Is Hating Teachers the Right Thing to Do?

• Totally agree. The same system is set up in Utah, Arizona, California and Nevada. I also agree with your comment about private school teachers, I applied for a private school position at an awesome school but they wanted a masters degree. The pay for that degree was twice what public school teachers make though. There was another school however that only required a high school diploma. Obviously the pay was less. I am happy where I am at but I still debate on jumping into the private sector. More pay (I now have that illusive masters) a lot more respect and I won't have to worry about state tests or over crowded classrooms.

• So now the teachers in your world are responsible for the books that the school uses and the facilities that the school has. Hate to break it to you pal, but that would be the fault of the district not the teachers. You have done a great job, however, of illustrating why public school teachers are set up to fail. So, thanks for that.

• When I have my students tell me that their dad pays my salary so I am their servant, I want to cry. I love teaching. I know I have made a difference in the lives of many of my students and I have the card and letter from parents and students to prove it. Your assumption is not only hateful, but it is uneducated. Have you actually looked up your claims? Get on your local school districts website and see how much they make then compare that with accredited private schools that hire teachers with college degrees. You may be sir rises to find that they actually pay better and have better benefits. The private school teachers that are constantly being compared to public school teachers are often individuals with no degreeandno experience. I know this because I was offered a job by one as a junior in college and my sister in law who failed out of college now teaches at one in Arizona. If you are going to compare public and private schools, compare apples to apples. It's like me complaining that the accountant makes more than the guy in the mail room.

• You need a hug to wash that displaced anger away. Nice use of trying to use my words against me-a little weak, but I'll give it to you. If anything, I will consider what you said, as I can see where what I wrote would cause you to take issue.

• "I think that if anyone 3700 Ross Ave., or elsewhere, makes six figures, there should be a salary cut, and the extra monies from these six figs should be distributed to the shortfall in the budget. It's easier to understand a hardship when you have to live it yourself" Everyone who complains that cuts must be made in a budget somewhere, notice how they always have a lot of ideas on what cuts to make, but none of those cuts are for programs they themselves use or take advantage of. I don't want to hear what you think everyone else should have to live without, tell me what YOU are willing to give up.

• I don't know that I agree with your whole argument but that last paragraph is spot on brilliant.

• "Glorified baby sitters". Hmmmm. I remember a time, when, if you acted up in class the teacher called your parents, and you weren't allowed back in class until you could behave appropriately.-And if that meant your mom or dad had to take off work to deal with their unruly child, then so be it. -Don't get me wrong; today is very much different than yesterday; times have indeed changed. I think all sides of things have spiraled into a shit tornado(pardon my expression), and it's sad. The children are the pawns. They are the ones who suffer because no one cares anymore. Yes, again, on all sides. Nice. I think that if anyone 3700 Ross Ave., or elsewhere, makes six figures, there should be a salary cut, and the extra monies from these six figs should be distributed to the shortfall in the budget. It's easier to understand a hardship when you have to live it yourself. And I say this, knowing I have barely scratched the surface, nor can comprehend the full understanding of this fine mess; nothing short of tragic.

• LOL. you slay me. Seriously. I gotta hand it to you. You, like other extremists before you, have an uncanny ability to justify your own behavior while demonizing the exact same behavior in others. It truly is a wonder to behold the extent of the intellectual gymnastics partisans can perform without being able to recognize themselves performing it. Rock on, dude! OK, OK. Democrats always wrong, Republicans always right! Hehe.

• Right. Republicans obstruct the will of the people by following the rules. Got it. And yeah, since Thoreau <i>literally</i> wrote the book on it (and, yes, I am literally using literally correctly), I think that you have to start there. Please note that Ghandi and MLK did the same thing. I don't recall reading anything about Ghandi's great run-away to Sri Lanka, or MLK's courageous sit in at the NAACP headquarters.

• LOL. Thoreau? It isn't civil disobedience unless its done strictly according to Thoreau? Dude, that's a hoot! And yeah, apparently you conveniently (and not surprisingly) glossed completely over all mention of filibusters. Because that's how Republicans obstruct the will of the people, and Republicans are justified.

• Getting arrested makes it the real, actual kind. Read some Thoreau, starting with, say, <i>Civil Disobedience</i>. <i>The prop­er place to-day, the only place which Mas­sa­chu­setts has pro­vided for her freer and less de­spond­ing spirits, is in her pris­ons, to be put out and locked out of the State by her own act, as they have al­ready put them­selves out by their prin­ci­ples. It is there that the fu­gi­tive slave, and the Mex­ican pris­oner on pa­role, and the In­dian come to plead the wrongs of his race, should find them; on that sep­a­rate, but more free and hon­or­able ground, where the State places those who are not with her but against her, — the only house in a slave-state in which a free man can abide with honor. If any think that their in­flu­ence would be lost there, and their voices no longer af­flict the ear of the State, that they would not be as an en­emy within its walls, they do not know by how much truth is stronger than er­ror, nor how much more el­o­quently and ef­fec­tively he can combat in­jus­tice who has ex­pe­ri­enced a lit­tle in his own per­son. Cast your whole vote, not a strip of pa­per merely, but your whole in­flu­ence. </i> (As near as I can tell with the rest of your rambling, the answer to my "can you point me to one" is 'no'.) Elections have consequences. The People of WI put the Senators in that they did for a <i>reason</i>. By fleeing their duty under the WI constitution, they are making an <b>undemocratic</b> stand, defying the will of the voters expressly shown in November.

• Oh, I see. Getting arrested makes it a different kind of disobedience, the patriotic kind. Preventing someone from abusing their authority through political gamesmanship is only valiant if a press conference is held. And yes, the Republicans have been doing exactly that, through different means, for the past several years. There is no difference between staying out of town so a vote can't be held, and threatening filibusters on every single vote for every single issue so votes can't be held. But of course, I'm sure you champion the ridiculous, profuse use of the Republican filibuster threat. Cuz Republicans always have everyone's best interests at heart, no doubt, and Democrats are just crooked and sleazy. Am I close?

• I think that you misunderstand the principles of civil disobedience. If the WI Senators went to the border, and held a press conference that said, "what you are doing is immoral, and to show it, I am going to wait here until I am arrested," then that's civil disobedience. What these guys are doing is simply disobedience. (And pretty craven disobedience, at that. I can recall two instances where Dems have pulled this BS, and none where Republicans have. Can you point me to one?)

• "Not upset that the unionized teachers are taking invalid/false "sick days" to camp at the capitol, are we? Or, that liberal DEMOCRATS' best way to deal with a situation is to FLEE the state like WUSSIES rather than vote per their JOB requirements?" The US has a long history of peaceful civil disobedience as a way of opposing bullshit being imposed on us by those who try to abuse their authority. When liberals do it, they're "wussies", when conservatives do it, they're "patriots".

• Good article. I'm not a conservative, but I will tell you this---I know PLENTY of conservatives who think teachers are great. I think some of the more vocal people are anomalies...not the mainstream wing of the party. People need to be more polite and respect one another.

• If it was about adjusting the budget, this would have been over after the union agreed to the cuts he said he needed to make. Obviously this is about union busting. And obviously, the majority of people of WI don't feel like that's what they were voting for (since the state is divided over the issue). Now if you mean that, before they voted for a Republican governor, the people of WI should have considered that he might go off half-cocked and start pandering to the extreme right, then, yeah, maybe. I'm sure they've learned that lesson now.

• 1. Ursuline* 2. Just as it's not fair to define all conservatives by the ones who are bashing and degrading teachers, it's not fair to say all children that attended private schools are "smart-asses, selfish, and self-serving jerks." Some may be, but not all. I'm not.

• The Union agreed to the fiscal cuts demanded of the Governor. When you think about it, it makes it easier to have a Union to negotiate with, rather than a myriad of agreements that various regulations and stipulations. Unions aren't the necessary enemy, yet they are being made so to serve a larger agenda. Consider the words of Chris Christie in NJ, he WANTS to have the opportunity to collectively bargain.

• The "public sector" is "government employment." Non government jobs are considered the "private sector."

• So, there aren't occasional random idiots in a large crowd of protesters? I love how liberals paint the picture that "conservatives" "hate teachers" and conveniently report that since some moron made-up an insulting and uninformed sign he MUST representative ALL conservatives and Tea Party members. The issue in Wisconsin is not about teachers, it's about the union system and a govenor trying to do the right thing and adjust the budget. Cuts will happen, I challenge anyone else to try and be fiscally responsible and have it NOT negatively impact those union members. Conservatives want good teachers, want better education and realize that a unionized system is not necessarily finanically feasible. Not one word of the article above has any purpose other than to stir the pot and rally liberally-minded folks to get all up-in-arms towards "conservatives" on the broad generalization that the occasional fool in a crowd MUST somehow be representative of MILLIONS of Americans who AGREE with what the govenor of Wisconsin is doing. We get it, the poor teachers. Want them all to get paid better in Wisc. and keep their jobs while the state taxes and deficit climb so high generations from now it'll be even more horrible than it is today? Or, do you TEACH children by EXAMPLE that you have to live within your means (government of individual) and not pass the consequences off to future generations? Grow-up, Schutze. You don't think conservatives worry about the rabid, torch-wielding radical left marching down their streets telling them they have to sit there and pay for others' lifestyles? People disagree, and some of those protesters are disgusting, but they ARE NOT representative of all conservatives. Not upset that the unionized teachers are taking invalid/false "sick days" to camp at the capitol, are we? Or, that liberal DEMOCRATS' best way to deal with a situation is to FLEE the state like WUSSIES rather than vote per their JOB requirements? Or maybe, not mad that the liberal left didn't GET THE VOTE OUT in November? Hmm, maybe this wouldn't be happening in Wisc. and other states unless a MAJORITY of CITIZENS voted AGAINST this exact type of government policy and ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES to act accordingly while in office. I loved a lot of my teachers, but this isn't about whether people like them or not, and you know that. Nice article, BIG picture up top, embedded photo of The Daily Show (a comedy program and not true source for journalism) and just a few personal opinions. Solid.

• @ An Analogy Lonestar cards: taxes pay in, benefits go out to qualified people. Then we need to for kids to Test into school . Not that hard and the few millions spent to test in would eliminate Billions in funding for Head Start and Prenatal Pre "K" A Fish camp for the 5 year old. Here are A few of the tests Some involve the parents for obvious reasons. (1) Showing up on time. With full tummy. (2)Knowing how to behave inside a structure. a Indoor voice. b.Walking slow. c. Walking in a strait line. Advancing to Following a "LINE LEADER" Honors course LEADING THE LINE I have more but I don't want to share here As I am planning for a Lucrative consultant contract with the DISD.

• If it were across the board where parental consent was required to be exempted from attendance, the entire situation would change. This would especially affect elementary schools where middle schools and high schools would probably be essentially unaffected--just as is the these students aren't bussed off to day care. But those elementary kids are cute, and impressionable--getting voluntary parental help should lighten this staffing burden. This is where education is most important and effective. Extra expenditures here would likely show great benefits and be off-set by savings in our day care subsidies to private firms who use other facilities to house these people. Further, this would be a good time slot to engage in those perfunctory, extra-curricular tasks that currently interfere with class time. More medical prevention activities should be done in these hours. We could more effectively utilize medical wagons and other activities that the schools are covertly extending to just a needy, known few. This could off-set some medical expenses, that are covered by private and public coffers today. Not to mention science oriented wagons, and other activities. If done on a national basis, corporations would be eager to sponsor these mobile exhibits and that good be well directed. Sometimes our petty thinking becomes quite costly.

• School districts do this already. Many offer after school programs and tutoring. My aunt was teaching TAKS tutoring at from 4 to 8 pm on a Saturday afternoon. The high school I taught at in Dallas offered all sorts of after school tutoring, particularly for students who hadn't passed the TAKS. It was nearly impossible to get students to stay.

• Lonestar cards: taxes pay in, benefits go out to qualified people. Education cards: taxes go in, every child gets a card and gets to choose their school, private or not. No more middlemen at the school board misspending millions upon millions of dollars.

• Absolutely. Show me a kid whose parents are serious about and involved with the kid's education, and I'll show you a successful student. Unfortunately, in this country its practically taboo to suggest to someone that they're not raising their kids correctly, even when they clearly aren't.

• Wealth redistribution is always wrong. Unless it involves firing teachers so we can give tax cuts to the wealthy.

• to be fair they hated Clinton and they really hated Carter, who might be the best President we've had. He cut more gov't jobs, than any. Was and governed like a true Christian--that is to say, he rejected war; and the Warmongers who populate both parties HATED that. Obama's proved to be a warmonger too, like Clinton, so they spare him our most vitriolic wrath. And, Sadly, Obama has distinguished himself in one pernicious category, he's been even more aggressive in pursuing whistle-blowers than even Bush, who looks freewheeling in comparison.

• you're making an appeal for vouchers. I'm not sure private schools are interested in picking up the slack. Further, schools would likely lose some autonomy in regards to admissions. But, I like food stamps/Lone Star cards, those have minimal graft and don't pervert the market. Another issue would be to compare private school's tuition to the per student expenditure. I'm pretty sure private schools are operating at a far higher cost. So, you analogy is likely an inapt one. I could be persuaded to consider vouchers, but, for it to work, we'd have to double educational expenditures. That sounds like another "American Medical System," we'd likely have the most advanced educational system in the world, only it would cost twice what the rest of the world spends/student.

• No Joshua, we are sick of being middle class victims of a class war. It's not the poor powerless and brown people that are ruining this country, it's the banksters and their Congressional lackeys

• We would not stand for govt groceries ******* Lonestar cards *******or govt cars*****DART THE T,********** but we allow a few crooks at the top to get rich off of us under the guise of govt schools. The Crooks are everywhere .

• It has nothing to do with disagreeing, nimrod. It has to do with idiotic comments with absolutely no thought behind them- that people's opinions about the value of teaching profession is based on the unions voting Democrat and Democrats "needing them to win elections". Get real. Don't rattle off some stupidity that people's opinions about the teaching profession aren't authentic and have nothing to do with teaching and the values they believe in, but instead are all about future elections and lapdogs and whatever other garbage you heard on Limbaugh that morning. The reaon I know you get that crap from Limbaugh/Beck is because normal people don't think that way. The only person who would ever come up with such a silly idea is someone who gets paid to entertain people with stupid ideas like that, in which everything can be boiled down to one political conspiracy or another. If you have a real disagreement to express, express it. But dismissing everyone's opinions out of hand because they are secretly concerned that they might lose a political "lapdog" (yeah, there's a real intellectual triumph, Einstein), well, that's just retarded. Disagree all you want. But disagree honestly. Use youre friggin brain, if you still remember how.

• Yeah but FOX News, the National Review, and Weekly Standard do, and they all hate public education too.

• Sorry, the facts are private schools don't do any better that public schools when adjusted for income levels. It's a fact you can look it up. Plus, it's documented that the Texas Charter Schools have done a worse job than public schools at educating kids. But why let the facts get in the way of a good FOX News Limbaugh talking points. So are you home-schooled or private academy?

• Why would anyone think people who recite every discredited racist stereo-types about Mexican immigrants are racists? Yeah, I bet some of their best friends, or at least yard men, are Mexicans. Here's a tip you're called a racist because you say racist things.

• "I can understand why some single working parents can't pull it off. " Yes, I understand that there are many hard working single parents out there doing the best they can, but there are also too many parents (even those still married and not poor) that simply don't give a shit and let their kids run wild. Of course, we need to consider all factors on a case-by-case basis, but just as everyone expects more from school districts and the police, we do need more parent accountability. I also think we need to provide incentives for people to marry and stay married, but I do think that school hours should be extended during the day to keep kids out of trouble and away from negative outside influences, such as gangs and drug use.

• That would still be more intellectually rigorous (and accurate) than merely parroting Limbaugh/Beck and passing everything off as some liberal conspiracy.

• When Obama was elected,President of USA,people hated him. The win,hated the Democrats,hated he's mixed,hated his mother was white,hate he's black,hated his education,hate he has real birth certificate,hate he's never been to jail.People did not want to seem racist, many hate him for different reasons,liberal,young. It's was much better to organize a grassroots group ,who, Hate everything.The birth,sorta like RoseMary's baby, Conservative group; Tea Party ,is her name.Mixed income group of people, energized by their passionate Hate of everything. Dick Army and Carl Rowe organized this group ,all over America,to be ready to protest and hate at a moment notice in any part of US,were ,needed.Health Care reform was first,now Republican Party has lost control of Group,so they spend time on next issue to Hate. Open Season on Hate.Only hate can mobilize people that quick 24/7.

• Imagine that next week, the US govt decided that all citizens would now pay $600 a month to Grocery Store A. In exchange, every person would get a couple of bags of groceries from their assigned store. If it is a filthy store or staffed with rude employees who never can explain why a carton of a dozen eggs only comes with 11, well, you should move somewhere with better store. Unless you're poor. Then you're probably screwed. But you should have thought about that before you "chose" your home. And don't whine to me about how expensive it is to move or how properties assigned to the good stores are very expensive. People would not shop for their groceries; their groceries would be chosen for them and handed to them once a month. Individual food preferences could not be considered. The rich, of course, would pay their $600, but they would also be able to pay the extra cost to shop at other grocery stores with better prices or better produce or more variety. Those grocery stores bend over backward to provide excellent service and quality food. Now tell me how public ed in this country is any differrent. No matter how crappy, wasteful, corrupt, or ineffective DISD is, we are forced to keep giving it our money. By our own elected officials. We would not stand for govt groceries or govt cars, but we allow a few crooks at the top to get rich off of us under the guise of govt schools. Only the rich can escape. How American is that?

• I don't buy the whole, "all caps is tantamount to shouting" line, and I enjoy using All Caps to emphasize the occasional WORD, or PHRASE. But frankly, all caps makes for a difficult to read font choice. If you write everything in all caps it gets hard to read. To answer your point, I think this is all fair play, and the public gets to decide. Evidently, the polls suggest the protesters are more popularly supported than your position. So, I can understand your point. I can call you a tool because I know the source of your information, though I don't think you can do what I can do. These arguments come from an orchestrated campaign led by the Koch brothers, who've founded the Kato Institute, Heritage Foundation and other think tanks that regularly produce dubious studies. I know you've never heard these studies are vulnerable to scrutiny, nor are you treated to fair critiques.

• There will always be simple minded people who find a reason to hate. So sad.

• I'm The Dude, so that's what you call me. You know, that or ah his Dudeness, or uh Duder or uh El Duderino if you're not into that whole brevity thing.

• While you are Correct about Texas being a right to work state. Texas Teachers are being painted by the same broad brush. An untended consequence Don't fool your self. The larger focus of the ruckus is ridding the Nation of Government Schools . A fringe movement to most it is a very real threat to the PUBLIC education system as a whole . Top to Bottom.

• Why are you yelling? I'm only two feet away.

• "Let's be honest, people here are defending teachers because the teachers unions are Democrat lapdogs and Dems need them to win elections." If we're being TOTALLY honest, that's an awfully retarded analysis

• Prove your point? No more than one racist county commissioner and his hand full of supports prove that all black people are racist. You're pro-union...I get it. I would suggest that the haters are a minority of both sides of the issue.

• the reason these pensions are in trouble is that Wall St. profligacy caused these funds' shortfalls. This is related to compensation packages that are so lucrative they are hard to up-hold. In college we used to love to plot schemes or heists where we would have to take our booty and never return. But never did we imagine a figure so large as some of these people are paid. They can earn in a year, by fudging a form or two, enough to retire on. But you can see no benefit on raising taxes on these people? The austerity for the economic meltdown must be borne by the meek, rather than the wealthy whom we bailed out and made whole. Your side loves to bitch about double taxation, but you get double dips and we bear the burden. What's worse, you're probably too poor to benefit from these benes. Did you know Obama RAISED taxes on 1/3 of tax payers? The bottom 1/3 of income earners got a tax hike, everyone else a tax cut, the upper tier a pretty substantial cut.

• I'm married to a Texas school teacher. That rabble in Wisconsin who lied about medical leave, violated their "sacred union contracts" and abandoned their students for political purposes bear no resemblance to Texas teachers. Teachers in Texas are not the problem.

• Why don't we actually extend school hours, and hire people to tutor and baby sit kids in the afternoons at schools. This would provide many jobs that would help the economy while reinforcing the lessons of the day. Again, I'm all for this being voluntary, but the harried parents that work all day could use the help. It's tough to come home, cook dinner and then tutor your kid while cleaning up from dinner, and the day. I can understand why some single working parents can't pull it off. Considering the subsidies and the private money that goes to day cares, it seems this money could be better redirected into the schools where the kids already are. The teachers could perhaps be asked to keep an hour or half hour after the usual day, any thing else would be compensated. Those who are in the day care industry now could certainly transition into these jobs, but certainly it would help kids.

• collective bargaining doesn't mean that it should be impossible to fire a teacher. It simply gives the Teachers a collective voice. Collective bargaining allows the teachers to have input in the process. I agree that there may well be needed reforms, but those will be more effective and we'll have better buy in working WITH teachers. Again, I don't see the same criticism on lobbying by corporations with business with the gov't, how's that any different? Again, you're picking at the relative pennies we give to many people, while safeguarding their sweetheart deals, squared away at fund-raisers and fancy lunches the teachers never get. Tell me who gets their phone calls answered? Those people are the ones that are funding your news sources, your opinion makers, and the "experts" who populate the "think tanks" they run. Sadly, I don't hear the Democrats raising credible alternatives, but frankly, you're ceding the entire debate to them.

• I'm a public school teacher, and I do teach. I work at least 9 hours a day then I spend several hours a week at home grading and recording grades since those are things we are expected to do on our own time. I would say I spend close to 50 hours a week on the job. I work my tail off to try to teach every child in my room the very best that I can. I am also held accountable! I am not expected to spend the summer planning because I do not get paid for those days. I get paid for the 187 days I work a year and they divide it up through 12 equal months. How much time do you spend walking around public school classrooms observing all these teachers not teaching?

• I read the article. No where does it mention anyone spitting in that girl's face. He may have meant it metaphorically, but that isn't clear from his writing and I don't think he wanted it to be. He doesn't even discuss the issue at hand. If you're against collective bargaining because you think teachers should be retained based on their performance and not their tenure, you "hate teachers." Re-framing an argument to give it an emotional, indefensible spin is a cheap tactic. As is impugning an entire group of people because they don't agree with you. And he thinks he has some moral high ground?

• You know why public schools suck, it's because the parents suck. These asshole parents are the same one's badmouthing teachers and holding up those vulgar signs: "You are glorified babysitters who leave school at 3:30 pm. You deserve minimum wage." We hold teachers and schools accountable enough with all sorts of testing, it's now time for parents to be held accountable. It's the parents that are in most serious need of reeducation. If parents were fined and required to take parenting courses when students acted up in class, our public school system would be very different right now. This would also be an excellent way of raising revenue for school districts while empowering teachers, increasing classroom discipline, thus, improving the overall learning environment.

• Cops spend 1.8 to 2.7 million hours each year arresting Jeffrey Lebowski types, so you will just have to wait a little longer on that 911 call.

• Then why all the hoohaw about money and recognition?

• Because they aren't in it for money or fame.

• I think the problem is one of optics. People only see teachers working during school hours, and not all the hours outside of school time. It's a problem on the university level too. I usually have to explain to my students that teaching them is actually only about half of what I get paid to do. I have to do service to the department and the university and do my own scholarship; my students only see part of it. I would agree the fact that a teacher's day is hard isn't a good enough reason for seeking higher pay. My job is hard, but I love my work. I do think, however, not enough people understand what goes in to teaching. And the level of education and the other qualifications required I do think merit higher pay. Teachers do go through performance reviews and evaluations. It may be hard to fire teachers, but I've dealt with people trying to fire people in corporate America, and it doesn't seem any less arduous or expensive. Back to the optics issue, however. My best friend was shocked to learn I only got paid once a month, for instance. Most people also don't understand the way teacher pay schedules work: 9 month contracts with the option of being paid in 12 month installments; getting paid 1 month or more in arrears. I started my current teaching job in mid August and didn't get my first pay check until the end of September. My health insurance didn't begin until then either. It's worse for temporary teachers or adjuncts on the university level, who get paid in four installments per semester. I actually don't think you're wanting to denigrate teachers at all. But saying that teachers are wasteful because of certain factors of their jobs beyond their control is not a productive solution. Better to advocate for reform of pay structure on the state level if you really think teachers should work year round and get paid accordingly. The other thing is that while teachers have become the main topic of conversation here, the budget short fall crisis facing state governments requires a tightening of belts, but firing thousands of workers isn't a good solution. The private market doesn't have the jobs to absorb all those laid off workers.

• 1) Teacher's are under contract from August to the end of May, early June. They can either get paid in 9 month or 12/13 month installments. They get paid once a month, and most get paid in arrears, meaning that they will have worked for a month or more before they get a paycheck. (It works this way in higher education too.) So, during June and July, most teachers are drawing a paycheck for work already done because most choose the 12/13 month pay schedule. It's not paid time off; it's money teachers have already earned. If this bothers you, perhaps you should lobby for school districts to offer the 9 month pay schedule plan only or for longer school years. Vilifying teachers for a pay system set up by the state is not the answer. 2) My health insurance when I taught high school was most certainly not gold plated. It was as basic as it could get. Teachers get five sick days per semester, 10 per school year. Remember they work with children who come to school sick. Teachers do not get maternity leave. A teacher having a baby during the school year must use their 10 days and then take leave without pay. 3) In Texas, public school teachers pay into the TRE instead of Social Security. If they worked in the private sector at any point, and then become teachers, they can only get benefits from one of those accounts, not both. I think most people would be more than a bit upset if they could not roll over their 401 Ks from another job. Teacher's can't. 4) Teachers do not set their contract terms as far as the length of the school year. If you think teachers should work year round, then contact your state legislature about the required number of instructional days a year. But remember, in Texas at least, the cost of running a school district during the summer months is astronomical because of the cooling costs. 5) Teachers in Texas are required to renew their teaching certificates every five years; they must complete 20 hours of professional development every year to be eligible to renew their certificate, or 100 hours total. Many teachers use the summers to take courses in order to meet some of those hours. It's the certificate system that gives public school teachers higher pay, by the way. You don't have to be certified to teach private school. I'm not saying private school teachers are not qualified. They are and they are most certainly under paid. But, the state of Texas requires certification and extra college prep and testing for teachers. The trade off is a little higher yearly salaries. DISD starting salary for a BA is 45,350.

• I'm with you 100%. Drain the school board and administration cesspools in Texas, and you would solve every problem our public school system has.

• Jay: read the commenters here. You prove my point.

• Maybe she's not educating the kids, but it's not for a lack of trying. I know a teacher who taught seniors in high school. She spent most of her time trying to manage the classroom, keeping students from talking in class, fighting, sleeping and tossing chairs, until she was left with 10 minutes to teach a 60 minute lesson plan that she had worked on for weeks. These kids do NOT want to learn. Ever heard of AR (accelerated reading)? A bullpucky point system that the kids have learned to game. There are seniors that still read at only a second/third grade reading level because they figured out quickly that all they had to do was read more books but at a lower level. She became so frustrated that she asked to teach ninth grade. It was just as bad if not worse. And did I mention these kids have been taught BY THEIR PARENTS that they are so special that they "deserve" all A's and to go to college? Sue Sylvester is right, the world needs bus drivers and fry cooks, but we've decided that's not good enough for some of our kids. My friend went back to teach freshmen at her old college. Sadly, THESE students come totally unprepared for college or to handle basic research. They have been passed through every year so their "fragile egos don't get bruised and their self-esteem doesn't suffer." I know too many teachers who DO care. Maybe they care too much, which is why it hurts them when people like you claim that they do nothing. Does the system need to be changed so that it doesn't protect bad teachers? Absolutely. But don't lump all teachers into the same bad batch of rotten apples. That makes you as bad as those that lump all conservative Republicans into the same group.

• Listen, Phelps, I'm with you on the teachers who wholeheartedly support unions and write on the walls of the capitol building in WI with Sharpie markers to protect their lazy-creating seniority system. My fear is that Texans will lump Texas teachers in with that crowd. We don't have unions with any power other than to hassle the administration when the administration violates the contract written by the administration. Especially in DISD, good teachers constantly have to fight against an entrenched bureaucracy built on race and cronyism instead of excellence. Instead I want Texans to look at the real culprit in the mess that public education has become: immoral, dishonest, greedy, LOCAL SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS. Who do you think fosters and tolerates the corruption? Our DISD school board members.

• Is that why so many of them are secessionists? Or is it that they forget that Ronald Reagan was head of a trade union?

• And 100 signs by so-called-educators comparing Walker to Hitler explicitly shall not be noted by the establishment media, lest they be mistaken for a movement.

• So, you wish harm on hypothetical children based on something someone else wrote on the internet? How... Neanderthal. Don't worry about my kids. I'll work real hard to keep them out of the indoctrination systems known as "justice" and "education".

• If it's such a fable, and we heap so much abuse on them so unfairly, then why don't they go and take one of the public sector jobs that they are allegedly so overqualified for and allegedly pay so much more?

• Yes. My mother raised me to give respect to everyone who has not done something to squander it. The police don't put their lives on the line for me. If they did, I would respect them. They put their lives on the line for a paycheck nowdays, and will readily tell you so. Their job isn't particularly dangerous. Fisherman, construction workers, and taxi drivers have much, much more dangerous jobs. I agree 100% that administration is a much bigger problem than the teachers. The problem is, teachers grow up to be administrators, and that is where the problem comes from. I don't think we have been well served with compulsory education either, so it's not like I'm one of the ones clamoring for you to incarcerate every child who doesn't have the money to escape. My contempt for the police will go away when they don't spend their days as tax collectors on the side of the road with the occasional sidetrack to abuse the rights of someone without the status to fight back (and occasionally beat or kill them.)

• You know what I think? What these toxic teachers really suffer from is a form of status anxiety. They haven't attained the status they want, they're scared that whatever additional status they gain from simply being teachers will go away, they're enraged that the world has passed them by, and they actually think that getting all red in the face because wealthy people don't pay enough taxes puts them in the winner's circle.

• No relation, Gary. Nice try, though. Gary Evans?

• Flimsy reporting, beneath you JimS. Or, based on your recent writing, the "new reality"? One sign by a nimrod in Wisconsin does not a movement make.

• Very well put. Thank you.

• They need more. ------------------------ The postal service cut $3 billion in costs last year and will see an additional savings of about $2 billion this year, but it is crippled by pre-funded retiree medical benefits of $5.5 billion annually. That payment is due by Sept. 30. Workers' compensation benefits in the amount of $1.2 billion are due in October. Donahoe said the postal service will might be as much as $3 billion short of the amount needed for those payments. http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/03/03/US-Postal-Service-faces-huge-deficits/UPI-94761299162139/#ixzz1FlLNBqcV

• All right-wingers hate teachers, just like everyone on the left hates policemen.

• So, in this thread I've got Mr Schutze calling me a racist (or is it crypto-racist? Pseudo-racist?) and now some clown is calling to ban me by name? I'm pretty sure that means I'm making arguments that can't be refuted with reason. The flak is always thickest when you are over the target.

• ^^^ the sort of hatred I was talking about

• ^^^ the sort of hatred I was talking about

• I have a profound respect for teachers. But when you have such a long history of the DISD ADMINISTRATION and the never ending scandals and examples of incompetence that never end........ Every year we have the same clowns in control Flores, Blackburn and Lowe...... It is the administration is who I hate. Same can be said for the city. The workers are some of the hardest worker; but, look at the city administration, city council and mayor........And of course those in power hide behind the workers and never take responsibility for the messes that they created. And we reward them with yet more money and another term in office.

• First the local districts Next the local Junior Collage. Then the Public University System ? The attack on the public school systems has been a well planned assault . However I don't think those who are pushing for it expected such success so soon . Their ranks swelled quickly. Just as I don't think those who are defending it expected a total collapse from the folks who they counted on to stand with them. Can't wait for those Anti Teaching folks to find out about State University TENURE, and the SABBATICAL'S. And the PAY SCALE ! Their heads will explode. Although they may be satisfied with the huge class size .

• Conservatives, or Americans, don't hate Teachers, they hate Unions.

• Not yet anyway ....

• There will always be fringe lunatics. It's too bad that's all the media chooses to broadcast to the masses. And no, these people won't be coming after me. I work in a "right to work" state in the private sector.

• It's quite simple actually. The rich despise the poor. It's in their DNA...look at history and you will find that there is and always will be a group of evil that truly believes they are the Chosen Ones who should control all wealth, land, and the plebs personal lives! I never truly will understand, why or how, someone could despise another human being so much, for just wanting to be able to provide for their family. We're not asking for yachts and private island vacation homes...we're just asking for enough to live on, so our children won't have to grow up in the deplorable state of poverty(which in most cases begets more poverty). We only have this one life, so why would a rationale, kind, loving human being want to see another human being suffer? This type of thinking that is going on in these folks minds is bordering on sociopathy.

• No, the teachers should be paid more...and the reason kids are failing(not all mind you) is do to poverty, malnutrition, and the minimal support received from their respective households(if they even have a home to live in). There's a reason why, the more affluent areas, where public schools are located, do quite well.

• Plank outta yer own eye, Jim, and all that. I'm thinking there's been quite enough uncivil and thuggish behavior on both sides in recent years. But I'm so worried about it, that this quote pops to mind: "When they came for the smokers I kept silent because I don't smoke. When they came for the meat eaters I kept silent because I'm a vegetarian. When they came for the gun owners I kept silent because I'm a pacifist. When they came for the drivers I kept silent because I'm a bicyclist. They never did come for me. I'm still here because there's nobody left in the secret police except sissies with rickets." - Florence King

• I don't think you should be banned, that was intended to be a reducteo of your own point--aka sarcasm.

• I'd like to take down BOTH parties. You are dense is you see such a stark difference. The party that rules this country is Wall St. Their favorite candidate won every election since LBJ, Carter being the lone exception. Notice how they have the same foreign policy, same crony capitalism MO. The fact that you, and the libs buy into this false dichotomy, fake polarization you prove your an idiot and a tool. No party deserves straight ticket support. In fact, you'd do better to vote to the extreme, libertarian, Green, what have you than to actually vote R or D. They know they can take you for granted if you're into the dichotomy. We're seeing some real action thanks to the Tea Party influence. I don't like where they are taking things but that is because the Dems are so craven they can't defend liberal principles. If there are more votes on the extreme than there are in the middle, the politicos will move to a more ideal position. I appreciate genuine conservative principles, Nixon and Goldwater would be Dems today--probably a couple of the most liberal Dems at that. But Ray, please, don't buy this polarization non-sense, much of that IS driven by Fox, idiocy is promoted by the others as well. There is no liberal media, there is a corporate media, a propagandized, compromised, media that is concerned only about profits, product placements, and paparazzi.

• I'm sorry, didn't mean to point out DISD, but the NYT article is about hatred of teachers in WI and their collective bargaining issues. Look, I don't hate teachers, and I think it was wrong to suggest that they should be paid minimum wage. But it's the Times and they found their wacko for the piece. Emotions are high over there, and unfortunately the Times is all too willing to allow someone like that to speak for a philosophy on politics (that in all likely hood he doesn't understand), and this in turn fuels comments like this: "cuz no matter what we do, we can't get "better results" if you'rte going to come in behind us and lie to the kid and tell Little Timmy that we don't know what we're talking about and everything we say is part of a liberal conspiracy." I haven't and will not suggest that teachers don't work hard. Education isn't some liberal conspiracy and I don't think that educators are a bunch of 'welfare queens' trying to suck money out of the system. But at some point, somebody has to step back and ask why a politician tells me that more money is the only answer when for decades this has proven not to be the case. We spend tremendous amounts of money per student all over the country (I think it was total $25,000 per pupil per year in DC) and the amounts just keep getting bigger. The test results don't get better. Do you believe that we don't have the best and brightest educating our children already? Is the additional money required to bring in better talent than we have now? This is not to suggest that teachers shouldn't get raises as they grow in experience and knowledge, but why the continuous demand for more and more money?

• Yeah, Yeah, Yeah all we do is listen to Fox News to receive our marching orders. Same old line over and over. It's completely fair to demonize the Governor of WI. but you go crazy when the supporters of the other side demonizes back. You hate it when the Republicans filibuster, but you love it when 14 state senators leave the state. You claim that the birthers are all just racists but it's ok to hire a truther as a czar. You claim a "Shepherd" wants to kill the unions and the democratic party, but I have a feeling you would like to take down the republican party.

• Schutze, you rock. You always hit the nail on the head.

• Salary wise I'd say I'm in the same boat as your wife. I have a 401k and hope that that will fund my retirement one day, but yeah, it won't make me 1 million a year. I'm sorry to hear that your wife's compensation is not proportional to the added time that she works. My argument has been that teachers make good money on an hourly basis for the time that they work, and it sounds like that doesn't really apply very well to your wife. My sister teaches special ed and I've seen what a challenge that can be. But she is in another state where compensation is somewhat more generous than here in Dallas. I don't know about you and your wife, but Im somewhat younger and I doubt that I will ever receive Social Security in retirement. I pay into that system, but I have grave doubts about its future.

• That sounds horrible.

• I have made my point clear. Teachers who get results should be paid well. Period. If you can explain Calculus to kids and they can demonstrate acquired skills on standardized tests, then you deserve a HUGE freaking raise. You are teaching and your kids are successful. If a teacher passes a kid from Pre-K to Kindergarten as non-verbal, then they have set that child down the path to failure, and should be shit-canned. (I have seen this happen before) Is the No Child Left Behind act the way to go about things? Probably not. But at least it recognizes a need for accountability, which is something teachers unions are probably right to avoid. I have seen school systems where teacher pay raises were distributed amongst all teachers regardless of tenure or performance, and that was in non-union territory. I have seen rampant nepotism in inner city school systems in the South. Worst of all, I have seen administrators shun and outright reject proven methods for improving performance in the classroom because it would mean closing schools in corrective action and losing money and authority. Do I blame teachers? I guess so, the ones who deserve it. I'm glad you mentioned administrators because they really shouldn't get away from this conversation without their fair share of blame. I'm sorry if the call for accountability BEFORE blindly handing out cash has offended anyone here.

• I agree that too much is attributed to racism, though many of the arguments that are made can't seem to fail to take a few jabs that are, if not racist, suggestive of racist memes. Of course, too often we're thrown into, or throw up false dichotomies. Though, you have to admit the Manichean world-view is more common among the right.

• Now that is a provocative point. I have no problem with these jobs or their benefits--though it should be easier to fire some for lack of performance. Further, we should probably hire MANY more low level (clerical) workers, though we should probably limit most of them to 5 years. Economically speaking these salaries and benefits cost next to nothing, again THESE BENES COST NEXT TO NOTHING. Since, nearly all of this cost is recouped back through the economy. The same cannot be said about excessive executive salaries. Calling these benes lavish is particularly odd, especially coming from politicians who's benes are far, far more lavish, some costing in excess of $400K/year for Congress critters. Attacking TEACHERS is so obscene. What is so disgraceful is so see this agenda play out over the last decade on the AM radio dial, and FOX news. These stories, these attacks are coordinated among the right wing broadcasters. Their stories pander to the most juvenile, ignorant among people. Truly, this an all out assault on truth funded by the the Bushes, Kochs, Simmons and other big gov't contractors who resent the pennies gov't pays the people while protecting their multi million dollar, no bid gov't contracts, monopoly protections, and tax incentives; to the degree of sending us to war for corporate interest. How can you so resent workers from uniting while not criticizing what the real rich and powerful special interests extract for a private few corporate persons.

• Branden, I think you should be banned for being such a fascist. Shouldn't we be allowed to confront and argue these issues out? Perhaps we should keep everything on an even keel. Maybe we can clench our fists and shudder like Kip Dynamite, but we should never betray the decorum. Are you really a sponsor of censorship, thought control and political correctness? Ninnys like you sat silent for the sake of decorum while Blacks were lynched, wars were led with lies, where our weapons murdered innocents, some of our soldier raped. But (Kip Dynamite voice; clenched teeth, highly repressed) we shouldn't use such graphic language, people of color were vigorously harassed, some well meaning people thought they were doing their best in protecting us, some soldiers, well boys will be boys,... god, don't you get sick of living in a Tennessee Williams' lie? Do you fuck your wife with that limp thing? I wear my gun outside my pants for all the honest world to feel!

• Phelps' posts are inflammatory but good quality. In fact, I think more Americans agree with him/her on this subject than disagree. Maybe not the majority of the more-liberal-than-average Observer readers, but of the whole.

• It's proportional to the amount of liberals who hate republicans, call folks who want the borders protected racists and believe that all criticism directed at the President is hate speech.

• Really? I don't think Fed-Ex or UPS are eager to join the international postal workers union. Part of that is that international mail will be accepted and delivered on common terms. This is not a simple problem, and I find it funny that Constitution loving conservatives forget that the Postal Service is written in there. Where are the Originalists? I hate sophism, I hate worse those too stupid to recognize they've bought and repeated, ad nauseum pure sophism.

• But those "private" institutions operate with overt and covert gov't support. They are a utility. It used to be that bankers got paid squat but had job security and benefits, no more. What do you think the FDIC, the SEC, the CFTC, and the bailouts are all about? I'm a landscaper, I'M IN THE FREE MARKET. Not the engineers at TI--indirect gov't employees, or most jobs in this economy. Even Jerry Jones relies on Gov't subsidies, both for his oil and his stadium. The Simmons brother's titanium business sells to, the average joe, or defense contractors--indirect gov't employees.

• great writing! one quibble.....20K doesnt quite get 'the best'

• Trey hasn't been paying attention -- the public union employees in WI agreed to the increases in their retirement and health care costs. The silly governor wasn't satisfied with that. And a little perspective "Why is a 3% tax increase on the richest considered 'socialism' but a 14% pay cut on the middle class is 'doing your part'?" - Linda Zambanini

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