As Crown and Harp, Zubar and Libertine Get SUPs, Concerns Over Greenville Ave. Parking

richardsonandnorthrup.jpg
Bruce Richardson, left, and Mike Northrup spoke to council today about Lower Greenville parking issues
Turned in to the council meeting to watch the The Crown and Harp, Zubar and The Libertine get their specific use permits renewed; I know -- quite the life, no? Reason I wanted to watch was sooner than later that proposed Lowest Greenville bowling alley's going to come before the council, and I wanted to see what kind of chat the council was going to have about the state of Greenville Ave. and, more specifically, whether it would address the use of that Planned Development District ordinance passed in January.

All three got their SUPs renewed, per the recommendations of the City Plan Commission, but not before Mike Northrup and Bruce Richardson, representing the surrounding neighborhood associations, spoke about the parking problem on Greenville Avenue. Northrup, the attorney who helped kill the bowling alley at CPC, said this wouldn't be the last time the issue came up either, as "it affects not only this particular applicant," he said, referring to Crown and Harp, "but the forthcoming ones too."

At issue, he said, is the shortage of parking spaces -- as in, some of the older buildings have been allowed to exist with "zero parking spaces ... and that's a concern for the neighborhood associations." At which point he mentioned the 1986 Lower Greenville Avenue Parking Study, which said that area needs 1,500 more spaces for the businesses that were in existence way back then. But since those older, grandfathered properties were given their delta credits, saying they didn't need to add new spots, "that contributes to problems on Lower Greenville," as Northrup put it.

He proposed the council use the SUP process to "remedy the problem ... The neighborhood says, 'We can sustain the number [of spaces] this particular operator has.' Well, what about the next one and the one after that and the one after that? Having a late-night SUP is not a right. It's a privilege, so the neighborhood suggests this council give due consideration to using the SUP process ... to help us remedy a situation we've lived with for over 30 years."

When it came to to speak about Zubar, Richardson took to the podium. He had nothing but the nicest things to say about the operator and Roger and Marc Andres, who own the building. Because, see, they haven't used so-called delta credits to keep from having to add spaces. They've done it "to code," in the words of Masterplan's Dallas Cothrum, who repped Zubar in front of the council. Richardson heartily agreed.

"I am here actually to report the ways in which this operator has distinguished himself -- and the property owner as well, Andres Properties," he said. "Mr. Northrup mentioned delta credits, and that has been a huge concern of this neighborhood. It's a little inaccurate to call it a parking deficit. The spaces do, in fact, exist, but with delta credits, even when someone has parking spaces they don't come off the map. What that means is one assumes that a community retail district creates a balance of uses because a restaurant or pub parks one [space] to 100 [square feet], where a retail parks 1 to 200. [Except] restaurants and pubs need more parking, so if we have delta credits and in those space that have delta credits we have restaurant-bar, restaurant-bar, restaurant-bar, this quickly exhausts parking supply in the entire district and leads to the suffocation, for lack of a better word, for less impactful uses."

The bowling alley will come before council soon. The parking issue isn't going anyway.

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42 comments
Clayton Darnell
Clayton Darnell

I'll say it again, If anyone really cared about having businesses that support "The Neighborhood" these "neighborhood leaders" would quit worrying about parking. Any one local should be encouraged to taxi, bus, walk or bike to any of these locations. I think the fact there is a huge focus on parking ruins half the argument that we need business for the neighborhood.

abuckley1970
abuckley1970

All of this talk about new urbanism, e.g. narrow streets, reduced parking and 'green' standards and parking is still the tail that wags the dog.

Jon Daniel
Jon Daniel

there is not one business in Dallas that has a shortage of parking. There are only customers too lazy to walk 3 blocks

Greenvillepal
Greenvillepal

Why do delta parking credits have anything to do with the bowling alley?

Diane Birdwell
Diane Birdwell

So, what is the plan for the old Whole Foods site? Why not make it into a parking lot? And also, the DART thing is smart....why not have buses run from the Mockingbird Station to go up and down Greenville?

Marvin
Marvin

Why aren't there any DART stops between Citi and Mockingbird.  Isn't solving traffic/parking problems exactly like this the main reason DART exists.

Dave_little
Dave_little

Man, if we could only park on the streets around lower greenville...

Kevin Kirby
Kevin Kirby

When did Phil Spector open a place on Lower Greenville?

Mcdonald Simon
Mcdonald Simon

@LaceyB we actually have and will always have 22 spaces for The Libertine in the lot from now on.  And parking will always be validated on the weekends.  Just ask your server!

Mcdonald Simon
Mcdonald Simon

@Dave Little - isnt there word of a Wal Mart Neighborhood store moving in there?  And @chevytexas, Bruce Richardsons locks are indeed divine.

Chevytexas
Chevytexas

PS: Am I the only one who wishes he had Bruce Richardson's fabulous locks? Reminds me of His Hairness Craig Holcombe, also of that sainted neighborhood.

Mcdonald Simon
Mcdonald Simon

It was a super fun day!  In all honesty, the city was pretty easy and helpful throughout the whole process.  Mrs. Hunt and Ms. Medrano were nothing short of amazing concerning The Libertine, as well as the city staff (we couldn't have done this without Richard Brown and Dr. Peterson at the CPC).  I'm having a beer at this awesome bar now, and can't wait to have a million more for the next four years!  Yay us!

Guesto
Guesto

There's a ton of parking lots that are unused on Bell and Alta, and other parts. The problem is not the lack of spots, but the fact that the city can't tell those business owners to open up their lots after hours. The biggest offender in this case is the former Whole Foods/Blockbuster lot, which has been empty for a couple of years now, yet still threatens would-be parkers with tows.

LaceyB
LaceyB

I think there's like 5 designated spots in front of the Libertine, other than the parking lot thing across the street. I can all but guarantee that the tchotchke shop next door does not need 100 parking spots. Or make as good of a grilled cheese. They need more bar parking. Period.

No Bus On Greenville
No Bus On Greenville

The neighbors were not put on this earth, or in this city, to support the businesses in the neighborhood. Their business plans do not require me to buy so many meals a month just to keep them in business.

If they do not have enough parking spaces (past the minimally required amount per city law), it is not my responsibility to let their patrons park in front of my house and wake me up at 3am.

But my house - my property - my home - is and always will be my first priority. If the law allows me to buy my street with resident parking, along with the legally required amount of property owners on my street, then goddamn it I am going to buy my damn street.

The Belmont Neighborhood Association paid for resident parking on my street and about a dozen others out here five years ago. Because of that, my street is quiet, clean and relatively safer (not counting the occasional car break-in).

If you don't like the resident parking rules, then call your council member and lobby for it to be cancelled. Good luck with that when all the other neighbors who like resident parking stand up to say you are wrong.

By the way, you do not say if you rent or own your home. If you own it, you can sign petitions for or against resident parking. If you rent, your landlord/property owner, who probably signed the original petition supporting it, will cancel your signature.

Clayton Darnell
Clayton Darnell

Exactly! Welcome to the city, please enjoy the walk.

anonymous1
anonymous1

Exactly.  The Bowling Alley says it has all of its required parking.  Wilonsky is just blowing smoke again.

NoBusOnGreenville
NoBusOnGreenville

The WF lot can't be separated from the WF building - as in, you can't just turn it into a parking lot because people say they want it. Rasansky won't do it, it's his property and that is the end of the discussion, you can all go home now.

The bus idea has come up for years. DART won't do it out of OUR taxes since it would not be a benefit to the general public just the bars.

If the bars want the bus, they have to pay for it IN ADVANCE. The annual cost is about $50K a year. Not only do they not have the money, but they could never agree on how to split it - per square foot, per hours, what if you were not a bar but open at night, what if you were daytime only, etc.

RIP bus idea.

Alan
Alan

DART originally planned a Knox/Henderson rail station, but neighbors vehemently objected.  There's a station site dug out, but someone would have to come up with millions to finish it out.

TimCov
TimCov

Part of the problem is, DART generally doesn't run late enough to get the bar patrons home.

Cant Park There Either
Cant Park There Either

Yeah, that would be nice, but the neighbors decided they did not want to be your one-stop toilet, bottle dump, sex party, noisy interruption host at 3am every weekend.

http://www.residentparkingonly...

If you dont like this, move in, get all your neighbors to agree to bring back the one-stop toilet, bottle dump, sex party, noisy interruption at 3am every weekend, and then call me.

Alan
Alan

There ought to be an SUP required for Richardson's hair.

Watching
Watching

ChevyTexes is right.   Who will pay for the insurance the property owner will have to carry to protect it from car wrecks, muggings, car breakins, etc. on that parking lot?  Who reimburses the property owner for the wear and tear on the pavement in its parking lot?   Not to mention the vandalism and break-in of the building.  A vacant parking lot protects the property owner from all the bad stuff that comes from accomodating bar patrons.

Chevytexas
Chevytexas

Okay, so maybe the concept of Private Property is foreign to you (hey, what're you, some foreigner?) but I doubt it, since I don't know you:). I own a parking lot (not LG area) and I control who uses it. The fact that it's in a busy neighborhood doesn't mean I have to loan it out --and have to insure it against all sorts of drunken disasters, or just regular ones-- because my neighbors' clients want it. If you want City Hall to participate, have them build a public parking garage, preferably ten stories tall so we can really use it all the time, along Greenville Avenue. I'll even pay to use it.

Dennis Wilson
Dennis Wilson

Libertine has 22 spots by rights. And despite what they said at the hearing, their customers still get charged for them. I was in the restaurant last Friday night and when I asked for my validation and money back, the waitress said No, they won't do it.

Lem Thomas
Lem Thomas

A bus/trolley from Mockingbird serving Greenville and Henderson would alleviate the parking problems, benefit the neighborhood and the general public, and cut down on drunk driving.  Other cities have have figured out how to do this in high density, mixed use areas--it's not rocket science.

Marvin
Marvin

The DART station at Mockingbird only benefits the businesses around Mockingbird.  How do they split up the cost?  The public needs a way to get to LG, or there wouldn't be a problem.

Clayton Darnell
Clayton Darnell

I live down here, ROP has ruined this area more than people pissing in the  lawn.

J. Erik Jonsson
J. Erik Jonsson

Honestly, I'd settle for having them stop shooting each other.

Dave_little
Dave_little

Okay, so please walk me through what would have to happen for the owner of the former whole parking lot to, say, charge 5 bucks for parking there? Not being a smartass, just curious.

mingus
mingus

Who was your waitress?  It is Madison Partners, not the Libertine, that charges for parking.

LaceyB
LaceyB

Wow! I had no idea. I actually haven't been there since, maybe, November. So, you are definitely correct. I just think it would suck if people parked in every parkable inch of my neighborhood to go to the bars every weekend. Oh, wait--McKinney Ave., public parking below building--yeah, that was an awesome idea...at the time.

No Bus On Greenville
No Bus On Greenville

It's not rocket science. But like rocket science, it costs lots of money.

Cant Park Here
Cant Park Here

It would take an act of insurance, a revised zoning permit, and someone to operate it. But Rasansky (who owns Whole Foods etc) knows if the properties look like crap, he's got less chance to lease it than he does now. And if they do lease, they might want it just for their customers (how novel an idea).

Besides, Avi burned his big butt a few years ago when he exposed the parking scam on the WF property. WF corporate put the kabosh on the whole thing right after that.

http://www.barkingdogs.org/new...

ThatGuy
ThatGuy

There's a large liability question.  That's why property owners with parking lots just don't open them up after hours.  If someone gets hurt on your property, the lawyers come after you.

Micheleannes
Micheleannes

Sorry for your experience. The waitresses do not issue refunds but a validation sticker you take back to the parking lot attendant who then refunds your money. Either way she should have known this, but again, sorry. The parking attendants as stated at the hearing do get to know Libertine regulars and won't charge but until they get familiar with you they will charge first then refund.

Dennis Wilson
Dennis Wilson

The Libertine's owner and the property owner both stood up at the Council and said (summary) - if you show a parking ticket from the attendant, the waitress will issue you a refund for the parking expense.

My waitress said she was not authorized to issue a refund and there was no manager above her on duty to tell her to do it. I am not going back.

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