If Nothing Else, Teachers Seem to Like DISD Tutor's Suggestion to Bring Back the Paddle

• Lets use the paddle like the other school districts!!

• Too bad they don't like him. Maybe its because he has a sexual assault charge.

• hahahah Maybe its because he has a sexual assault charge.

• June 29th 2010 New York Rep Carolym McCarthy and 17 other reps filed a bill in congress to do a Federal Ban on Paddling. Only states allow it and those are the only places in the world that do.The united States is the last country to allow. Teachers/principal aren't train and aren't license to discipline BY LAW all they can do is teach ACadenics which they don't want to do any more. Schools rules are so out of touch with the real world. Rep.Carolyn McCarthy is getting major support for her bill, www.thehittingstopshere.com www.nospank.net just look at what teachers/principals do to kids.

• m&m says: An eye opening experience to actually visit a classroom and observe for a day- to gain more of an insight- do it for a month. I am fixing to enter into my student teaching semester...if I could go back I would not have chosen to "teach" because teachers are abused by students- and we have to take it, over and over again. However, I love kids and want to serve them by being the best teacher and mentor possible- do some of you realize how much abuse teacher's have to take in the classroom? Disrespect that can be considered mental abuse in the worse way, outbursts from students, etc. and at the cost of all of the other students who want to learn. Not to mention how frustrating it is to meet the multiple demands of ths position... Yes- some (probably) most of these kids who act out have emotional problems of one kind or another- and these students are treated fairly in MOST cases- the last resort is a paddling. It boils down to that there are many instances that these kids do what they can get away with- spankings do help in with just plain out REBELLIOUS and hateful kids who try to control what goes on in the classroom. There is a place for administering corporal punishment but I think it does have to be in coordination with the parent/parents or guardians and should be the last step in working with a student. This last step for most teachers provides consequences for these type of students who need a reason to respect the teacher- not because we are perverted? Yikes... that is perverted thing to suggest. The training that goes into being a teacher...I have struggled to get through it all...and we need the support of the parents. Do you ever think your kid deserves a spanking for being out of control and hateful if for no other reason than he/she feels they have the right to? You parents are part of the problem for them and us, their teachers. Your kid can do no wrong, right? We don't spank for perverted reasons wierdo's... What are some of you thinking here- I think for some of you to suggest such things- maybe you are the real perverts! Also- there is not exuse for these teachers who abuse this power and resort to spanking out of rage or laziness- that is just being a bad person in general. They should not be protected and do not represent the majority of teachers- just like perverts do not. Lay off the teachers...we want what is best for your kids- that is why we have chosen this profession- support your local school- volunteer- know what you are talking about further- like I said- I had no idea what teachers' were up against...wow. Help us help your community and understand that we need ISS, after school detention, counseling, extra time out, one-on-one tutoring, care, and yes, at times, corporal punishment. volunteer in your school- we don't get paid for all of this trouble- it is so not worth it if I didn't really care about your kids!!!!!!

• The best schools in America don't paddle.

• In this day and age I'd think that teachers would be afraid of students seeking reprisals after the fact. How often do we hear stories of kids bringing guns & knives into school? And if the school has metal detectors the kid could just wait outside. And if he doesn't have a gun then a baseball bat or other weapon would work just as well.

• Mr. Gilbert's idea is truly perverted. Shaming young adults doesn't solve anything in the long run and only creates more emotional garbage to be dealt with in the future. It is a disturbing idea. Giving principles that kind of power is creepy and they might take advantage of it. It's disgusting, Mr. Gilbert should be ashamed of himself.

• Spanking is for consenting adults only. The amount of evidence that proves that hitting kids is useless is beyond reproach. A larger person hitting smaller person to get their way is simpy being an ignorant bully. Leave the spanking fetish to those adults (most of us) that enjoy it and educate kids properly. Don't mix your kinks with your kids,,, ever.

• If he does this, he needs to be charged with assault and battery and cruelty to minors. If the courts are unwilling to prosecute, the students should take matters into their own hands: hold him down and beat his ass until it's bloody. This man is a filthy pervert and sadist and should be barred from being within 5000 feet of schools. Also, look how poor the grammar is on his website. Pathetic and disgusting.

• @John on a Carphone The worst of the worst eventually land at a DISD alternative school in south Dallas. I believe it's called Village Fair. From what I hear, you wouldn't want to paddle any of those "students".

• That would actually make sense John, so it obviously will never be done. I'm sure if they tried it someone somewhere (most likely the parents) would sue the district on behalf of the suspended kid.

• So... can DISD expel kids anymore? I mean, if a kid is disrupting classes, intimidating students and teachers, and basically has no interest in getting an education, why not expel them for the sake of the kids who want to actually learn something?

• Bravo Scott, bravo and well said.

• Seriously, if you look at dogs, yes dogs they snarl, snap at and bite their kids. Dogs can be beaten like people so that it screws them up psychologically. But, I've never seen a dog that showed those signs from other dogs, only people. I am not aware of any studies that were done with serious rigor where mild spanking was occasionally used. I have seen studies that repute to make those claims, but under further scrutiny, those claims are opaque. I've gotten CPS called on me, twice for bruises or marks my kids gave each other, and once for a welt that I gave my son while chasing him with a towel. I've hit and hurt my kids worse in play than when I've spanked them. They never cry when we're playing but even a poorly delivered swat to the bare ass always elicits tears. I always explain why they are getting spanked. I do it calmly and cooly, the slow inevitability of it all makes it more effective. I reserve spankings for serious infractions only. I talk to them after, and comfort and hug them. Don't tell me there is no place for spankings. I only wish the physical blows I've taken in life were the worst ones. City hall, or a lawsuit can beat you down far worse than any physical blow. There IS no good study that shows that reasonable, occasional spankings are harmful. There is a difference between a beaten child and one who gets spanked occasionally. I have 3 children each are different. The two high energy children need the threat of "hotfire" the middle boy not so much. My youngest, my only daughter who we call a "bad cat" has gotten as many spankings as her older earnest brother. He's calmer, more mild, and a spanking is not really effective. To her and my oldest boy, it kinda knocks them back to normal. I always give them a warning that their behavior is leading to "hotfire." Until I finally spanked my 4yr old daughter, she was wild, and would play and try to manipulate the scene. Finally, if you don't think life delivers spankings now and then, you are a spoiled child. They aren't always physical, too often they are financial, emotional or whatever. It helps to learn to take blows to your dignity.

• I'm not 100% convinced that "paddling" kids will actually help, but will say that those of you who talk about how horrible this is, have no idea what its like to deal with inner city kids, and need to spend some time at your local inner city high school. My significant other teaches at an inner city high school, and they deal drugs, threaten teachers lifes of a whim, get in fights with each other every day ( in spite of the dozen security guards, and 4 real police officers who work security for the school ), shoot other, and more, all of the time. If you think you can reach a child like that, who openly says they will be dead or in jail before they are 20, with pop psychology, you need to get your head examined. Not everyone lives in the wonderful, suburban neighborhoods that it appears most of the cons of this proposal do. If you think you know it all based on your sheltered, limited experiences in this life, I challenge you to volunteer at an inner city school for a even a month, and then tell all of us here what you think afterwards.

• Ridiculously bad idea. Believe me, you start beating the current generation of students, there will be serious retaliation and escalation. If a teacher physically attacked my kid, I'd literally hunt him down and break his legs. Any threat to the safety of my children will be neutralized quickly and efficiently.

• Bob, DISD is Dallas Independent School District, and ISS is in-school suspension, I believe. We called it SASS way back when I was in high school, which stood for Special At-School Suspension, which was the same thing. As for paddling kids, we had corporal punishment back in the day, and I can't say it made the paddled kids act any differently. My husband got paddled plenty of times (with his parents' blessing), but he was (and is) still a smart-ass. He wasn't actively destroying school property or beating up other kids, but he wouldn't have been doing that anyway with or without paddling. He's a nice guy, in spite of his smart-ass tendencies. And yes, he was indeed smarter than most of his teachers, which is largely why he got in so much trouble at school.

• Fear is different than respect.We need to teach our children and adults more ...advanced way of dealing with problems besides violence.What happens when these children grow up and have problems with their wives/husbands or neighbors ? Spanking a child does not teach values or respect

• Would it have killed you to say what DISD and ISS mean?

• I wonder if this guy bothered to ready any literature about the negative affects of spanking, licks, or whatever you want to call corporal punishment. Generally, among psychologists, social workers, and mental health professionals, the belief is that this type of "discipline" is not the best for children. (And there is lots of research to back this up). Thank god I don't live in Dallas. I would never send my child to a school that endorses corporal punishment.

• No Bill, I'm not saying that, which is why I pointed out, I didn't favor corporal punishment. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I am saying that there is a real problem with out of control kids, and that should be dealt with in a serious way. Again, not with corporal punishment. I said in my first post I was not in favor of anyone hitting my or any one else's kids.

• I guess evidence that shows this type of punishment doesn't work is lost on everybody. Sure is easy to blame kids and hit them. There was a crime wave back in the 90's but kids today are committing less crimes and are less violent. Drug use has generally gone down so don't believe everything you see on TV. Check the actual gov't stats, this isn't something I am making up. Jim in Texas

• Well, I was in highschool 4 years ago and i will say, you can give them all the detention you want or make them stay in the sun, but there is no better deterrent than a good paddle to the ass. And when you break it down to them like this, the choice is damn weel clear... Do something stupid and wrong and get a painful connection made with ur ass... or don't do something stupid and uncalled for and go about your day pain free. There is definately a place for "Licks" the problem is when people in authority; teachers and principas start to abuse that power and give students that sort of punishment for things that sort of punishment won't help. For instance, student cant finish homeowrk on a day to day basis because the teachers give too much and don't look at how much the other teachers are giving the same class. Hitting them wont make them finish an absurd volume of work overnight. It might stop them from picking on students or vandalising schoo, property, but it wont make them study more or become more intelligent. And if a teacher hits a student because they think the student is 'disrespectfully' when all it is, is the student is smarter than the teacher and knows more.... well then that person shouldn't be a teacher.

• <i><i>In what other context is it considered ok for one person to hit or cause physical pain to another person</i> Well, besides the obvious case of self-defense, there's S&M...

• Yes, get in line, do what we say, be a sheep. Anyone for this needs to re-evaluate their simple lives and open their minds. You are probably a factory working who loves following orders and sticking to the status quo.

• Some of the paddling opponents here are assuming conditions not in existence for their alternative punishments/ classroom management. In a district with barely a 25% graduation rate, we can assume that there is widespread disrespect for teachers and education, and that for a significant portion of the student body, there is no discipline coming from home, nor is there any instruction to respect authority or value education. A great deal of the alternative disciplines require a heavily engaged set of parents who support the disciplinary actions of the teachers. I fear that too often you have the parent acting as a defense attorney, doing nothing to reinforce the need to behave at school.

• Syd/Nancy: "Brick and Mortar education is so 'Old School'." Teaching is not merely a matter of shoveling information into students, which they then regurgitate when test time rolls around. That, a computer can do. For all the other things that make up a real education we need real human beings teaching in real brick and mortar schools. Think back to the best teacher you ever had: Was he or she an IBM or a Mac? And Bill Holston: I hope you're not arguing that a paddling on the behind will prevent or even redress vicious assaults by students upon teachers. That's too silly even for what usually passes back and forth on this forum.

• all of this is just scary. thank God i'm not in high school anymore

• In what other context is it considered ok for one person to hit or cause physical pain to another person, never mind the obvious power imbalance. Teaching kids can be hard, but there are effective methods of classroom management and teachers out there that do not need to rely on such draconian methods. To resort to using pain as a punishment actually undermines the conditions necessary for children to learn.

• How about inspiring respect in them??? You shouldn't have to hit anyone to get their attention!!!

• If managing a classroom were done right, physically beating students would not be needed at all. Go back to college and learn to teach effectively Texas teachers!

• Julie, Texas Observer has this article this month. http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/too-black-for-school I've already said that I don't favor corporate punishment, but its fair to point out that teachers are assaulted by out of control kids all the time. There needs to be a real response to this.

• I was a teacher in DISD when they used corporal punishement and was there when they abandoned it. I saw no difference in student behaivor. It was always the same students receiving the paddling and they did not change one iota. Leave the beatings to the parents. Case closed. As a teacher I had great success with compassion. My rules were firm as were the consrquences for those who broke the rules, but I never sent a child to the office to be beaten. There are many ways to motivate a child. Hitting them on the butt was a very temporary fix. What would Jesus do indeed.

• I'll say that I probably went to the last high school that paddled their kids, and it didn't stop us from acting like numbskulls.

• <i>Research indicates that Corporal Punishment is harmful to children</i> ok... </i>and lowers their IQ's due to stress from fear</i> Please cite the study that "proved" this.

• The TRUTH is that school children are treated differently in our great nation based on where they live. A black middle school student in Texas DIED by having his chest crushed when his teacher sat on him to restrain him and ignored his pleas that he could not breathe, he died on the classroom floor in front of his classmates (this teacher is teaching in another state), a Texas high school student suffered deep bruising and welts to his lower back, buttocks and back of his legs when he received 21 "licks" with a wooden canoe paddle, which broke during the beating and had to be taped to continue the beating, a 9-year old Georgia 3rd grader suffered deep bruising injuries when he was paddled with a WOODEN PADDLE 3 TIMES IN ONE DAY (Decatur Co., GA affirmed Corporal Punishment Policy 9/17/09 for school children) and a Publicly Funded Charter School in Memphis, Tennessee physically punishes middle/high school boys and GIRLS weekly during a ceremony called "Chapel" by hitting them with wooden paddles and/or whipping their hands with leather straps IN FRONT OF ALL THE OTHER STUDENTS AS A DETERRENT to publicly induce shame, humiliation and fear! The school employees in the above actions have LEGAL IMMUNITY and are STILL paid by our tax-dollars to be ENTRUSTED with the care and education of our children! Research indicates that Corporal Punishment is harmful to children and lowers their IQ's due to stress from fear. People with SPANKING FETISHES work in occupations that give them access to children like hospitals, schools, boy scouts, etc. and over 2,500 teachers were punished in a 5 year period since 2000 for inappropriate sexual relations with our nation's school children, and women teachers are sexually preying on children at an increasingly alarming rate, which is why PHYSICAL/CORPORAL PUNISHMENT OF CHILDREN IN SCHOOLS MUST BE ABOLISHED IMMEDIATELY! Recently a La Vega, TX elementary school principal's arrest for injuries to a child due to corporal punishment put spotlight on school corporal punishment policies, already ILLEGAL in Schools in 30 States. It is ILLEGAL to beat prisoners. Our children are worth the effort to protect them and we must demand "Best Practices" that teach children "discipline" through non-violent practices in schools. Students must be taught why what they did was wrong and given the tools to improve behavior/decision making skills while empowering them with awareness to their human right to integrity of their bodies (hands-off!) in our schools and society. U.S. Congress Representative McCarthy plans to introduce legislation to ban paddling in schools nationwide. A hearing on �Corporal Punishment in Schools and Its Effect on Academic Success� was held on April 15, 2010 before the subcommittee on Healthy Families and Communities.

• Ignorelander, mow your grass. Lakewooder, sure buddy, whatever you say. BaconButt, right on.

• Brick and Mortar education is so "Old School". Teachers, curriculum, and classroom technology need to evolve to address new understanding about learning difficulties, in the classroom. This will take time, but I see the computer as a way the fuse the home and school learning environment, and hope it will invite allot more parental involvement. The paddle is soooo stupid and if you condone it in the classroom, then you are not stupid, just ill informed.

• In the interest of getting on the record on this one, not all of the teachers in Dallas ISD think this bringing this practice back is a good idea. All the arguments against corporal punishment have been made before, so I won't make them again, but consider the the "Vote NO" sign planted in my virtual front yard.

• Toots, to the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever asked that your comments be deleted from this forum. I mean, you gotta come to grips with the fact you do a lot of ranting and raving. Some of it [such as your claim that I'm hung like a squirrel] is actually quite entertaining, but Wilonsky recognizes stupidity when he sees it and deals with it accordingly, hence you're the one that occasionally gets deleted. Deal with it.

• i recall the last time my father used corporal punishment on me. He told me to 'go out back, and cut a peach switch and bring it here.' I was too young and did not know what a peach tree looked like, so I cut a switch from some shrub which was completely covered with thorns. I brought it to him sobbing in fear. He looked at me, and said, 'you don't think i'd hit you with that do you?' I said in my best trembly alabama boy voice, 'yes sir.' He did not have the heart to do it, and I don't think ever spanked me again. I was never paddled at school, where it was certainly used without restraint, because the threat from home was sufficient to keep me and my brother well behaved. I used, rarely, an occasional swat with my kids, when they were little, reserved for things like safety and to enforce time out, if they tried to get up. I think it was okay, but in hindsight wished I hadn't used it at all. I did not favor and do not favor anyone else laying a finger on my kids or anyone else's kids. I do not think it will do any good, in the absence of strong parental involvement. In the absence of that, we're left with things like ISS, just to get the kids from disrupting the education of other children.

• <i>They had the paddle drilled full of holes to decrease air resistance...</i> The worst I ever heard of was called The Red Heifer by the students at an all black high school. It was a thick piece of red leather that must have really hurt.

• Not only is paddling ineffective, it's not administered fairly. Watching the principal whack black kids' bottoms was like something out of the KKK. And that was 1987. Corporal punishment taints everything it touches.

• <i>I don't wanna spank Toots kid. I just wish she'd think [and read] before she starts yappin' like a chijuajua.</i> Ain't gonna happen. Not now. Not ever. Not in any capacity, in any place in Space or Time. This is simply impossible beyond all known Celestial realms of being impossible. Well, at least it isn't very likely.

• I got spanked at home and paddled in school. and I do not have rage, I have not rebelled or anything else bad. I am sane and productive member of society. But, I deserved every spanking I got, and I knew it. However, I will say that paddling in schools will not do anything to improve student behavior (especially older students). Discipline has to come from the rearing of the child, not from adults who are handling 30+ other children at the time. Corporal punishment must be the last resort, not the first. Do they even have detention any longer? The last I heard, they only have in school suspension. ISS means nothing to these kids because they already have to be at school. Having to stay late and/or come in on Saturday would mean a lot more to them.

• This is one of those rare occasions where I agree with Toots. When I got paddled in school, I remember that even at that age, I knew instinctively that there was something very wrong and creepy about it. And for me at least, the fear of my parents finding out that I had done something wrong was a far more effective deterrent to misbehaving than anything the school could threaten me with. When the parents can't be bothered to raise their kids properly, the schools are fighting a losing battle.

• I was avoiding Lakewooder because every time I make him look like an ass he tries to get my comments deleted. Total crybaby with a nut sack the size of a peanut. About as tough as Bobby Jindal while posing as a hipster in a Hawaiian shirt eating the slop at the Char Bar. Good Day.

• The comments from pro-paddlers suggest to me an unseemly eagerness. If not to you, well, then...

• CP, I agree with you that this isnt a perfect world. But, I also understand that teachers are paid(poorly IMHO) to teach, not hand out punishment. My opinion is that parents need to be the disciplinarian of their own children, not the school district. Also, many times the parties who decide to give kids a few "pops" fail to take into account the problems behind the issue, which can be anything from the kid being a rotten cuss to an actual psychological issue. Im of the belief that, once again, some of these "parents", especially those in the DISD, need to be less involved in their "private scene" more involved with their offspring. If its previous, handle up at home. If its the latter, get them the help and meds they need, I should know, I was one of those kids who got licks and I didint know why. My parents gave a damn and got me to a shrink, who helped me at a young age determine I had issues with depression, which caused me to act out. I got them help and its made me a more productive member of society

• &#64;Heya I don't wanna spank Toots kid. I just wish she'd think [and read] before she starts yappin' like a chijuajua.

• Who said they're "eager"? I see people saying they think it's necessary, but no one saying they're eager, seems like you might be projecting your fantasies onto others.

• I actually went to W.H. Gaston, wonder if he got the paddle from Mr. Green or Mr. Lester like i did? They had the paddle drilled full of holes to decrease air resistance and you always got paddled in front of other students to increase the embarrassment. It stung like a son of a bitch and it didn't matter how tough you were it made your eyes water.

• Stick by your guns, Daniel. There IS something perverted in this eagerness by strangers to paddle little kids' bottoms. One wonders what's really behind it. One need not be a Freudian to make a shrewd guess or two.

• Toots, Chris doesnt want to spank your kid, Lakewooder and Lemming do. Im With Chris on this one, parents need to be better role models. Spanks and Paddles will just foster rage and rebellion, especially if theyre one of the ones being targeted as a "bad apple"

• Lakewooder, Okay, I take it back, that was uncalled for. However, the man don't have enough facility with the English language to be tutoring children.

• Chris, spank my kid, I dare ya. As a matter of fact I'll spank your ass if you do. Beating up a child does no good.

• The only paddle equipped person in Dallas should be Schutze. Maybe Wilonsky when Schutze out of town but he'll need a permission slip!

• Jason's recollections are how I remember my junior high and high school days, too. The swats were over quickly and by the time you got back to class, it was over. Detention sucked because it was more hours at school and less time hanging out with friends. I stayed out of trouble because I didn't want detention or ISS, not because I was afraid of a few seconds of pain.

• cvd- we don't live in a perfect world, and DISD and its kids and its parents are far, far, far away from it. Walk down the halls at Hood Middle School for five minutes and you will take back everything you just wrote.

• I think I've found their spokesman: http://www.dallasblog.com/200710021000560/dallas-blog/caraway-wants-paddle-back-in-schools-committee-briefed-on-reverse-911.html

• You have to love the "spare the rod, spoil the child" crowd, as they seem to love putting their hands on other peoples kids and love taking the "easy route" as they dont realize children, like adults, are creatures with different emotions and states. My take on discipline w/ kids is this: If you're a responsible parent, you handle up properly at home. My 8 yr old nephew, whos about the best behaved kid I know doesnt get "licks" or "swats" as they called them at either school/home. My sister and bro in law taught him for an early age whats right and whats wrong, how to address people that are his elders and instill in them how to be a functional, yet creative member of society. The real crux here is the parents, most of these kids in the DISD come from absentee homes where the "mom" (I use that term loosely, BTW)is both parents, since the dad has split or is knocking some other broad up with his brood. What many of these kids need is both strong male and female role models, who can teach them how to act like they have some sense, as well as not acting like their "friend", but as a parent and authority figure.

• When I was a kid, we had swats and detentions. All the kids I knew chose swats because they were over quickly. Getting a detention was always much worse. Can't see the bringing back of corporeal punishment as making a difference on the attitudes of the kids. I think they're grasping at straws.

• &#64;lakewooder "Whoever coined the term "spare the rod, spoil the child" never stepped foot in a public high school." Actually the quote is dead-on Lakewooder, when the rod is spared the child is spoiled...We had licks in Highschool available for anyone that was dumb enough to need them..and I had them twice, can't remember what for now..but I don't rememeber any friends getting them more than twice..and everyone graduated and lived happily ever after.

• &#64;Daniel Wow, so in your book, paddling = perv? I don't know where you went to school but at my high school, paddling had nothing to do with perversion and everything to to with meaningful consequences. And guess what? It worked. The current method of punishment [ISS] is a joke. Kids don't fear ISS but they do fear getting their ass paddled. Whoever coined the term "spare the rod, spoil the child" never stepped foot in a public high school.

• All the talk don't mean crap, huh? Learn standard English, Mr. Gilbert the DISD Tutor Man, and keep your God damned hands off my children. Perv.

• put the ass in assistant principal bring back the paddle

TotalComments: 67