DART Says It Didn't Single Out Nontheists' Ad. It's Just Not Using Buses As "Public Forum."

By Robert Wilonsky Tue., Nov. 30 2010 at 12:22 PM

Categories: Transportation

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This morning we received this photo and the accompanying press release, which announced: "Godless Ads Go on Ft. Worth Buses December 1." That's per the Dallas-Fort Worth Coalition of Reason, which says the campaign is "designed to raise awareness about people who don't believe in a god." Maybe you'll recognize the name of the coalition's coordinator, Terry McDonald -- chair of the Metroplex Atheists, who'd planned last year to put up this billboard along Stemmons.

Busboard announcement aside, one thing about the press release stands out: McDonald's allegation that they wanted to run the ads in Dallas as well, but "when we approached DART, they chose to stop running all religiously-related ads rather than include ours." And so, to Dallas Area Rapid Transit Director of Media Relations Morgan Lyons we go.

"That's not entirely accurate," Lyons says when forwarded the release. "We made a decision over a year ago that we weren't going to sell ads to any religious group. ... We've been approached by these folks and others, and our position was we didn't want to get into creating a public forum with the public buses. Our core business is to operate buses and not to operate a forum for discussion, so we made a decision to step away from all religion-related or faith-based ads. That's the last we'd heard of 'em."

Every now and then, of course, DART comes under fire for its busboard policy. In '08, there was the ruckus over those Family Place ads. And last year it rejected a movie ad showing just a little too much panty. But if the Fort Worth Transportation Authority wants to run 'em, Lyons says, fair enough: "Transit agencies across the country take different approaches, and this is the decision we made over a year ago."

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An atheist is someone who does not believe in God or gods (see the dictionary of your choice). Not believing is not a belief; it's the absence of a positive assertion. (In the same way, empty space is not matter or energy.) This means the guy who says absolutely there is no god is an atheist, but it also means the guy who is an agnostic, saying "I don't know", is also an atheist (since, if you don't know, then you don't really believe, thereby fitting the requirements of the definition). That said, the signs message is simple, and directed at atheists, not theists. I'm not sure what some people are so offended about-- that we exist, that we think we're good, or that we have the gall to say so?
"I'm perfectly happy with DARTs decision. It's fair and it's a victory for secularism." And that's really the point of idiotic stunts like this that atheists pull every Christmas, it's not enough for them to not believe in God, they have to sneer at others beliefs as well. Selfish pricks is really all they are, they don't have a God so you shouldn't either. I'm agnostic myself and idiots like this is why i'm not an atheist, they're the PETA of religion, whiny attention whores that are good only for pulling douchebag stunts like this.
@skippy - but then you run into who decides what is right? With that logic you can say that I can do pretty much anything because "it's the right thing to do". And if you say the law, the law doesn't enforce that we must treat our "fellow humans with dignity and respect" @the atheism is not a religion argument - re�li�gion: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
@Handsome Lance The lyric from the song is: "...be good for goodness sake." The Atheists are saying: "Be good for goodness' sake." It's a play on words. A slight adjustment of the lyric. It asks people to be good for the sake of being good (good for goodness' sake), as opposed to being good simply to please a figment of the imagination (Santa), as the song suggests. It also makes a larger, but more sophisticated, point that Atheists in general are more moral because they treat their fellow humans with dignity and respect simply because it's the right thing to do. While Theists, of all creeds, do so in order to please their diety.
Question: Atheists say that there is no God as there is also no Santa Claus, but, when it comes to the question of where we as humans should derive a basis for our morality, why do they quote the 'Santa Claus Is Coming To Town Lyric', "..so be good for goodness sake?"
So if it's not a religious viewpoint, then why do they need to invoke the name of God to promulgate it? The signs don't say "Good With Humanistic Values and Reason," they say "Good Without God." So who the fuck is bringing up God here, exactly? Ain't me. It's Atheists. Atheism a philosophy that is largely framed in the terms of the culturally predominant belief system. It's siort of circular, or a conundrum or whatever, but there it is.
@Anon - again, agnostic here. I refuse to catagorically state that there either is or is not a god without empirical evidence one way or the other and, more to the point, I do not think it is possible to prove or disprove. You can "believe" there is no god all you want, but you can't prove it (if nothing else, it is a logical impossibility; cannot prove a negative and all that). Atheism is your "belief" system, like it or not. It is not a "proof" system.
I watched channel 4 news at 9 tonight (my wife goes to bed early and that is our "quality time", and the female anchor was so FoxNews like to Terry McDonald that I was SHOCKED! Is even local news on a Fox station becoming Murdochian? I guess so. I, as an independent, raised Catholic, and not agnostic, am disappointed in channel 4 for treating him that way via the anchor's own religious views! And it isn't because of my views. I just don't think the anchor should so readily reveal her views. What about the Muslims, Jews, Athiest, and Agnostics who watch that newscast? Not great for the ratings, I wouldn't think.
@Matt well said. @Anonamouse, what? I *do* know. I know in exactly the same way I know that a whale in a tutu won't fall out of the sky onto my head tomorrow. Does that mean I have faith in the no-whale scenario? No. It means I understand what is make believe. No one here (I think) is trying to convert you to non-belief. Please go on doing what makes you happy, just leave others alone in the same fashion. it's what makes [a small part] of the world great. As for Dart, I have no problem with their position as long as it really is evenly balanced. Use that rolling billboard space for important things like Victoria's Secret ads and divorce lawyers.
Being a non-theist is exactly that: Not Theist. You don't have to be religious to exist, and 'not being religious' is not 'being religious'. Unbelief is not belief. Atheism is not a religion.
It's easy for DART to say now that they don't want to create a public forum. Over a year ago they were accepting religious ads we asked them about placing a DFWCoR ad, thats when they decided they would change their policy. It's the only way they could legally reject our ad. I'm perfectly happy with DARTs decision. It's fair and it's a victory for secularism. The above statement is mine and not necessarily the opinion of the Coalition of Reason.
Sorry, Daniel, when it comes to politics, atheism isn't really comparable to anarchy. That's because accepting a universe without God, which is what atheists do, obviously, does not mean that atheists must also believe in a universe without order. In fact, atheists would argue, a universe without God is precisely what we already have -- and it seems mighty orderly. So, if atheism were a political party, it would hardly be anarchy -- the rejection of ALL order or authority. Ergo, if we keep the political metaphor, it'd be more accurate to say that atheism means not taking part in a system whose authority is not based on anything proven or agreed upon. Unfortunately, there's no convenient 'party name' for such a stand.
Maybe they can get rid of this stupid "had enough" ads I've seen on the busses? I don't remember seeing any religious ads on busses but if so abolish that crap as well.
oh crap I did spell atheist wrong. I blame it on a lack of coffee and coherence at the time.
If theists can't prove god doesn't exist and believe in Him via faith alone, then how can an atheist (better?) say anything more than he has faith in no god, unless they can prove His non-existence? The only logical standpoint re: supreme being(s) is to say "I don't know", and that goes for both sides of the coin. You can have all the faith you want, either way, but its still faith and its still a religious viewpoint.
I don't believe in god, because he doesn't believe in me. But I do believe almost none of you bastards know how to spell atheist. I will say as an "Atheist" it is nice to see some sign that not everyone in this town believes in magic fairy cloud people. Captcha can't sepll either... razent hemingway
To say atheism is not a religious viewpoint is like saying anarchy is not a political one.
@Anonamouse Atheism is not a religious viewpoint. That's like saying people that like steak are a type of vegetarian. To quote the late great Douglas Adams, it's not "don't believe in God", it's "believe God does not exist".
So the ads are "designed to raise awareness about people who don't believe in a god", huh? Sounds like a lame excuse for a really obnoxious ad. Captcha: attitudes porkets
Let's see... DART is funded with public tax money and run by the City government... Athiests are always bitching about seperation of Church and State... Athieisim, like it or not, is a religious viewpoint... So this Agnostic has to ask - what's the problem?
I'm as athiest as the next guy, and I just could care less about "nontheist" bus ads. I do, however, applaud DART for not selling ads to any religious/nonreligious group.
Thanks, Jerome. Never woulda guessed it.
Heads up: The link to the 'movie ad with too much panty' goes to the same story as the Family Place link. So now you know which important links I check out ...