Adventures in Lousy Sports Stadium Logic, Starring University of North Texas and D

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Researchers say the new UNT stadium will pump $29 million a year into Denton's economy. You'll never guess where the researchers work.
The University of North Texas unveiled its shiny new football stadium last week, a $79 million complex designed to bring some juice to Denton come college football season. By big-time college sports' standards, $80 million for a new stadium isn't a ton of money. University of Michigan spent three times that just upgrading its Big House a while back. Still: It's the public's money (see back-handed correction below), dumped into a shrine for a sport UNT doesn't play particularly well. So it's no surprise that the university wanted someone to tout Mean Green Stadium's "economic impact."

It found that someone without even leaving campus. When the stories about the new stadium hit the web last week, they parroted a figure arrived at by the university's own research and economic development office: $29 million a year. Even the Business Journal repeated the figure without caveat.

As usual, the tale of the stadium as economic engine looks wildly exaggerated.

Michael Seman, a university research associate, tells Unfair Park that he and his fellow researchers used industry-standard multipliers to arrive at the $29 million figure. This was his for-instance: The University of Indiana will play in Denton next month. They'll bring 100 people with them -- players, boosters, coaches, equipment managers, parents, whoever -- not to mention whatever fans make the trip. They'll all stay in hotels, eat in restaurants, maybe even drink a little, to mourn the fact that they have to root for Indiana football.

Fans from around North Texas will show up and do the same. All that showin' up will
put money into the pockets of local business owners, and that money will trickle down into the pockets of employees who man Denton's restaurants and coffee shops, and that money will in turn bore itself even deeper into the economy, until it eventually reaches the campus drug dealer and goes off grid.

Boom! Impact, yo.

I checked with Seman, and as I suspected, the study neglected to consider what these studies always neglect to consider: That most of that money would have been in the economy anyway.

UNT was going to host Indiana (or some other terrible team) whether it built a new stadium for $80 million, rehabbed its old one for less, or kept right on playing in the apparently crumbling Fouts Field, where it's been playing in since 1952. Some middling football program's caravan would be spending a few bucks in Denton regardless, as would some number of Mean Green fans, who I imagine are mostly freshmen who have yet to discover binge drinking.

But the new stadium is nicer, the logic goes, so even more people will show up. If that were the case, the Pittsburgh Pirates, who a decade ago talked the city into bankrolling a $216 million park -- arguably the best park in the Majors -- wouldn't have spent much of the last 10 years playing to crowds smaller than the ones at a good Texas mega-church. Shiny stadiums don't draw. Good teams do. And UNT, which has averaged just over two wins the last six seasons, hasn't sniffed good in some time.

Besides, even if people were dumb enough to show up to watch football just because the seats were a little more comfortable, researchers have proved that the money they spent wouldn't have much impact on the economy. It'd just be shifted from somewhere else. Instead of dinner and a movie or concert and a cocktail, football and a post-game beer.

We spend the money we have in our pockets. More cleverly named concession stands and more brightly painted lines aren't going to make more money show up in those pockets.

It's disappointing to see the school's research arm traffic in such shoddy statistics -- and to see the Business Journal, of all publications, Xerox the propaganda and report it to the world at large. But it's no surprise. Stadiums have a way of sucking the logic out of our ear holes. How else would explain D Magazine's recent plan to move the Rangers downtown?

You read that one, right? No? I did. I have the pieces of head on my office wall to prove it. It puts Dallas taxpayers on the hook for $300 million, and assumes that moving the team from Arlington to here (and doming the stadium) would automatically fill the 20,000 seats that go empty every game, ensuring that the Rangers make back the $300 million they'd spend going halvesies with you and me on their new digs (plus the cost of breaking their lease). Because, you know no one lives near Arlington, that shitty attendance has nothing to do with 4,921 other things people have to do around here, and there's no way the Rangers will return to putridity anytime in the next 10 years, leaving D Magazine Field at Budget Slashing Park as empty or emptier than the Ballpark has been over the years.

On the bright side: D ran out of space before they mentioned all the jobs their new stadium would create, and UNT's job projections seem modest, attributable to weddings and other banquets the school hopes to host at the new complex. Because the only people better than politicians at producing thousands of fantasy jobs are the people who build new stadiums.

Correction(ish): I write that the stadium was built with the "public's money." A couple commenters below point out that the stadium wasn't built using taxpayer dollars. It will be paid for with donations, future sponsorships and student fees (among other sources). But student fees, charged to future students who will have no say in the matter, are as public as any other dollars that could have been dumped into the stadium.

Our colleges, public and private, are getting more and more expensive because of an often unnecessary arms race to build newer, shinier facilities. Timmy McPublic, UNT Class of 2020, won't pay for this stadium with his tax dollars. But he'll pay for it. Or, more likely, a bank will pay for it, and Timmy will have to pay the bank back with interest over 30 years. I wonder how that will impact the economy?


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142 comments
Untnobody
Untnobody

While they're on this mlti-million dollar spending spree they should buy some better players!

TXPCH
TXPCH

Hey Joe!!! How's the 20 million look to you?!?!? How about researching facts before you right such an erroneous article.

Max
Max

Don't forget the great Eastfield College.

Sporty Sports
Sporty Sports

Apparently a manor corporation disagrees with your assessment. Bet those guys never wore sandals to a freaking job interview. That's right, UNT will announce a stadium naming rights agreement for $20 million tomorrow (08/12/11) at 10:30 AM. That's right. In this economy. Ask Jerry Jones how easy that is to do.

So to all the ignorant people who don't understand what is going on with UNT football, you can SUCK IT!!

Kevin Kirby
Kevin Kirby

I'm sure we'll all be receiving THE IN-VA-TAAAAY-SHUUUUNNNNN to see the opening game in the new stadium soon!

Guest
Guest

I am legitimately surprised to learn that there are apparently people in this world who are proud of having gone to North Texas.

I thought UNT was one of those places you went because you couldn't get in to someplace good.

Just like where I went to college (and, as a matter of fact, UNT was one of the many colleges/universities I've attended. And I also lived in Denton for a relatively short time even when I wasn't a UNT student).

Still a commuter school
Still a commuter school

Why did they waste all this money when the university is moving the South Dallas campus in over the next few years?

At least Dallas wants UNT unlike Denton.

Titus Groan
Titus Groan

Very perceptive unpacking of UNT's "analysis," Joe.  I bet a lot of economic impact studies have precisely this same flaw in logic.  Because after all, consultants (internal or external) don't get repeat business by delivering bad news. 

Herman Snerd
Herman Snerd

More like "Adventures in Lousy Journalism, Starring Untalented Joe Blogger"!

As a UNT alum I'll admit that in recent years I haven't gone to as many games as I'd like, but as an undergrad you can bet I made most home games for Mean Green football, and proudly stormed the field and dismantled the goal posts when we won a conference title.  When I started going to UNT in the late '90s most friends were going to UT, A&M, Tech or Baylor and couldn't understand why I'd want to go to this "commuter school".  Students regularly wore hats and shirts for every other professional/college team BUT UNT on campus, and the lack of enthusiasm overall was staggering. 

Sure, people want to get behind winning teams in Dallas.  How many Rangers or Mavs fans did you see during the playoffs last year magically show-up to fill the seats and wave at any camera to the person they were screaming at into their iPhones?  Bandwagon fans are all over Texas, especially DFW.

Is UNT a great university?  Sure it is, there are a lot of great departments and programs, including music and art, but these are no longer the only departments enticing students to attend UNT.  The economy sucks (someone prove how it's moving in a posititve direction if you dare) and many new students in the area see the benefit to living in a major metropolitan area closer to friends and family, getting a job and attending a local university (I used to be one of them).

Why shouldn't those students, who by the way were in high school athletics, band, etc. be able to have a school team they can be proud of, and that can build over time to be a real contender?  How often can a crowd get together for a university marching band and cheerleader performance w/o a sport being involved?  Having a new stadium and modern facilities allows alumni and undergrads to have a common place to congregate and cheer on the team (which when winning does have a positive financial and morale-boosting effect on the larger campus).  There are still those stuck in the past, who'd love nothing more than to see a Denton campus of years gone by, a desolate city on the weekends, pot smokers hanging out on Fry Street, hacky-sack players frolicking around the library lightpole (now a much better fountain) in desperate need of a shower and non-internet companionship...but the students and the university leadership long ago decided that the local/regional stigma placed on UNT needed to come to an end.

You're seeing this on more than one front now, just look at The North Texan magazine, the NTExes, the athletic department and how other areas of the university are holding their heads up higher than before, and striving to become the best university in the region if not the state - there's absolutely nothing wrong with this, and it's a mindset that is long overdue.  A moderately priced stadium (which will remain in place for decades) that was voted on and constructed according to state and university laws/regulations is a symbol, a clear sign that UNT is growing-up and gaining ground.

Your blatantly biased article is uninformed, snarky, and nothing more than the ramblings of a psuedo-intellectual malcontent.  FACT:  Texans (a majority I'd wager) love football.  If a university chooses not to go down a similar path as UNT, that's fine, and if you as a student or parent feel the education provided there is superior to UNT (including tuition considerations) then by all means attend there and let some other student enjoy the education and experience that UNT provides.  You'll find spare alums from every university, and there is no shortage of d-bags around Denton who'd love nothing more than to complain about any change that isn't related to organic farming or the legalization of pot.

You might do well to check out the UNT Journalism department, I'm sure they could provide a few pointers on how to not stick your foot in your mouth when writing an attack article about a local university so many alumni and current students proudly attend. 

The next time you drive past the new stadium on I-35 just remember two things:  1: The game is sold out with thousands of proud, cheering, happy UNT fans in attendance, and 2: You're still a d-bag.

Hugs & Kisses,

Herman Snerd

Billie Ryan
Billie Ryan

Crappy article. The editor was obviously a high school/college wimp who is jealous of anyone who can fill out a jockstrap. Sad.

Disappointed in Denton
Disappointed in Denton

From someone who grew up in Denton, I remember the soft schedules under Coach Dickey and when those 2-3 year old I-AA teams finally got started they left ole' NTSU in the dust. Then, we were told that a "proven" coach Todd Dodge would turn it around, and finished with a 6–37 record. Now Coach Mac is going to come in and magically reverse decades of mediocrity? He "won" in the Big 12 North when Nebraska, Kansas State, and Mizzou were all in the crapper!

Now for a school that can't even get their AD to agree what the name of the program is (UNT or North Texas, Eagles or Mean Green, Scrappy or Eppy) a greek system and student senate that stuffed votes forced future students that didn't have a choice to fund a team that nobody in Denton, let alone all of North Texas cares about.

For all you Mean Green Eagles waiting to scream "but, but, but: we're a sleeping giant! We have 38k students they'll all love us someday!" There are more UNT students watching the Longhorns, Red Raiders and Aggies than the Eagles (or is it Mean Green, I can't remember which week it is). Remember when the UNT Eagles were winning Sun Belt championships? Neither does anyone else! If it isn't the Big 12 or SEC, nobody cares. 

Mjfacts
Mjfacts

The person who wrote this article is an idiot.  Do some research, dickbrain, before you drivel out your crap. 

Also, it's in Denton County, not Dallas County.  Mind your own damn business.  Having a stadium built with private funds, donations, and student approved student fees isn't the same as the boondoggles Dallas has paid for. 

Lay off the pipe before you hit the keyboard next time, ya jackwagon.

John on a Carphone
John on a Carphone

I'm curious, Joe; do you like anything about the Dallas-Fort Worth area?

Jaywalker
Jaywalker

This article proves that Jagermeister and cocaine shouldn't be mixed.

george
george

So, let me get this straight:  NTSU is playing football now?

Firefightnrick
Firefightnrick

What are you, 12?! So which is it, the stadium was built with taxpayer money or donations anD fees? Is the reason NOT to build a stadium because the team isnt winning and no one will show, or because since the Rangers are winning and currently leading their division and are at the top of the Majors in attendance it still isn't good economical sense because the return on investment isn't where you think it should be?

The construction of Mean Green stadium employed hundreds of Texans the past 18 months and will employee even more on game days with increased stadium staff and vendors, and this will occur for many events, not just door football games throughout the year.

Poorly researched and written.

Fletch
Fletch

Glitzy new stadium...same lousy football.  I will admit that Fouts Field was quite a dump.  I'd say its outward appearance matched the caliber of football played in it most of the time.  I've been in it a number of times over the past decade or so and I'd say the most respectable crowds were generally the result of an intriguing high school playoff matchup.  I think building this stadium, regardless of how the funds were or were not procured, is basically the equivalent of putting the cart before the horse.  Perhaps it will help with recruiting, but winning records and a respected program also aid recruiting and UNT hasn't sniffed anything remotely resembling success in several years.  And even when you go back to the early-mid part of the last decade when they went to bowl games or won Sun Belt titles, they usually did so with records that were scarcely better than .500.

As a UNT alum, I will say that there are many things that the school does well.  Unfortunately, football just isn't one of them.  I'd like to see them turn things around, but until that day comes, they're just trying to cover a lack of substance with flash.

Proud UNT Alum
Proud UNT Alum

Your pen name serves you well!  I went to NTSU and I am proud of it.  It was where I wanted to go to school and I really enjoyed my time in Denton.

Forney Green
Forney Green

Interesting comment, because by that logic, anyone notattending Harvard or Yale can't be proud of their college/university :-) Forany school in Texas, there is a place that is better and more difficult to beaccepted. I know folks that are very proud of SFA, Sam Houston, Texas State,etc - I certainly don't begrudge them of their pride. And if they want to spendtheir money supporting athletics at those universities, then that is their prerogative– leave them alone.

As for the original article, it meanders so much that Ican’t really tell what point is trying to be made.  Possibly the author is indicting anyuniversity that spends money on athletics since every team at every school willhave some good years and bad years.  UTfootball had a bad year in 2010 – but I don’t think that is a reason for theirschool or alumni to stop supporting the program.

I hope everyone also realizes that Mean Green Stadium wasnot purchased by tax dollars – it was purchased as most every universityathletic facility across the nation – a combination of donations, bonds, andstudent fees.

John on a Carphone
John on a Carphone

You don't have to go to Harvard to be proud of where you went to college. 

Steven Glickman
Steven Glickman

Why are you so concerned with little ole' UNT, I mean they aren't int he Big12 or SEC so nobody cares right?  Then why are you so concerned?  Go watch those faggy boy cheerleaders of yours and leave us alone.

CheeryBitch
CheeryBitch

You pointed out something that has always bothered me about UNT students; the lack of school spirit. The ratio of UNT spirit wear to other college/university spirit wear was easily 1:20. Such a disappointment.

Coach_DanR
Coach_DanR

@Disappointed in Denton we moved up conferences, Got the heart of Dallas bowl bid, an 8 win season so far.... looks like the UNT (which is just an acronym idiot) is on the up and up

Sporty sports
Sporty sports

Typical Denton resident. Probably live in the Denia neighborhood, right? I'd bet that if you lived in Fort Worth 12 years ago, you would have said the same thing about TCU. So sad that Denton residents would rather make fun of one of their main economic engines instead of supporting it.

I would guess you probably went to SFA or Sam Houston, but are a die hard UT fan, right? Even though the only time you ever stepped foot on the UT campus was on a tour.

Jaywalker
Jaywalker

NTSU hasn't played football since 1987.  Try to keep up grandpa.

Coach_DanR
Coach_DanR

@Fletch You build a winning program by committing to a winning program! I'm sure you were a fairy most of your life and didn't get much exposure to football, but I grew up in it and know a thing or to. Committing to winning means building a sustainable program through facilities (recruitment), coaching (recruitment), scholarships (recruitment), all the hopes to build a deep enough roster that you can win YOY. 

Derrick Murray
Derrick Murray

"Glitzy new stadium...same lousy football."

A bit early for that kind of judgement, isn't it?  Give them a few seasons in the stadium under a new coaching staff.

Not as Disgusting as it seems
Not as Disgusting as it seems

Fletch....please come to the home opener on Sept 10th against Houston.  I can promise that you won't regret it.

Check Facts
Check Facts

Obviously you haven't been going to Fouts for North Texas Football. Otherwise your comment about intriguing high school playoff match-ups wouldn't have been made.

Sporty sports
Sporty sports

 should learn a few things about the football program. The fact that UNT finally committed to winning, hiring a proven head college football coach who turned around the program at Iowa St, taking them to 5 straight bowls (yes, Iowa St.). Perhaps you should know that UNT made a financial commitment to this staff (which includes an OC that held the same position at USF during their run to a #2 ranking and a DC that held the same position for Kansas during the Mangino bowl years), a financial committment that makes the head coach the highest paid in the Sun Belt. Football will be better. This year.

Learn about what is going on at your alma mater. It is really sad to see uninformed alumni bashing their alma mater.

Be a part of the solution, not the problem.

Come to a game. Bring the family.

Guest
Guest

There's a BIG gap between a school with admission requirements that are just a tick above "breathing" and Harvard with many, many schools in between.

I'm not saying UNT is a bad school. If anything, UNT and many schools like it are tremendous bargains for students who more often than not, get as good an education as they would get just about anywhere else. So yeah, you get through and graduate, I'll join you in being proud of that accomplishment. And I liked living in Denton.

But, for most of the university's programs, getting in simply means you graduated high school or managed a C average at a community college. There's little accomplishment in getting there, so being proud of being able to get there seems, to me, misplaced.

I worked and put myself through school, raising kids along the way. It was sometimes a struggle to get through. But getting in to the various schools I've been to required nothing more than filling out an application and sending some transcripts. There was no pride in being there. There was pride in not being there anymore (when I graduated that is).

97and03
97and03

That, fortunately, really has changed in the last 10 years.

Disappointed in Denton
Disappointed in Denton

Denia resident? No. I graduated from Texas A&M and now a football season ticket holder for the past 16 years. I've been to dozens of college towns throughout the state, and unlike college towns like Lubbock or College Station, Denton is just a town with a college.

I moved back to my hometown last year and found that nothing has changed. Another Wal-Mart here and new restaurant on The Square there, but the city's attitude hasn't. The Fry Street rats still run around off campus, and the "team for the metroplex" still can't draw fans south of Lake Lewisville.

My brother spent his freshman year at UNT until he transferred to Texas Tech. He felt he shouldn't have to pay tuition fees he never voted on for a football team he doesn't want to watch lose. He's not as big a sports fan as I am, but I understand why he didn't want to spend $1,000s on a football team he could care less about.

If a new stadium is really going to help recruiting, won't UNT now be on par with FAU, FIU, SMU and UCF? No! you're just playing catch up with the Big 12, SEC, and PAC-12. Look at UCF and their new facility. If UCF is a model for UNT, they ended the season at only #21. What, no invitation to the Big East? But, but, but, they did so good! Doesn't matter, just another commuter school in a metro without fans.

Sporty sports, remember Fort Worth's mayor declared TCU day, and encouraged the city to wear purple and even the skyline when purple for the Horned Frogs? Do you know why that doesn't happen in little ole' Denton? Residents are embarrassed about UNT. It's still a commuter school no matter how many dorms have been built in the last decade, and if a new shiny stadium is suppose to bring out the big $ donors and alumni back to Denton on Saturdays, why hasn't there been a sellout for any game besides the opener? Your alumni don't care about UNT and would rather support a school that isn't an embarrassment.

Not as Disgusting as it seems
Not as Disgusting as it seems

More like he took one class at Devry....wasn't "serious about success".....and decided to withdraw from all of his classes (Yes...even Turn the Wrench Left 101).  

It was at that point where he decided that inheriting his mother's trailer and living out his days in scorn of all those around him who dared to dream.  The good news is that once the Denton Walmart was opened he too was able to purchase the t-shirt of either UT, OU or A&M thus solidifying his opportunity to pick his "favorite team" at the discounted and rolled back price of only $9.99 per tee.  

Disappointed in Denton
Disappointed in Denton

If you want to watch another UNT loss to BCS buster Houston you won't regret it.

If you want to really support your alma mater, go to a recital or band performance and support the students that will actually become something they're doing in college. Those are the kids that need your support. Football will always get $ thrown at it even when it can't win 10 games over 4 seasons.

John
John

Having pride in the university you attended does not necessarily equate to gloating over others who weren't as fortunate to go where you did.  You have pride in the university you attended because it shaped your future and you as a person.  It was a huge part of your life, and always will be part of your life and part of you.  People take pride in the high schools they attended, even if they did not attend Highland Park or an exclusive private school.  And they should.  Some people simply are not interested in sports, and that's fine.  But something is deficient in the character and self-esteem of one who cannot take pride in the university he attended.

97and03
97and03

UNT's admissions standards are equal to or higher than many "big" schools in the major conference. I am specifically referring to freshman admissions, as transfer students are evaluated differently.

Just graduating high school does not gain you admission to UNT. Now back when I was researching colleges 20 years ago, it did get you into Nebraska! Now you just have to be in the top half of your graduating class or hit a 20 ACT score for admission. That is for a Big 10 school. Currently, students in the top 50% (2nd quarter ranking) of their graduating classes only need a 760 SAT to get into Ole Miss in the SEC. UNT requires a 1050 for the same student. Who is inferior?

Pride in UNT? Yes. I have 2 degrees from UNT and they have served me quite well. I have season tickets and even managed to make 2 games in Denton last year while serving overseas as a diplomat in the State Department.

Sporty sports
Sporty sports

The most amazing thing is you have written 4 or so posts in response to an article about a college stadium to which you have no connection and claim doesn't matter. I'm an alum and supporter. maybe we should examine why exactly you care, because this doesn't involve any of your tax dollars.

If it doesn't matter, why the interest? Worried about losing a few recruits? Yep, not all inner city football players look at lilly white, redneck-filled A@M as the place for them. Many will feel comfortable at a very diverse UNT.

And then there is A@M's free fall from the ranks of top teir college football program. Whenever TTech is kicking your ass in recruiting on a consistent basis, you got problems.

Sporty sports
Sporty sports

Wow. This is what an A@M education gets you? You seriously should demand a refund. First, there are no sell outs, because tickets don't go on sale until August 15th. They do teach reading at your crappy university, don't they?

Second, you seem to imply that a football program cannot be successful unless they are in the "club", one of the big 6 conferences. Well, I guess your right, if you measure success in a typical Big Six conference fan D-Bag way.

There are many success stories out there that I'm sure you no nothing about (E. Carolina being a prime example). But, in your myopic world, if you ain't big 6, you ain't sh!+. Maybe someday A@M will be good enough to face TCU or Boise in a bowl. Y haven't been in the last 10 years. If rumors are true, ou guys are headed to the bottom 3rd of the SEC.

What I have that you will never have. I can go to a donor event and have a 10 minute conversation with the head football coach and athletic director. I can purchase club level seats without mortgaging my home. I can go to the football banquet, bring a ball, and get the entire team to autograph it for free. How much did you pay for your autographed football, you know, the one you got back when A@M was relevant in the BCS world...1990?    

Not as Disgusting As It Seems
Not as Disgusting As It Seems

So now it makes a bit more sense about why you are butt-hurt about this stadium development.  The only thing that impedes on Denton's progress are the extreme conservative types that do not wish to see Denton progress one bit.  If you haven't noticed change in Denton since you left then you are blind.  It was the City Council that delayed the rebuilding of Fry St. 

As far as "catching up with FAU and FIU" I now know that you don't know shit.  Neither of those two schools have any of the capacity of capability to achieve what UNT both has and will.  The only reason you mentioned FIU was because they almost kicked A&M's ass last year in football (and they still went 6 & 6 so what does that tell ya) and you mentioned FAU because that is the twin sister of FIU.  Both schools have far less in attendance at there games....even during times of winning.  

Tell your brother that I hope he caught TTU basketball getting beat by UNT last year in Denton.  Also our football programs are in a 4-4 series don't pretend like Lubbock is the destination of all sports fans in DFW.  Screw him....we didn't need his money anyway if he prefers to go sit in a dustbowl for 4 yrs.  I have been there 3 times and can't wait to get out.  Matter of fact...TTU is where the largest amount of our transfers come from.  As far as spending "$1,000s" of dollars on a stadium (just your brother???) ....again....you are full of shit.  

SMU had 23k in attendance last year with a true record of around 19k (TCU bolstered the numbers when the formed a Purple Out in Ford Stadium).  It would not take much to surpass them in the capacity to engage your local Alum...because two consecutive bowl games (and one in their own house) hasn't done squat.  There basketball games average thousands less than UNT.  

I know you don't know anything about UNT and or what is occurring there.....and that I can accept.  What I will not accept is some out of place Aggie rolling through with opinions about stuff he doesn't know about.  See that is the problem with Aggies in the eyes of most that come across them.  They want to seem intelligent and informed but truly they wasted their time and came out of one of the largest schools in Texas not one iota smarter than when the started school.  

Steven Glickman
Steven Glickman

I guess UT is a commuter school too, since a higher percentage of first and second year students live on campus at UNT than at UT....I would imagine Fort Worth declared TCU day because they won something.  It isn't like they made TCU day when they were losing year after year to SMU when SMU was under the death penalty.  Sounds like somebody is bitter about that big burnt orange shadow obliterating his team's recognition. 

Jaywalker
Jaywalker

Only an Aggie would think there's still a NTSU.

Fightin' Aggie
Fightin' Aggie

Only a NTSU dropout would mistake Texas A&M for Devry.

Coach_DanR
Coach_DanR

@Disappointed in Denton 8 wins this season A HOLE, about to be 9 after the heart of dallas bowl. Lance Dunbar to the Dallas cowboys last year.... 4 NFL draft prospects this year! I just want to make sure that you see how the present compares to your F'ing stupid comments you made 2 years ago. hippie

Sporty sports
Sporty sports

So only support certain programs at a university, right? Maybe just the ones that YOU like, right? Here's an idea, trying putting your prejudices aside and support all students? What a concept? Music grads supporting athletics. Fomer football players (like current NFLer Patrick Cobbs and Brian Waters) supporting the music department. Both supporting the business department.

But, I guess this just doesn't fit with your narrow minded view of the world.

KJ
KJ

All the people I know who participated what you call "recitals" at UNT are bank tellers now. Or asking me to borrow money.....

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