Does Texas Need a Debacle?

• Now Jim, you know better than to invoke this anti WASP class envy canard. You yourself in a recent print screed about JWP cited your humble beginnings on the GM assembly line where hard working folks of all origins "pulled themselves up out of poverty".Seems to me that one of the fellas who made all that possible was Mr. Ford, who reportedly didn't have kindly views about certain religious groups etc. So know we have progressed with fewer barriers ,a diversity of folks in the highest positions, and we're on the verge of "a debacle"(according to you). Makes you kind miss the old days when the WASPS were in charge. I guess you can get so progressive that it results in contrdictory print media "AUTO_REFUTATION".

• EDM Said "Why does a business have to lay off workers, move, or raise prices? Couldn't the business reduce costs (and increase profits) by increasing efficiency?" Wait a minute you want the business to absorb the takes and do what the government should do first since they create nothing and produce nothing.

• Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. P. J. O'Rourke

• Gee - and Dems have never rigged an election. What world do you live in. These issues cut across party lines.

• "Democrats are the party that think that government should be able to make you richer, taller, stronger, smarter, and get all the chickweed out of your lawn. "Republicans are the party that says that government doesn't work, and then they get elected and prove it." -P. J. O'Rourke

• The middle class make the rich richer. Name a corporation that doesn't pass the buck down the line to a product or service that is not consumed by the middle class, so TimCov's final point is somewhat true...that no matter what tax you put on a business, theoretically, the individual pays for it. However, there are very few times in history, when taxes were higher, that our national economy suffered. in the 90's, the rich were taxed 4% higher than they are now, businesses slightly more than that difference I believe, yet, we flourished. Reagan, while praised for lowering individual tax rates, actually removed many tax incentives to businesses, yet our economy eventually improved b/c of it. Lastly, isn't that the purpose of our free market. Let's say taxes are increased to the business...the one that effectively finds a way to not pass along to consumer, or soften the blow as much as possible, wins. So far in 2011, business are making record profits b/c they are hoarding their cash and dismantling staffs. Look at G.E., the story that came out Friday. $14BILLION in PROFITS (not revenue), and not only NO taxes on that, but they actually rec'd $3BILLION in tax incentives. And oh, by the way, I think the number was 3,000 people laid off in the past year. Sense make?

• Gee, thank Ayn Rand.

• A deficit can only mean lousy, sorry taxpayers aren't paying their fair share. Please let all Dem. candidates run on this platform in 2012.

• Grandpa went in hospice, it was a good way to go, thanks for your work.

• Jim, here's where the critics of your snark have a point. I don't know what you intend by your comment. All the old people in my life, those who passed and those who remain all want to go when it's their time. They don't want to be in a hospital. My grandfather died in hospice just over a year ago. He had become incontinent, was loosing his hearing and his sight. He kinda chose to die, by not eating. It wasn't sad. And he spent only a couple of days in the hospital over the last month of his life.

• "We're already sharing plenty. And it's never enough. Ever." Our taxes as a share of the economy are at 100 yr lows. HOW does your claim bear any resemblance to reality? Judging from your avatar you don't earn enough to support the non-sense you're spouting. You should stop listening to people who take your for an idiot.

• Where was all this conviction 6 years ago?

• I would assume that several common positions could be drawn up, and those promulgated levels might be scaled "A" "B" "C" "D" "E" and look for letter. Why not have it on your DL. Considering the fact that these decisions are often enough made in an Emergency Room, I'm not sure they can be so easily accessed.

• Very true. Another example of Dems having no back bone...they are standing and watching as Republicans piece by piece continue to rig elections by eliminating the Democratic voter (overturning corp donation policies, etc). And beyond that, the true issue is the line we, as citizens, are being required to pick a side of by our current "representative" system.

• DO OLD PEOPLE NEED AN EXPIRATION DATE ? And Is keeping them alive with drugs treatments and operations the same as ABORTING the date of their natural Death ? Just Kidding.

• I think that MattL1 has broached a subject that needs addressing ... probably not in this forum because mixing the topics of Medicaid funding and end of life issues is not a good idea. But having seen more than a fair share of people pass on from this life to the next as a hospice volunteer, I have seen the anguish in family discussions over loved ones lingering in a very bad state of health. Right now it seems that a lot of wisdom is being passed along in this forum based on anecdotal observations on financial or lack thereof preparations or the worst case scenario of poor life style choices. What IS needed is the know what put the bulk of people in nursing care and how to address this from a humane, economic perspective w/ feeling like we are kicking Grandma to the curb.

• The healthcare crisis in this country is way too serious for really dumb comments like this one. You keep people alive no matter what or someone will kill them? It's idiotic to even contemplate that idea taken to its logical conclusion. We spend every dime of our money keeping increasingly fragile and sick people alive. I didn't say old people. I said sick people. Do some basic research into the economics of healthcare and get back to me before I take you seriously. This is not about the rich paying more taxes (which they need to) - it's about a society that cannot afford to carry out the mission of "keeping alive at all costs". Realistically, if you are asking the public at large to finance that mission, the government is going to be the entity that makes the decision of which treatments are cost effective and which ones simply aren't. That means some people will die from lack of treatment. Guess what? Everyone dies. People are bent out of shape in this country about healthcare being a "right" that should not be doled out based on ability to pay, and I agree to a point. But frivolous surgeries carried out on terminal patients for the sole purpose of prolonging length of life and not quality are something that are great when you're paying your own bill. But they simply aren't good public policy. Look to any country that socializes healthcare delivery systems and you will see some sort of rationing system.

• Oh, and we should tax churches.

• If you tax businesses, they will make campaign contributions to the other guy. That is how it works.

• See: Schiavo, T. repubs all up in that family decision.

• They make donations to the politicians that rail against government spending, then hold out their hands for that government money.

• Those health care company owners are republicans.

• Listen T.P., I usually agree with you, but you've gone too far. I'll give up my Bud Lite when they pry the ice cold bottle from my hot little hands.....

• The old "if you tax businesses, they will just raise prices" idea is a sham. All kinds of other things come into play, including competition, efficiencies, dividends, etc. What is happening in Texas and across the country is that big business is successfully draining the middle class dry with the help of the Republican party. Every anti-union measure is a swipe at the middle class. Every Pell Grant cut and public high school cut is going to hurt the middle class. Through some incredible marketing, business has convinced the voting public that they are "on our side", which is just plain laughable. It's depressing what has become of so-called "Christians" and their allegiance to the "every man for himself" attitude that has taken over.

• One last thing -- Wick Allison wrote an editorial in this month's D Magazine called "The Welfare Queens of Texas." I suggest you check it out. By the way, Wick is about as conservative, pro-business as they come.

• False dichotomy, Jim. The choice isn't only between "death panels" and what is tantamount to the "animatronicizing" of the elderly. Then again, you've never met a fallacy you didn't like.

• Like I said, I'm not a genius with all the answers. And I'm not advocating that the elderly eat a bullet. I do however have a Physicians Directive which I expect my relatives and doctors to follow. Under certain defined conditions, I expect my family to demand that treatment ends, except for pain management. End of life discussions should be part of everyone's health care plans. Too bad the issue was politicized. Its good that you can see these issues in such black and white terms.

• The change will be to provide the revenue it was forecast to provide. And there's lots of data out there that strongly challenges your suppositions. And I would be willing to pay an indexed gasoline tax --- that's a start.

• I didn't know Texas has so many atheists! For me, the argument is settled. To wit, "Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me."

• 1) Why does a business have to lay off workers, move, or raise prices? Couldn't the business reduce costs (and increase profits) by increasing efficiency? 2) I am not convinced all taxes on business get passed on to the consumer. I can see how a tax on raw materials or transportation could be passed on as part of the cost of doing business but exactly how does a tax on a business's profits get passed to the consumer? If the business raises prices to offset the tax, their profits should increase (assuming constant sales) resulting in an even greater tax burden.

• TimCov and Brenda Marks... Thanks to both of you for having a good old honest and charitable debate. Something that this site woefully lacks... and this is especially so when it comes to Mr. Schutze.

• Instead of engaging in honest debate, you resort to absurdity. You're one smart guy, Jim. Wow.

• It shouldn't come as a galloping shock that I don't know what I'm talking about. I did, however, write to the president expressing my interest in being a part of a "death squad." I was assured that no such thing existed.

• Plus, you know if you do talk about it you're an Oabma death squad.

• I'm not able to answer that question, I'm not them. If they change the business tax to generate more revenue, it will result in higher prices and possibly lower or negative job growth. Businesses don't exist to pay taxes. Businesses exist to make a profit. If the cost of business goes up they have to reduce costs and/or raise prices. When businesses reduce costs they either lay-off people or move to where the cost of doing business is lower. Also, you did not answer my question. How much more out of YOUR pockets are you willing to pay to make up the Texas budget shortfall. No matter what the tax is, it ends up being paid by individuals.

• MattL!: Matt, you ain't been around enough people about to die. They talk about it a lot. They say, "DON'T LET ME DIE!"

• Everybody says it won't happen to them because, "I've always got my old friend, Smith and Wesson, to see it don't happen to me." But when the time comes, you think, "I've got my old friend, Smith, and ... uh .. Smith and ... Winston? Watson?" Next thing you know you're strapped in a high chair blowing bubbles with your lunch. So let me ask this, DallasCoAtty: are you saying you want the Smith & Wesson duty? If not you, who? Hey, I know. Let's leave it up to the Dallas city council to decide when people need to talk Mssrs Smith & Wesson. You either keep folks alive no matter what, or somebody's got to to kill them.

• You know it's really easy to spout Tea Party lingo. But propose realistic ideas? That's harder.

• But you don't answer the question asked -- are they willing to fix the business margins tax so it accomplishes it's purpose? I understand that the state can't collect a statewide property tax -- but if you've followed the session that's exactly what the Republican leadership has been bouncing around under the radar and with murmured breath. Constitutional amendment giving them the legislative authority to implement one. And the cuts in education they are proposing in HB 1 will lower the state's contribution to such a degree that the courts will step in yet again. Face it, the school age population is growing much faster than the state education budget. That's not going to change. The revenue has to follow. And even the business-biased Texas Supreme Court will tell you that.

• TP -- You get no argument from me, but the patient doesn't get to pick how much of that $500 a day is worth paying. They have to pay it all. That's my point.

• Brenda - The state constitution prohibits the state from collecting property tax. What they did was limit the property tax rates that school districts could impose and promised to make up the money with the business tax. Even if they lifted the restriction to the levels before the law was enacted, it is doubtful the schools could make up the losses due to the declining/flatlining of property values most of the state has seen. The only way they could not make these cuts is raise taxes and/or institute new taxes. So, how much more out of your pockets are you willing to pay to stop these cuts? Keep in mind that The Texas population is roughly 25 million. That means for every 1 billion dollars not cut from the budget, another $40 per person in the state must be raised in revenue.

• Is it possible that a lot of the issues we have with spending on end-of-life care stem from a difficulty our culture has with discussing and dealing with issues of death and dying? It often seems like the one thing everybody has in common is the one thing nobody talks about.

• Lewis Black said it best, Republicans have bad ideas, Democrats have no idea. That being said, let me rail on my Republican compadres. First, we're all in this together, and we are only as strong as our weakest link. Put more and more of our "weakest link" on the streets, w/o resources, we will see way worse repurcussions than "debt ceilings", deficits, etc etc. 2nd, I am Independent (of course, right?!), but would lean left of center undoubtably. But, I consider myself Pro-Life...I also believe that abortion (and gay marriage for that matter) are personal issues the people involved have to take up w/ God. so why our Right-minded politicians feel they have to interfere w/ people's private lives is confusing, considering they want smaller government and judgment is left to God. And let's be brutally honest, other than rapes and health of the mother, the majority of abortion candidates are lower middle class to poor single moms (yes, there are a chunk of the coed college girls too). They are taught they will go to Hell if they abort their child, so they give birth even when they're not sure they want it. They either give the child up (now it's on the state's tab) or they raise it on their own (and it goes on the state's tab). Maybe our saviors in Red could just butt out of that issue, and there's some money. Now, someone else had the VERY valid point that nursing home administrators and home health company owners are the real beneficiaries of the Medicaid crisis. In my little North TX town, one home health care company, who's business is 80%+ gov't funded, was giving away JAGUARS to their nurses. Jaguars were their company cars!! Another home healthcare co owner bought a $5million home recently. And, having had 3 grandparents in nursing homes, the grandparents who actually had quite a nest egg of money and long-term planning in place, was charged substaintially LESS for their care, versus the other grandparent who spent the last month of his life in a nursing home on Medicare's tab...but for twice the money in a lower-standard facility. Why? B/c they can. Once again, if our Republican friends would stop saying "we need responsible government", and actually practice it themselves, then perhaps some of their plans would make sense. And if our Blue brothers would grow vertabrae, perhaps they could intervene w/ policy that makes sense. If only.......

• There once was a time in the country when families took care of their own elderly parents and relatives. But through the miracles of modern medicine and entitlement health care, our elderly are kept alive much longer, although too often with little or no quality of life, and in a medically fragile state that family support alone can not maintain. I'm not a genius with all the answers, like many who seem to post here, but something is wrong when our entitlement programs promote spending massive amounts on health care to maintain the elderly in near comatose states in nursing facilities. I hope to God someone care enough about me in 30 years or so to prevent that particular brand of government enabled elderly abuse. BTW, as an attorney, I'm often asked to draft documents to convey mom or dads house to one of their children, so mom or dad can get into a Medicaid paid nursing home, and the kids can keep the house instead of the government. Of course I refuse. But it is a very common request.

• Actually, this was the plan by Perry and the Republicans -- create the crisis and slash social spending. This is how they roll.. Wake up people.

• All of the comments so far fail to address what I think is the most important thing: how we got here. We are here because of legislative and Gubernatorial ineptitude bordering on criminally neglectful "leadership." The deficit was created by the Leg with the 2006 tax swap resulting in a $10B per year structural (i.e. planned) deficit. If we had left our tax system in place, we would have a minor to no budgetary issues. Instead, allowed to fester since 2006 with no attempt to address the revenue shortfall created by the tax swap, we now are arguing about whether to kill the elderly, throw the mentally ill on the street, fire the teachers or go for the hat trick of all 3. If the state were run like a business as Perry and company have you believe, virtually all in charge of the state since 2006 would be fired today, told the clear out their desk, escorted out of the capital and written up as completely incapable of accomplishing the minimal tasks required to run this state.

• Tim -- one good place to start would be for Perry, Dewhurst, Strauss and their Legislative allies to fix the HUGE budget deficit hole they created in 2005 when they cut property taxes and "substituted" a business margins tax in its place. As predicted by the Comptroller at the time it was enacted, that business margins tax has failed miserably. But so far, they are unwilling to show any leadership whatsoever to fix the mess they created. Instead, Perry, Dewhurst, Strauss and their Legislative allies are choosing to gut public education, throw old people out of nursing homes and raise the unemployment rate in Texas over 2% (as forecast by the Legislative Budget Board's dynamic revenue report issued last week). There's your solution.

• Sadly, the idea of the "social conscience" has fallen by the wayside. Because those who are old and can't afford to live chose to end up that way due to their bad life decisions, and therefore don't deserve help from the rest of us who haven't had time to make their mistakes yet. Those who lack access basic medical services should just get better jobs, because a basic human right is only a basic human right if you can afford it. Children should be forced to go hungry and attend bad schools because their parents are lazy and unwilling to change. I'm fairly convinced that the short-term costs of lessening these problems are far outweighed by the long-term cost of doing nothing and allowing them to grow out of control.

• No, its not. In 2006 the Leg and Perry did a so called tax swap exchanging lowering property taxes for a business tax. By late 2007, we knew this was horribly failed to the tune of a swap resulting in a $10B a year deficit. Our crisis is one of grossly negligent self inflicted wounds. For the last 3 years, nothing has been done to account for the $10B a year structurally created deficit. Now that it is at crisis stage, the plan is to fire teachers, kill Medicaid, etc. No reasonable state runs their business like that.

• We really need to get past the idea that society somehow owes people health care when those people have chosen a lifestyle of Big Macs, Bud Light, Marlboros and meth, all the while growing more and more obese and addicted as they sit in front of their big screen TVs all day and night. Don't come crying to me for "health care" in the form of lapband surgery, lung cancer treatment and alcohol/substance abuse programs when you willingly and irresponsibly neglected your own health for years on end. I'm all for caring for our elderly. I feel not one whit of responsibility for caring for our ignorant, especially when they won't care for themselves.

• We're already sharing plenty. And it's never enough. Ever. Time for change. Deal with it. The party is over.

• I would be a little hesitant to DNR orders on the back of my driver's license because I think it is too big a decision to reduce down to a couple of check boxes. Today, there are legal documents that can spell out in excruciating detail what your wishes are in these situations. I would support a registry with an indication on the driver's license (oops ... DPS issued ID) that an advance directive is on file so it can be easily accessed when the time comes.

• How much of that $500/day actually goes to caring for the elderly? Look at the pay scales of those who work there caring for the elderly, look at the neglect suffered by the elderly who live there. We've all heard the horror stories of neglect and abuse in nursing homes. My point is most of that $500/day goes to making some rich nursing home owner richer. What they don't get from you they get from the government. Nursing homes are a scam, a racket, a mechanism for the owners to get rich off subsidies while providing substandard service and care to those who need it. Look at what you get for $500/day at a hotel - fancy furniture, room service, pool/sauna, internet access... and the hotel still makes money without government subsidies. Imagine that same level of service and amenities at a nursing home where the "room cost" is the same.

• It won't be a problem for him. We will just waltz into his room and declare his a life unworthy of living while we stroll on down to the euthanasia machine. See?

• Well, grandmother was a house wife you see? She figured her husband's pension would take care of her. She also didn't think health care would cost so much. And when she was born the life expediency of a person was around 50-60 years of age. Private charities also don't take care of a fraction of those who need help. It is a sweet thought though. And John, when you are old and what you have set aside is eaten up in a matter of a few years by ballooning health care and nursing home costs I sure hope there is some one isn't thinking, "I work for my money and I just can't afford to pay for your (health care)".

• Prosthodontics, TimCov. And where I live, the state just eliminated the Medicaid benefit for that, too.

• Mr McKee -- According to a survey by Met Life in 2009, the average per-day nursing home cost in the US was $500 per day. Multiply that my 365 days, that's $182,500 per year. So how would you do as a nursing home patient?

• I stand corrected. Still, for some people, orthodontics are still needed to be able to eat properly. Straightening people's teeth isn't just about appearance.

• I have no problem with a flat or fair tax, as long as people pay it.As it is now, to many taxes are hidden from the average worker. If a person saw that when they purchased a pack of gum for $1 that bout 50% of the money was going to pay taxes, there would be a lot more calls for responsible spending and thought given to what is and is not the government's job.

• but, shouldn't there be essentially a flat tax rate across the economy? When we allow money to exit in untaxed avenues, it tends to do so, rather than being taxed where it should be. You DO get that no?

• Paying for orthodontics is probably a decent investment for the state to make, when you think about it. Just as investment in education. Ike supported national health-care. By the way, name ONE private medical school? There's little about health-care that bears ANY resemblance to the free-market--even more so, the emergency room and ICU at the hospital.

• Orthodontics is not false teeth, it is braces to straighten your teeth.

• The top 5% own 63% of the economy. The top 10% pay 50% of the taxes. The top don't pay the same % as the middle class. That makes everyone's taxes higher, their discount makes YOU pay more.

• How about we tax people directly instead of hiding the taxes. That way, they can really see how much government costs.

• JimS: Why are you insulting Wiccans? Social Darwinism isn't anything new, and the true test of the faith of a Social Darwinist comes when they have their first uninsured heart attack. Do they choose to die rather than going to the hospital on the public dole? Fortunately, here in Texas it isn't hot enogh to put our elderly on ice floes and send them out to sea. But unfortunately there will be an allocation of limted resources between the old and the young, and the old vote and the young don't. So nursing homes payments will be preserved and schools will suffer.

• It's people! What a tidy solution!

• Did you know orthodontics is also known as false teeth. You know, so if someone has lost their teeth they can eat solid food.

• As you know, when we tax businesses, the customers pay the tax. Which, doesn't seem like such a big problem, to me. It seems to be a reasonable way to tax the economy. We should remember that gov't's share of the economy is at industrial age lows, and corporate taxes constitute a quarter of what they used to.

• Obviously, there are more selfish, hateful, greedy people here than not. That's why Goodhair and his ilk keep getting elected. These types think their "success" is entirely of their own making. Cognitive dissonance I believe is the term. They take advantage of the system here, built and paid for on the backs of hard working people and their taxes, reap the outsized rewards, again, from the backs of working folks and their meager paychecks, to then claim that they are overburdened by taxes and screw the rest of the world cause they ain't gonna share.

• Clearly there will have to be cuts. How they decide is tough, but there should be some easy ones. Did you know that medicaid pays for orthodontics???

• Permitting euthanasia is a step in the right direction. And I don't propose that we go around killing people. But the idea that because you are without resources you have a claim on those with them is strange to me. I would hope that if I find myself demented and useless that no one will prolong my misery and exhaust their resources by administering expensive healthcare, and I think it's reasonable to expect that no one demand to exhaust my resources (by taxing me) in a similar situation. And once we understand that we cannot afford or should not pay for this expensive care, I think a better default rule (which they or their families can opt out of) is to euthanize them rather than letting them slowly die in the streets.

• Soylent Green!

• I DO think that we should have DNR (do not resuscitate) orders on our Driver's Licenses along side organ donation. We could check a preference of several different promulgated coverages, from "do nothing," to "2 days," "2 weeks," "2 months," to "do everything possible," or "seek letter." I certainly don't imagine this gets all the details, but the point being a simple opt -in policy like this shouldn't offend while actually driving people to consider and record their wishes. That should save some money in needless care.

• The cost of healthcare has skyrocketed because of "health insurance". Ask a doctor how much something costs if you're gonna write a check, vs. what the insurance company pays.

• DEATH PANELS! According to Sarah, you're a liberal fucktard!

• Rich people can't get rich in a vacuum. If not for the rest of the pyramid, they would have nothing.

• More like today's reality.

• http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81028103

• Jim, I hope you read this response closely ... I have enjoyed your columns as they provoke a very lively and for the most part, thoughtful discussion. But I have to agree with David ... and McKee really wasn't a person for whom I would waste the term 'fascist' on ... he is the proto-village-buffoon.

• Well, John, no wonder your original post failed to make a cogent argument: it's a caricature of something you know little or nothing about. Anyone who not only wastes their time to write up a facetious post, but also believes that only one of the two major parties is consumed with "sociopathic greed" most likely lives in an ideological bubble. You ought to take the time to learn the arguments of your opponents (i.e., learn them as they actually are, not in the simplistic way you wish them to be). By doing so you might be able to better state your own positions and thus change minds, instead of yapping into an echo chamber.

• Only if you eat what you kill.

• I have a few questions: Where do you want the money to come from? Should we just shut our state parks down completely? How many colleges should be shut down because they no longer receive state funding? Or, do you want to raise taxes? If you want to raise taxes, how much more are you willing to pay out of your pocket? Will you hold the broken promises about not raising taxes against the politicians who would have to vote to raise them? I know the problems with cutting Medicaid. My mother works in a nursing home. My mother-in-law is having to live with us because she has been denied social security (she was a teacher), spent all of her retirement savings on taking care of her mother and has been ordered by her doctors to not work. But, the money still has to come from somewhere. And, raising taxes on businesses does 2 things: it raises prices for everyone (so you are still paying the tax) and drives businesses to places that have a lower cost of doing business. So, you can complain about cuts all you want. But, I'm not listening unless you offer some solutions.

• Both parties are in on this. They just talk about it in different ways. Can you name a single politician whom you believe to be serving solely for the good of his/her constituents?

• Then what? Sell leases out side of Furrs Coulters ...Or Golden Corral ?

• This is a very real possibility.

• I assure you I was being facetious and want nothing less than universal heathcare and an expansion of our social services programs. It's disturbing that it is so hard to tell these days. As far as I can tell the only guiding principles of the modern Republican party is sociopathic greed with pious religious extremism.

• Schutze: While I agree with the first part (and some of the latter half) of this response, why must you go down that murky path of trying to know what is in the hearts of others. It's poor form. You seem to have a bad habit of going from making good, lucid points to the verge of becoming unhinged in a single paragraph. I don't get it. I think you're smarter than this. Also, please try and refrain from using the term 'fascist' in any form unless you're going to use it properly. Just because someone thinks differently than you doesn't mean they're a fascist. Does John McKee come off like an ass here, yes. Has John Mckee laid bare his argument in any meaningful way, no. But the thrust of his statement is not fascistic; it's one strain of thought with respect to free market capitalism. A strain of thought that I personally find wrongheaded.

• I don't have a nanny and I care about immigration. I care about humane jail conditions and nobody in my family is in jail. I care a great deal about the elderly. I agree with your point that we have to take care of those who unable to care for themselves. But civilized societies are organized around rules (laws) and cannot function when those rules are abused (see: illegal immigration). If everyone plays by the rules then everyone has the expectation that the rewards of being an active member of the civilized society will be theirs when it is time to retire. When you see rules ignored or bent in the most cynical of ways (again: illegal immigration) so that our corporate overlords can have cheap, exploitable labor or our two worthless political parties can compete for the potential vote of this large group of people (Hispanics) who make the thinly veiled and racist argument that if immigration laws are enforced against Hispanics, then the Hispanic voting bloc will punish whichever party has done the enforcing. How can we be a civilized society when we reward those who break the rules and punish those who follow them? What are the expectations?

• I think this has even more promise if we arm the hunted elderly so they have a fighting chance.

• Pay no mind to James, he's from the suburbs.

• "I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled ...” Johnathan Swift, A Modest Proposal

• Or perhaps dying with dignity should be a legal medical choice available to the ill and the aging before they slip into conditions such as dementia. To euthanize people when they're deemed useless without their consent, however, smacks loudly and ignorantly of eugenics. You're on a slippery slope. In the past, pension plans for lifetime jobs paid retirement funds, and Social Security was also there for many people; that was the reality of retirement planning for a lot of people. And how much has the cost of health care risen in the last 30 years? You can be very smug and argue that they should have planned better, but you just don't know everyone's story. Not to mention that some people just never make very much money throughout their lives and live paycheck to paycheck; what's retirement planning for them? I know your retirement plan for them involves a walk behind the shed with a shotgun. I am hoping that a kinder alternative presents itself before either of us reach the age or state of your perceived uselessness, you heartless wretch.

• And there it is. The prosperty gospel in a nutshell. So long as there are enough people perfectly fine with throwing old people on the street because they "did not do enough to plan for their own future", we will not change directions. I guess workers with no access to 401Ks, IRA,s etc. who work hard to keep a roof over their head and their families fed do not get to participate in the glories of this state. Let's look away.

• M Hill. If our grandparents are going to be euthanized anyway, do you think we could have a state-licensed hunting season on them and maybe recoup some costs?

• Are you being serious? I hope not.

• Again, this all comes down to big businesses not wanting to pay their taxes. Instead of kicking in to help make sure basic services are covered, they dodge and hustle when it comes to paying their just share to make their bottom lines look better. Heres hoping we in TX see a grass roots ground-swell of righteous anger and fury that our fellow Americans in WI have engaged in when it comes to recalling their leaders in state gov..

• We really need to get past the idea that society somehow owes people health care when those people have not chosen to allocate their resources in a way that they can afford it. The people you describe as incontinent with dementia and no family are no longer adding value to society that would justify society paying for their care; their choice should be to either use their own resources to pay for care or be euthenized.

• No, James, it;s the human beings. Stupid.

• It's the spending, stupid.

• http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/inside-the-houses-brutal-budget I thought this helpful in this discussion. People don't care about immigration, until it's their nanny who is getting deported. People don't care about jail conditions until their college kid gets sent up for dwi. People don't care about elderly care, until their mom dad has dementia. We have to care for those unable to care for themselves, it's the measure of whether we are actually civilized or not.

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