Going Underground (Again): More Thoughts On and Looks At Downtown Dallas's Tunnels

• I had to laugh at the Noodle Nexus glamour shot.

• Numbers Guy: it had nothing to do with the schizophrenic that pulled the trigger. It had to do with the crowd that cheered him on. Instead of me buying a statistic textbook, why don't you take a reading comprehension class.

• You haven't been checked for a DART pass in years? What train are you riding? I've ridden the Blue Line 5 days a week for almost 3 years and the longest I can remember riding without being checked is 2, maybe 3 days tops. Maybe I just look suspicious.

• One schizophrenic 25 years ago keeps you from an urban center? What about the 1000 people that die every year on Texas interstate highways? Good Lord buy a freshman statistics textbook and read the first 5 pages.

• I think Kennedy and co. are being too hard on the tunnels. I wonder if the tunnels have hot dog carts and lesser, causal businesses. I haven't traveled them too extensively for a long while. But, it seems that even Mr Kennedy would want more than one level of development for his dream development. There's no reason that 2nd foor couldn't be below grade. Someone mentioned the DART Rail and this is good. But, it needs streetcars to expand coverage through downtown. There are programs for that but these need to be better coordinated and expedited. I've written in favor of TIF funds for a larger system, but I don't support those same tools for private gain. Frankly, I don't think that can with stand as Constitutional as it offers unequal protection under the law. But the Supremes recorded that Kelo allows an elected body to offer these perks. These built the Gaylord and likely much of our city over the last decade or so. Wonder where those budgetary shortfalls come from? We seldom discuss these give-aways. Sadly, we don't get much clarity on this issue. Is there an figure for how much the deals take out of our coffers? Some of these developments are better than others, and I appreciate those arguments. But, I think we need a Constitutional Amendment to prevent these payouts to lure private corporations by municipalities. That will mean corporations will make decisions based on market conditions, not where they might find abeyance on their taxes. This should drive efficiencies in the economy and protect the taxpayer, who is the only victim in this cycle of bribes and payoffs.

• I don't think I've ever NOT been checked. at least the last couple of years.

• I've heard of these subway tunnels in years past, but I believe they are nothing more than myth -- I once asked Morgan Lyons, the head spokesman at DART, about these very tunnels of which you speak, and he said, nope, they do not exist. "An urban legend," he said when asked if subway tunnels do indeed exist in or near downtown. I believe there may be something down there. But it was not dug for subway cars.

• Robert it appears from your article and your conversation with The Hardline you are not aware of the subway tunnels under downtown. At least that is what I was told the were originally for. I am not sure of it lenght but there is a tunnel that runs between Elm and Pacific. I did not explore but was shown by a building engineer in the early 90's. The part i saw was accessible from the I believe P4 parking level of 1700 Pacific. would love to hear more about it's original plan and age.

• I think the tunnels need bike lanes.

• I've used the tunnels for years and there have been some shops there, but you never saw people lingering there, except to eat lunch or grab morning coffee. I agree w/the user who posted about going to the Business Magnet. In the winter, it was awesome to hop off the bus, go right into a building and down into the tunnels. From there you could get past Harwood, take the overhead walkway to the building right at Pearl and Bryan. Put you right at school. You can start this trek at the Bank of America building by El Centro. . Methinks the rehash of "the tunnels did it!" is spurred on by some who really think the city is going to reroute the highways away from downtown. It should be "the city didn't!". Our city leaders are very good at letting things go to hell in a hand basket. The West End Marketplace is a great example. BTW, I vote sleestaks..fuck the morlocks!

• Tunnels are shut down at night and on the weekends so that the streets roll up after 5:00 is not their fault. Main Street isn't that bad on the weekends; I walk to a couple of restaurants there often. I do wish there was good Saturday and Sunday breakfast, but that is also not the fault of the tunnels. It's a great soundbite for Wilonsky and is Kennedy/Hunt/Oak Cliff/Cyclist lovefest, but it completely ignores the reality of the people who work (much less work and live - sorry amber) in the central business district.

• I remember back in the 1980's when that guy gunned down a policeman outside the downtown McDonald's while a crowd cheered him on. That was when I started avoiding going downtown unless I absolutely, positively had to. And when I do have to go there, I stick to the tunnels as much as possible. Thank God for those tunnels.

• I love the idea of tunnels, and one day when I take a vacation day I might be able to visit one since I don't work downtown. Until then, I will live on Main St. and have a ghost town that surrounds me after work and on weekends.

• NOODLE NEXUS!!!!!!

• Yeah, there used to be a reason to be on the street: H.L.Green, Brooks Brothers, woolf Brothers, Jas. K. Wilson, Titches/Joskes, Sanger-Harris, and the myriad mom and pop and other chain stores that lined the streets and building lobbies, and this is just what I remember from the 80s. And the tunnels were more active then.

• The tunnels alone didn't cause the demise of downtown, but in a way they are keeping downtown from resurgence today. Does the city control the portion of the tunnels that connect the buildings? If so, how about wrapping those walls with a public information campaign to encourage people to get outside on a nice day? Advertise Main Street Garden (Lily Pad), The Park (eventually) and other street-level restaurants like Sol Irlandes, Iron Cactus, Which Which, Jimmy John's, Charlie Palmer, etc.?

• Basically, the tunnels are universally deplored and despised -- except by the people who use them. Kennedy and his ilk just can't accept that not everyone wants to live like they do.

• Many "urban hipsters" are professionals who work downtown and have to suit up -- myself included. I appreciate the tunnels and don't ever recall complaining about them!

• Pretty sure rubbercow was being sarcastic......

• How can the tunnels be to blame for the death of downtown when so few people even know they exist?

• I work and live downtown and like the tunnels. A lot. Rain or Summer heat, there is no better way to get around. Urban hipsters complain about tunnels, and buses on main street, lack of bike lanes and trails, and one way streets, etc. but have clearly never had to wear a suit in 100+ weather to walk to work, from one building to another, etc. Most of downtown is occupied by professionals with a dress code that does no include cargo shorts and tevas. Put on your earbuds and bike to work in a t-shirt if you can or want; just recognize expect that the rest of the workforce has the same option.

• funny!

• Houston has an much more extensive tunnel system that is full of businesses and people - at street level too. The tunnels alone are not to blame for the decay of downtown Dallas. Every other city with a tunnel system, both north and south of us, is prospering. The tunnel excuse is getting rather old!!

• It would when the Morlocks take over the tunnels and start stealing above-ground people away to be eaten.

• Like I've said, I've never been in the tunnels, but that 2005 Johnny America essay certainly implies that the tunnels themselves aren't exactly filled to the brim with people. Would closing them make that much difference in above-ground foot traffic?

• My wife (who was born and grew up in Dallas) didn't know about the tunnels. I only know about them from stories here (but my excuse is that I grew up in Amarillo, where we abandoned our downtown the old fashioned way - by building a mall).

• This story just completely baffles me. I would bet that 70-80 percent of people that do not work/live Downtown have no idea that these even exist. The video is like watching a documentary on a ghost town of sorts. If only that slick Canuck Ponte would have suggested a rail system back then. Of course, you didn't have near the sprawl that exists now with viable entertainment/restaurants from Oak Cliff up to Frisco and McKinney (not Avenue, the city). I think a huge saving grace for Dallas would be the expansion of the rail system. It would be incredibly expensive, but in the long run would be worth it, as would installing a better system to check if riders paid for tickets, I haven't been checked in years!

• I've worked downtown for 4 years and never realized just how extensive this tunnel network was. We just went in there for Chef Wangs Beef (there's a joke in there somewhere...)

• The problem with Dallas' tunnel system is not that it exists, but that it isn't very good; it isn't particularly attractive and there aren't a large number of businesses down there. I was in Minneapolis in January, and the tunnel system there is quite nice with lots of businesses. Out of curiosity, how many of the tunnel nay-sayers have actually walked outside across downtown in August?

• When it comes to Montreal, theres a reason for it: The Weather. Dallas doesnt suffer the same "Arctic" winters Quebec experiences year after year, Im one, however, that thinks both street and tunnel level business can co-exist together. Both can compete for business year-round. Concerning building/connecting new tunnels, it would be a massive undertaking for Dallas proper, as both private and public interest would have to commit the funds for the project. It would be cheaper to build above ground retail and restaurants, not to mention actually push for proper infrastructure changes that would allow mobile eateries to setup in downtown or lots nearby w/o hassle.

• In the 90s I went to summer school at the old business magnet and those tunnels were a godsend. Who wants to walk above ground in the middle of the day? Later, working downtown in the summer, I still appreciate them.

• From what I understand, their tunnels have been there since the 60s and the city's downtown area seems to be doing quite well both above and below ground. Perhaps Dallas' problem is what has always seemed to me a lack of any real, organized city planning. Dallas is just now starting to build areas such as a complete Arts District (more than just the DMA and Meyerson as it was for years) while Fort Worth has had the Stockyards, Sundance Square and the Will Rogers/Museum district in place for decades.

• Is there ever gonna be a light at the end of this tunnel?

• It's actually very simple. Creation of the tunnel system allowed the "private" building owners to rent worthless basement space in their buildings at premium "street level" rents, because of all the retail activity (think "food court") that is being created. Of course, no one realized, at the time, that it would kill the viability of renting street level space in those same buildings (and others).

• Oh, you poor deluded soul! Just wait until those tunnels destroy Montreal the way they have destroyed Dallas!

• When I was in Montreal a few years back, they had an underground tunnel system that connected local transportation, nationwide trains, shopping malls and entertainment centers while the tunnels themselves were lined with small shops such as candy stores, barbers, postal centers and book stores. It was kind of nice to be able to get around even when the weather was bad without stepping outside. I wonder how hard it would be to expand the Dallas tunnels to connect to Reunion Station, the Arts District and Uptown areas.

TotalComments: 36