispanics from being apart of Downtown one Hispanican rep. brought up that Downtown should have 3 rep. not one African American second it, it's sad why wouldn't you want to be apart of Downtown Dallas. I feel we as African Americans Need to googled the History of Dallas if your going to be on a sear espically if your not from DaLLAS.Start with Rev. A.R.GRiggs.

Hasanmary
Hasanmary

You really have a problem.  A conspiracy theory, be for real.  Pleasant Grove did not want you in their district.  Get over it!

sandra crenshaw
sandra crenshaw

Mary, the real reason why Bill wanted Kleberg in Plesant Grove is because his second compulsive  obesssiion is  with straight lines and compact districts. I read in the record Justice O' Connor position on compact districts. Omar does not understand that Kleber Rylie is an active voting neighborhood that organized to demand basic services like fire stations and a library and   after they were annexed into Dallas. They have different needs than the Hispanic brothers and sisters in Pleasant Grove. Hispanic culture is a different world. They have been successfull in demanding stores and businesses that reflect their culture along Buckenr, they have Hispanic resteraunts and night clubs in Old Pleasant Grove that has better infrasture paved streets with curbs and gutters than many of the neighborhoods in. South east Oak Cliff and Kleberg Rylie better than many white North Dallas neighborhoods annexed in the  early 1900;s  We still have horses in front yards in SE Oak Cliff and kleberg. Nobody I mean Nobody in this city knows District 8 better than I set the standards when I hired you in 1994 and you have served almost twenty years under four council persons who were supported by votes from the KR because of your consiuency service and yet Bill went by his own drum beat. The district 8 configuration has passed the Justice Department for two decades, so what I can't understand is why the  Dallas Morning News, the citizen's council and white folks like Bill Bertzen are grieved over the 20 mile long district when most of it is vacant undevelopable land around the trinity. The courts have opined that with modern communications, compactness is a subordinate redistricting principle. What's really going on ? mary  Hit me back

Omar Jimenez
Omar Jimenez

Ms. Crenshaw, isn't that how a map is supposed to be? A straight and compact map? Hey, I'm a voter in Kleberg, I lived in Kleberg for 16 years now, so I understand the issues thats going on. Crime is one issue that we are still dealing with, and at the some some sometimes council members cared for us, and some only dealt with Oak Cliff, it's always someone from there that gets elected. Al Lipscomb was one of the people who actually cared for us trying to get our Library. Yes, Hispanic Culture is different, and that how I was raised, in a Mexican Household with our traditions that we still hold on from our land. My point was, it never made sense for me to have a 34 mile district as well as the others, and the the North Side has about a 10 mile long district. Yes, I think the West Village should be with Uptown, not with the Grove, that how I fell. Really now, all I can do is change my voter registration down here to school when I'm off campus after 2013. I feel like it won't count since the map is a disservice to the Hispaincs of Kleberg where it would boost the Pleasent Grove Numbers. Look how ist changed after you left office till now with our Stores and Hispainc owned business we have here now.

Hasanmary
Hasanmary

I too wish I knew what is really going on.

Hasanmary
Hasanmary

I voted for the unity map because it kept District 8 unified.  I didn't vote for Mr. Betzen's map because he felt that he knew what was best for District 8, inspite of what the petitions and speakers from the district said.  He did listen to his neighborhood and placed them back in the district but no one else.  I didn't support Brashear's map because it divided 8 so that his councilmember could pick up economic engines and there was no community of interest between Arden Terrace, Highland Hills and the Redbird area.  As Mr. Brashear stated the are the most affluent and most educated.  I felt that their community of interest was west.  Donna's map was insulting.  She gave Councilwoman Hill everything she wanted at the expense of District 4,and 8.  They were working together, a matter of record and I will always believe Donna drew Hollis' map.  Donna's map had 5 hispanic districts, 2 of which they probably would not have won.  She got rid of District 14 as we know it.  Most of the city's so called economic engines were controlled by white councilmembers.  Pleasant Grove did not want Kleberg/Rylie and vice versa.  Changes were made to this map up until the vote was taken.  Parkdale wanted to be in District 7 and that change was made.  A Pemberton Hill neighborhood wanted to be in the Pleasant Grove district and that change was made. 

This was the first redistricting commission I served on and my last.  I had many sleepless nights because I was concern about poor people being placed in a district that cared nothing about their living conditions.  Right or wrong, I represented the citizens of District 8.  I knew that I would have a tough fight when I went on the commission but I never thought that the fight would be because of a total disregard of the citizens to obtain businesses, some of which are not even city businesses. This is one of those jobs where you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.  

sandra crenshaw
sandra crenshaw

Ruth ought to quit, the only thing transparent during this process was morgan and halstead's efforts to keep 7 white seats, garcia's dynasty incumbent protection,* and a rift between hill and caraway" undue influence and piss match with Hill over cherry picking city assets.  Why did ruth wait until she lost to bust Garcia, why not call him out in the public at the commission. She is at fault  by allowing  Carraway, an incumbent and the citizen council President to present maps and before the public maps, these two factors were the salvos to the civil war, I had to act a fool to get her stop the commissioners from brow beating the public plan submitters into drawing whiter districts. Garcia is not worried about hispanic % percentages because there is no way you can get around the high hispanic population anywhere south of mockingbird.  He just took advantage of the rifts among the blacks to get his eight votes. I aint mad at him. I believe he even cut a deal with Halstead. Notice she got her white district 10 minus the DISD in 16a (  a buzz word for black and hispanics )  In fact, I understand it. thank god for federal oversight to protect us from incumbents. we are not a powerless people After two decades of 14-1 I think it is time for a referendum on 10-4-1. How about November. (District 1 Garcia  district 2 Medr ano   district 6 Alonzo   district 7 Ragsdale and district 4 Carraway)   Carraway led no, he strong armed the three black commissioners to this end.

akins
akins

The whole Redistricting Committee did an outstanding job keeping the process transparent.  Mr. Garcia did not selectively seek input from anyone.   The Committee was in need of as much pertinent information to each District that it could get its hands on.  The initial maps were splitting many school district and homeowner association boundaries into two Council districts. This divides "Communities of Interest" which is not the goal of redistricting.

Chris Danger
Chris Danger

Is it me or is Domingo Garcia looking more and more like a portly Fisher Price Little Person these days???

Tim H
Tim H

of course hispanics sue Farmers Branch whenever they see 2 council members talking at a Tom Thumb, but when they meet behind closed doors in Dallas its ok, hypocrites

soaustinbrother
soaustinbrother

Can't see real good, but is Domingo dyeing his hair?

Bpl7
Bpl7

I don't always agree with him, but he pretty much nailed it. Didn't know she wrote a book criticizing 14-1. Next!

Brenda Marks
Brenda Marks

She didn't.  She wrote a book about the history of the Voting Rights Act and its application in Dallas.  It was a very interesting and academic book.  And I actually read it.  And yes, she had criticisms (some quite valid IMHO) about 14-1.  But that wasn't the theme of the book.

Heywood U Buzzoff
Heywood U Buzzoff

"These were not private meetings, OK?" he said. "These were consultations with people that have a stake in these neighborhoods." -- Well, Ding-o is a lawyer and he probably bills the city at a higher rate for 'consultations' than 'meetings', 'muttering to him self', or 'singing in the shower'.  Of course if an Anglo had a consultation,  Ding-o and his wife  El-bo would scream that the open meetings rules were violated. 

Wylie H.
Wylie H.

Who the hell gave Garcia the right to determine who the "people (are) that have a stake in these neighborhoods?"

Mountain Creek
Mountain Creek

"In my opinion, you're seeing the last gasps of that era."

Age discrimination?

Save Them
Save Them

Garcia's discrimination is against integrity and character and honesty - - qualities with which he is totally unfamiliar and incapable of understanding.

Lee
Lee

His reasoning is absurd, but I like his map.

heart and soul
heart and soul

Garcia did a good job of bringing people together.  Haters are going to hate but everything Garcia is saying is true.

Omar Jimenez
Omar Jimenez

Only West Dallas and Lake Highlands, they are the only winners in the new map. We still have to pay for gerrymandering. Look at the news District 8, 2, and 14. It seems that some people are not educated enough on this issue because they don't understand how wrong it is to pay for 7 meetings, and having to go far at this rate of the tank of gas. It all has to be about having the same intrest and neighborhoods. I rather have a person thats 10 or 15 minutes for me to speak too, then having to go 34 miles to speak with my councilman. Agian, I can care less about how my council person is, but Dallas People tend to vote for people because of color. Look at JWP as a prime example. People vote for people for color, not because they are going to do a good job as a official.

Sharon Boyd
Sharon Boyd

The biggest haters in this town are JWP and Domingo Garcia.   If Domingo Garcia ever said anything true, it was an acident.  He's an ambulance chasing self-promoter.

Jeneheffer
Jeneheffer

You rang the bell of truth on Garcia, too bad the city is stuck with him on the redistrictingcommission. Who the heck appointed him????  

Thelisma Partridge
Thelisma Partridge

Like the man said, "Sometimes perception is not reality".  I think that applies to your comment as well.

Anonymous
Anonymous

I don't mean to make this sound like White Guilt, or justify his actions because of his race. But it's sort of interesting that politics/business have operated this way FOREVER, and now that white people see the writing on the wall (ie, the decline of their political influence) this kind of behavior is absolutely unacceptable.

AintNoSunshine
AintNoSunshine

You just nailed it: Case in Point, Donna Halstead (President of Dallas Citizens Council - DCC) sent an email to Garcia stating she would not attend the SECRET meeting in fear it would violate the Open Meetings Act. What the Hell??? I thought the DCC ran/owned Dallas and we just lived here and paid taxes to them. Now the DCC is fearful of violating some state or federal law, they had been violating for years, while running THEIR TOWN.

Yeah, it all goes back to that "NEW SHERIFF IN TOWN." He's not even here yet, but they hear those thunderous footsteps coming this way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Guest
Guest

This kind of thing was always unacceptable to me, but until fairly recently, we wouldn't have heard about a lot of these unacceptable meetings and didn't have a forum to voice our displeasure.

Anonymous
Anonymous

I meant powerful white people. There will always be a small contingency of people who see the wrong but are powerless to stop it.

Buckeye
Buckeye

Kinda sounds like, "You're all white.  Go to hell."

Guest
Guest

I'm not sure Mr. Garcia is one to be speaking for Laura Miller. 

lorlee
lorlee

I call bull. He wasn't worried about neighborhoods or communities of interest.  Just simple gerrymandering. 

I tried to get the 107 houses in my neighborhood on the East side of Dolpin road connected to the rest of us in District 2 under the plan on the table.  And they got left in Dist 7 and have to cross the creek to be anywhere close to it -- an island totally disconnected from 7.  Moving them wouldn't have affected anything and in fact would have increased the Hispanic numbers in Dist 2.

We need to stand up to people with blatant political agendas. 

Omar Jimenez
Omar Jimenez

Ya, that how I feel about Kleberg and District 8. In fact, it would of increase Hispanic numbers for Pleasant Grove too since it's make the majority in my neck of the woods.

Titus Groan
Titus Groan

Defending secret meetings as "democracy in action" deserves some sort of rhetorical award.

Michael C
Michael C

My thoughts exactly.

Plus, anytime someone says "We didn't have a quorum, so it was okay", you KNOW that they knew what they were doing wasn't on the up-and-up. Otherwise, they wouldn't have sat there and counted people to make sure they didn't make quorum.

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