Surprise! City's Plans for Low-Income Housing Overlooks North Dallas. Again.

Categories: Get Off My Lawn

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Tuesday the city council's housing committee will hear about 13 low-income housing projects being considered by city and state officials.

As usual, the dot pattern of the proposed developments looks like a case of municipal diaper rash, heavily concentrated in the city's southern regions. Six city council districts, mainly in the far north, lack any new low-income projects under consideration -- none, zip, zero, smooth as a baby's butt without the diaper rash.

The argument is always that you can't put low-income housing in the north because the property up there costs too much. Maybe. Every time I drive up that way, I sure see a lot of crappy-looking apartment complexes. If there was ever a time to put low-income housing north, it should be now, while values are depressed.

Then there's the one about putting people too far away from resources they need. Hey, the resource most poor people need is work. The retail and service businesses in the north seem to me like pretty good hunting grounds for hourly wage jobs. You're not going to tell me the jobs are in southern Dallas, are you?

Something weird happened when the city got out of the old Walker consent decree on housing. (It required the Dallas Housing Authority to put some low-income housing in white-people neighborhoods.) Dallas now funds a fairly massive effort at placing public and supportive housing out in the suburbs. And as you will see if you look at the map for the units to be considered Tuesday, we just can't put enough of that stuff in the southern part of the city. But somehow the effort seems to jump right over North Dallas.

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Click image to enlarge.
It's the affordable housing kangaroo. There it is in South Dallas, East Dallas and Oak Cliff. Now watch. One big leap. There he goes -- by golly, he's all the way up in Plano already. Right over North Dallas. Amazing.

The good news this time is that three units are being proposed in or near downtown, one by the Hamilton-Greenan team adjacent to their Atmos Project. Kudos.

I'm thinking of doing a goody-two-shoes project like that one they do over on the editorial page of The Dallas Morning News, 100 holes in the bucket or something, where they list every run-down building and burning trashcan in southern Dallas. I'm going to list every vacant building or undeveloped property I see in the north that looks like it could be home to a nice low-income housing project.

What should I call it? How about "100 Unlocked Doors"? Nice ring to it, what?


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68 comments
smiley
smiley

You're right, Jim, there should definitely be more crappy schools and crime in North Dallas. All those stinkin' white people need some diversity to liven things up a bit.

Annie Williams
Annie Williams

I lived for 12 years in a moderately-priced N. Dallas apartment complex. It wasn't the newest place on earth, but it was decent, well-kept up, and the rent was affordable for average middle class working people. I knew most of my neighbors and we looked out for each other. I felt very safe living there. The complex was, however, older, and eventually I guess they couldn’t compete with the shinier new places springing up all around us.

They went Section 8 and over the next two years, as vacanted apartments began one-by-one filling with Section 8 recipients, most of my neighbors of several years began moving out. Our nice, quite complex went to hell. There were unattended young children swimming in the pool at 2:00 a.m., blaring stereos in the parking lot at all hours, and all the cars in our complex were egged several times. I’m sure it had nothing to do with all the bored, unsupervised teenagers who had moved in. Things began disappearing off people’s patios and balconies. And there was the alcoholic couple around the corner from me who spent all day, every day, sitting on their patio drinking themselves into oblivion.

Maintenance both internal and external, became non-existent. Management took our rent and that was about the extent of the work they put in. My stove died and it took them over a month to replace it. That never would have happened before Section 8 took hold. The complex became pretty unlivable, but my rent, which was not subsidized by anyone, kept going up.

Fortunately, I got a better job with a better income, and so I moved to a more expensive, gated community a few miles away, mostly because I got tired of cleaning dried egg off my car and got fed up with once-caring apartment management that no longer gave a rat’s backside if the place was kept up. I’m still shopping at the same stores and eating at the same restaurants, but I don’t see any of those Section 8 former neighbors at those places. I’m not sure where they’re buying groceries but it must take them a bus ride to get there, because it ain’t up here. So much for cultural and socio-economic integration, eh?

quellepotat
quellepotat

YAWN, well here we go again. Low income housing is the Liberal dream and absolutely MUST be put in every upper middle class neighborhood ro succeed. (which hasn't occurred no matter what in the past 60 years--anywhere). Could the lack of success and upkeep possibly be due to the fact that the inhabitants have no personal stake in the success of the concept unlike others who actually toil daily to make the mortgage and tax payments? I'll believe the LIH premise when a project goes up in Clinton's or Soros' neighborhood and when Chelsea moves into one. DREAM ON.

Sick of Complainers
Sick of Complainers

Curious...anyone know how many are actually "employed" that live in the Low-Income housing? I'd possibly support it a little more. What are the w2's of those that live in the housing?I live between two low income housing projects and I'm guessing a max of 10% are employed judging by how many people are sitting outside on a weekday. Lets get that number up to 60% and then build more housing, in the meantime we should force the pill down the womens throats.

Yousuck
Yousuck

Typical naive white libtard "advocacy journalist" horse shit.

BJ
BJ

Anyone ever visit the neighborhood in North Dallas where the judge ordered the housing development some 2 decades ago? t did just exactly what the property owners there said it would and turned a once vibrant neighborhood into a war zone.

Montemalone
Montemalone

I hear Valley View has space available. Two birds, so to speak.

Jpgreenan
Jpgreenan

It's not just the land cost. If you can rebuild a downtown highrise as low income housing, then you can solve the land cost anywhere. The rules of the Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs give 24 points for neighborhood support. You can't get neighorhood support (except maybe for a senior project in a few places) in north Dallas. So you can't get tax credits in north Dallas.

So nobody tries. It's a waste of time and money. Until that rule changes, you won't see any projects proposed for North Dallas.

choraleboy
choraleboy

Who'd want to live up by W and his cronies anyhow? Blecchhh. NO THANKS. Give me South Dallas ANY DAY.

Edgar
Edgar

JS, you sometimes issue invectives against north Dallas and the way of life there. That begs the question: Why do you wish north Dallas upon poor people? Is your schadenfreude from exposing the rich to the poor people greater than your mercy upon our city's poor?

Oak Cliff Townie
Oak Cliff Townie

DART shouldn't be a part of the selection process....Its not like these folks were going to work anyway.....

CRA
CRA

@ JimS - good work Jimbo!!!!!!

This is the story of the decade(s), stay on it!!!!!!

cp
cp

I live in District 7. We have illegal halfway houses all around. And a bunch of "illegal campers", i.e. "shelter resistant homeless" at White Rock Creek adjacent to the liquor stores.... And one of these proposed developments in our hood, We just can't absorb that much more.

Meanwhile, my s/o's townhouse is between Richland College and Restland. There are so many of Jim's so-called "crappy-looking apartment complexes" over there that we don't have a prayer of ever selling that albatross of a condo because of the adjacent crime rate!

And guess what? There's not a grocery store in my neighborhood within walking distance, no service industry places, it is a veritable economic void over here... We look forward to visiting with our tenants at the townhouse in North Dallas because then we can go to the bookstore, eat a Chick-fil-A or Outback Steakhouse, shop at Sam's or the Super Target, get some coffee at a Starbuck's...... all things that we can't do here in our neighborhood.

Oh, but we CAN get us some affordable housing, buy a 40 and hop on a DART train.

rc
rc

JimMake sure you come to the Open Forum at Hitt Auditorium-Methodist Hospital, Thursday night at 7 pm. All three mayoral candidates along with Dave Neumann and Scott Griggs will be there.We can all ask the big three about this housing problem and at the same time watch Dave sweat. You see he learned his lesson last year and has not asked for any more low income housing. Let's ask 'Dastinky' where his request is. There will be a Q/A that should make for a interesting evening. See ya there.

BJ
BJ

If y'all are ever wondering why my city in the North doesn't join Dart or have a bus line, this is it.

JT
JT

I see a hole in the middle of North Dallas, could we put them there?

JimS
JimS

smiley: so you believe people are good and productive and make desireable neighbors because they are white?

scottindallas
scottindallas

This change probably accompanied a sale of the ownership or a change in the management. The problems you detail are while common to Section 8 they aren't necessary. Some Apts are well run, others aren't. That is the difference, not the program. Though I'd support a rent card.

I guarantee you many of those people are working. I don't know about rent, but to get food stamps or medicaid you have to show you're working and show bank records, bills, everything. This needs to be done every 6 months and becomes rather onerous.

An economist I like has suggested that what the federal gov't should do is hire. Hire entry level people to take the forms and file them. These are low cost jobs, what we should cut is the admin. positions at the top.

Truesense
Truesense

If this is what you believe about the Author, then why do you follow him so closely???

I believe your just a closet libtard, busting at the seems, just waiting to come out of the closet!!!

LHDude
LHDude

BJ, if you're referring to the Audelia Corridor, or Whitehurst just S. of Skillman, I totally agree. Back when I graduated from HS in 1979, that was the place to be before you "moved up" to the Village. Now it's a war zone, and most decent retail is gone.

scottindallas
scottindallas

That makes the Meadow Road a prime area for Senior development. JPG, do you have some insight as to what is coming in all those vacant lots? That would seem to be a perfect place with two hospitals right there and DART for the Support Credit you write of.

CRA
CRA

The public support points awarded by the TDHCA seems like a clever way to discriminate. Of course, all of your upper status neighborhoods are going to vote no, and stand in opposition. This rule needs to challenged, changed as unlawful, if we are ever going to have an integrated society.

IQ
IQ

Don't know about the rules. But, seems like the point of the article is that as long as the City (Council) continues to approve tax credit projects in South Dallas, people will continue to build there. If the City "just says no", don't you think that would cause people to get a little more creative (with political support from City) about building tax credits in North Dallas?

TimCov
TimCov

I have friends and relatives who live in section 8 and public housing. They all work. You need to drop the stereotypes.

scottindallas
scottindallas

You're full of it. There's a Walmart essentially one city block away, you have an Out Back a mile away, Island Burger. You have a wide assortment of Asian food, go try the Silver Spoon over on Belt line just North of you. That area has only filled in over the years, while the apts have deteriorated it's always been a car neighborhood.

Hi!
Hi!

I live in this area too, so I know what you mean about the apartments.

IQ
IQ

Check Natinsky's record on these housing issues; it's terrible. The voters need to know. He is no friend to Dallas' poor working class.

BOP
BOP

Great Idea, Ask Natinsky why there is no affordable housing is in his district???

"Shit, not in my neighborhood", also, "the Dallas Citizens Council wouldnt be there for me now that I am running for Mayor, if I would have let those blacks in our neighborhoods".

TimCov
TimCov

Tell that to Sunnyvale. They have no public transit and they are having public housing forced on them.

CRA
CRA

Bingo BJ!!! Very astute of you to identify the true reason.

Whodunit
Whodunit

Oh, you're talking about "the bubble"...........the Park Cities........University Park/Highland Park yeah, sure good luck with that!

quellepotat
quellepotat

Jim, Jim, get a clue. Too much violence yes. Too many educators and others on the public payroll with assault records, yes Too many liberals stuck in the sixties with bankrupt ideas which just don't work becuase of the constant liberal paradigm that one cannot examine the crime or character of the perpetrator if he/she is a protected miinority. (You are an angry man Jim--I'm not the one with a gun pointed at my readers)

quellepotat
quellepotat

i WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU ASK THE ELDERLY COUPLE WHO WERE RECENTLY ASSAULTED AT AN ARL. MALL FOOD COURT BY A MINORITY "EDUCATOR" ON A FIELD TRIP THAT QUESTION JIM.

Do something!
Do something!

please use "you're" and "your" correctly. And busting at the "seams." Geesh. DISD product?

BJ
BJ

Actually, I was referring to the Midway/GB Freeway area. Evidently it had the same effect.

Anonymous
Anonymous

In my experience Section 8 and public housing are giveaways for slumlords and developers. My anecdotal evidence trumps your anecdotal evidence...

IQ
IQ

Go TimCov, Go!!!!!

Bob
Bob

A. Although there is no low income housing, there is an increasing number of apartments in FND. And I would argue there are lots of lower income people living there.

B. I doubt Natinsky's record with the working poor of Dallas is going to resonate with voters.

CRA
CRA

Yeah, housing is being forced on them (Sunnyvale) by Mike Daniels, but there appears to be this massive sanctuary, called Dallas (right in their backyard), that Daniels and Julian are avoiding!!!! I wonder if has something to do with the Walker Housing Trust Fund of $30 million that they are feeding off of like leaches???

HHHHMMMMM.................

JT
JT

Think of it as the golden rule of development, don't develop for others that which you wouldn't develop for yourself.

JT
JT

Maybe the rule should be that the development is within one mile of the residence of the developer.

pbluett
pbluett

OOOOH quellevache! what a witty one that Jim is. His misogynist streak is always showing ,especially when he has a chance to attack DEAD ladies --like former mayors for example,(you know the article to which we refer, Jim) Jim appears to be the syncphancy driven" tete de lard "liberal dinosaur who has to perpetually discuss race--an obsession, one supposes. Take your thorazine, Jim, you will feel better.

JimS
JimS

quellevache: soooo ... too many black people are educators? Too many black people go to the mall? Too many black people on field trips? In food courts? Oh,no, I get it. Too many black people beat up old white people. Could be. But we have so may spares.

scottindallas
scottindallas

What you guys are missing is that Apts have a 50 yr life cycle according to standard appraisal standards. This is driven by tax policy to some degree, but it holds true enough. Those apts are now 40 yrs old. They are at the end of their functional life. Just as many even older apts on Gaston were host to a similarly undesirable renter. But, after investments that likely exceeded the value of the property they've gentrified the neighborhood, collecting more than twice the rents they were getting before. Your theories, sponsored by the Simmons and Koch bros. and other pseudo-libertarian billionaires are entirely self serving and never seem to explore their lucrative gov't contracts, many companies garner more than half their volume and value from gov't contracts. So, a true libertarian would first focus on the fewer larger examples of structural corporate subsidies, rather than the illegal activities of a few. I'm all for trying to structure subsidies where graft is minimized and supply and demand remains with the subsidized.

Food stamps are a great example, perhaps people should be given a credit card, similar to the lone star card that they can use to pay toward rent. This would keep "projects" to a minimum and people the freedom to live where ever they wanted. Actual demand would drive development, not (well intentioned, or not) central planning.

These issues aren't black and white. There are many functions that gov't can do more efficiently than the private sector, even beyond roads and fire. Sadly, we fall for caricatures of issues rather than investigating them. This serves special interest which drive legislation when the debate is so superficial. I know this is kind of a "thread killer" but your silly dismissals of a vital subsidy for people is killing this country. We're both left pandered to, and never do serious solutions get discussed, or voted on.

TimCov
TimCov

And that has nothing to do with whether or not the residents of low income housing work.

Oak Cliff Townie
Oak Cliff Townie

So what is it you folks want Low Cost housing Apts or homes that folks on the Bottom in come tier can afford on their own Or Subsidized RENTAL housing where the bottom tier income person pays a small amount and the housing authority kicks in the rest ?

If anything the present lack of housing for Lower income Tier and non working folks who need a roof over housing their heads Is a created shortage .

There have been at least 2500 to 3000 Units of Apartments Maybe more if you count Duplex's Fourplex & single family housing Bull dozed...wiped off the earth in Oak Cliff. Places where working class folks lived .Even some folks where "not working" but living on a Fixed income.And that is just the past few years.

Take a ride down on Ft Worth Ave to Colorado Blvd.Wide open spaces that were once 4 unit apartments Bought and Bulldozed by a Speculator who is long gone.The same on Davis East of Hampton .

While I don't think "WE" should tell folks what to do with their land "WE" tend to show more deference to wild life than humans when we allow folks to waltz in and GUT entire neighborhoods so they can revitalize the area to suit their way of living . Instead of first taking a close look at how it will effect those already there.

scottindallas
scottindallas

IQ, you make a great argument for MUCH higher top marginal tax rates, on incomes exceeding $2/mil/yr

IQ
IQ

Hey man, $30 Million is alot of money no matter how you look at it. Is it enough to buy someone's principles?? Probably so.

rc
rc

I loves me some JT

whodunit
whodunit

Those developers who really care about it wouldn't have a problem wth your idea. The others should not be trying to do it if they are not believers.

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