Convention Center Hotels in Fort Worth and San Antonio Slashing Rates to Fill Rooms

• Step One is the hotel. Step Two is the casino. But how will the city sell that to the churches in South Dallas? Give them each an equity stake? Make every croupier a deacon?

• Steve = James Maybe you could throw a 'Jason' in there for good measure? <i> I'm just glad Dallas is finally becoming a "Can Do" city again!!</i> Did Ned Flanders write the Steve / James posts? Puke. "How doodley-do, neighbor! Say [nervous laughter], Homer? Gosh golly, do think you could help me distribute some of this walk around money to the good descendants of St. Peter in certain sectors of our fair city?"

• Steve, I am a native Texan, grew up in Houston, went to school in Austin, have worked all over the state in the Country Club industry (East Texas, deep West Texas, panhandle) and have lived here in Dallas for 25 years. Never have I seen a city so mired in good ol' boy, deep pocket, racist politics...except, maybe, for Chicago. But here's the deal...people DO "vote with their feet". Know why DISD don't have no white kids in it? So, your petulance, notwithstanding, I can either fight the hotel AS IT IS FINANCED, try to change the financing (because I think we DO need a hotel), or move. Unfortunately, it's nearsighted coat-tail hoppers like yourself who just don't get the big picture. So keep up your rah-rah but I'd keep one hand on my wallet if I were you.

• So steve... If the hotel is built... exactly WHAT would the people coming to the convention do downtown.... the west end... deep ellum?? Are you kidding, those places are dead... Victory park?? Uptown?? You still need to get there from the hotel... My point is, that if you build it, you STILL have to go somewhere else to DO anything!! So why build it... You have a big hotel without any close proximity to attractions, and close to the LARGEST homeless center in the city.. oh yeah gonna leave a great taste in the conventioneers mouths when they see all the panhadling and stuff going on... There are so many deceptions and false statements made by the backers of the hotel, that I'm not even sure it will be built!! The people WILL see this for what it is... another good 'ol boy project to keep the rich, richer... and the working class folks confused as to what their tax dollars are being spent on. and BTW .. Flav-R-aid or Kool-Aid... it still is gonna leave a sour taste in some folks mouths when this is over... ww

• &#64;Steve TravisDad works in the Bank of America Building in downtown Dallas and in the last three years has had to (1) dodge derelicts shitting on the sidewalk in order to get to my car (2) been panhandled an average of three times per week (3) been physically acosted twice and (4) had my car vandalized four times (5) have seen at least one arrest per week in the five minute span it takes me to cross the street to my car (6) am NOT reassured by the Dallas Police Cameras recently mounted on every corner and (7) cannot find anything do DO here after 5:00 p.m. Do I want Dallas to be successful? Yes. Do I want to personally guarantee the profitability of the hotel through increased taxes? NO! Yet that is exactly what you are asking me to do!

• James: Thank you for the encouragement. It seems that those who know the least speak the loudest these days. I do live in Dallas. I do pay taxes. I did vote. I work in the Hospitality Industry, too. Apparently being informed and concerned about one's industry is "drinking the Kool-aid" to some. Actually, Flav-R-Aid was the drink at Jonestown, WW. The Dallas Convention & Visitors Bureau confirmed the room-nights booked during the latter part of the election. DudeRider: What city needs such fair-weather friends? You don't get your way, so you stomp your feet and move? I'm here because I love the city that my grandparents lived in, politics notwithstanding. Branden Helms: "The vote no group, funded by some of the biggest business players and non-average Dallas citzens, could hardly be qualified as grass roots. Together, they have much more than Crow." ****Thanks for making my point. Vote No was an enormous coalition of organizations and people. Harlan Crow was/is one dude with deep pockets who wanted things his way and provided the lion's share of the cash to persuade people...and failed, after out-spending Vote No 5 to 1. No points awarded. It's fortunate that the people who know how much Dallas, Downtown and elsewhere, has to offer are largely visitors. But it's sad that too many of the people who live here and complain aren't better informed. I'm wondering if TravisDad works in Ft. Worth. I see no reason to address the seemingly masochistic desire that the sore losers here have for the hotel to fail. Most of what is presented here is uninformed and speculative. Get back to me when you've got a real issue, guys. Feh.

• Information provided by DCVB is grossly distorted. DCVB cited bad stats to convince the city that a convention center expansion was necessary. As soon as the paint was dry the mantra for an attached HQ hotel was started. "We can't book events without the hotel". Vet any claims you see from DCVB very very carefully. They lie with impunity.

• Thank you, Branden Helms, for providing a cogent, concise analysis of this boondoggle. Does using "boondoggle" make me a naysayer? Do Steve and James pay property taxes in Dallas? Will either one of them attempt to refute Branden's post--Steve with more misinformation or James with more platitudes?

• <blockquote>Steve, do you even live in Dallas?</blockquote> All the Steves I know live in Sunnyvale.

• Long live the Dallas Hotel.

• Steve, keep up the good work! Despite the naysayers, I still see SOOOOO much misinformation posted on here. I'm not sure very many of these people actually did the research. I'm glad that a majority of the Dallas citizens could see past the negative ad campaign and the continuous posting of statements that just aren't true!!

• Steve says: "the grass roots Vote No coalition still prevailed" "since the hotel is going to be financed by revenue bonds, no one's tax money has been spent" 1) The vote no group, funded by some of the biggest business players and non-average Dallas citzens, could hardly be qualified as grass roots. Together, they have much more than Crow. 2) The HVS study in question said the hotel will break even at $209 a night and have an average occupancy of 68% on 1,200 rooms. That would be 297,840 room nights a year from this hotel. Since the price tag hasn't changed for the project, but the rooms have been lowered from 1,200 to 1,000, this hotel, at a 68% occupancy, will generate only 248,200 room nights a year, leaving it 49,640 room nights a year shy of breaking even. Using the $209 room average, it will be $10,374,760 short a year. If the hotel will break even at 1,000 rooms, using the HVS study the city pointed to as proof this is a viable project, then the hotel will have to have an occupancy rate of 81.6%. Currently, downtown is sitting at an average of $150 a night with an occupancy rate of roughly 55%. There are roughly 5,500 rooms in downtown now. That translates to 1,104,125 room nights a year. To break even, the hotel would need to generate 21% of the room nights with only 15% of the available rooms (not likely given its isolated location). If this hotel gets built, it will up the total to 6,500 hotel rooms downtown. At current occupancy rates (that in and of itself may be a stretch), the hotel would generate only 200,750 room nights. If that happens, then the hotel is in the red by $20,291,810 a year. So, using HVS' numbers show a deficit, and using current downtown numbers show a deficit. It doesn't matter if revenue bonds are used if the revenue doesn't cover the bonds. That $50 million reserve is a misnomer too. If one cent is taken from that account, it has to be paid for immediatelty from the general fund. So, if this hotel is in the red, even by a little, it will be up to the general fund, and therefore the taxpayers, to fund the difference.

• &#64;steve: I dont know about you... but paying $209 a night for a hotel that's attached to the conv. cntr. it a bit pricey. With all of the economic downturn, do you really think that the conventioneers will pay that?? Even so, the hotel isnt even built yet, and already they're booked up??? Don't make sense... But Steve... keep drinking the kool-aid, someday the taste will be really sour... ww

• "Only if the hotel is a catastrophic failure (say it sits empty for three years) will tax dollars even be in jeopardy." Other than not being at all true, that's a wonderful thought. Any time the hotel fails to at least break even, taxpayer money will be used to make up the shortfall. According to the city, the failure doesn't have to be catastrophic. If the convention center hotel does only as good as the current Dallas downtown average, it will lose money and have to dip into taxpayer funds. And that's what the pro-hotel people were saying (only reluctantly admitting the part about taxpayer funds being required to make up the shortfall), not the "doomsayers".

• I voted against the hotel. I haven't so wanted to be wrong since I voted against the Trinity tollway.

• Steve, do you even live in Dallas? And of course as soon as the city sells bonds Dallas taxpayer money will be at risk in the $50 million bond repayment guarantee fund.

• Steve, I'm getting tired of people referring to those 400,000 room nights already booked. Can you point us to some evidence of this, other than the Mayor's word? How can you book a night in a hotel that doesn't exist?

• Would be interesting to look into this more. It looks like the Ft Worth convention center is discounting on weekends. That's not quite as bad as during the week, since that's probably when most conventions are held. Still, if they haven't had to do this in the past, it shows that the market has weakened considerably. The San Antonio hotel appears to be discounting all week - not a good sign. But like previous posters have said, this still indicates that we can get a 5.5% bond package through. And that's an uphill battle right now.

• My family of 4 spent the night at the "4-diamond" Worthington in Ft. Worth two weekends ago for less than $200 (with breakfast and $25 amazon.com gift card included). We spent the evening walking the downtown area: water gardens, bookstores, live music in the parks, street entertainment and ate at the famous Reata for less than $80 for the four of us. Next day we spent at the Stockyards. What a great "staycation"! Clearly Dallas has NOTHING similar to offer downtown visitors at night - hotel or no hotel.

• &#64;Steve Not whining about the vote--just saying that I will move from Dallas before I have to pay taxes WHEN the hotel fails...first white flight, now tax flight. Hope ya' got deep pockets there Steve...

• Lakewooder: It's sad that you voted based on a tertiary issue. The real issue was that Dallas couldn't bid on an estimated 100 or so conventions per year until we had an attached convention center hotel. Notably, many of these conventions WANTED TO COME TO (OR BACK TO) DALLAS and have, in fact, booked their conventions at the new hotel. 400,000 room-nights now booked and more on the way. That little bit of news doesn't appear in one of the sore-loser posts here, naturally. Sorry, Doomsayers!

• Speaking of people being confused by facts, since the hotel is going to be financed by revenue bonds, no one's tax money has been spent. Only if the hotel is a catastrophic failure (say it sits empty for three years) will tax dollars even be in jeopardy. So why not whine IF it happens, since it hasn't and probably won't. Theoretical complaining is soooo tedious. DudeRider: If losing by 2,095 votes is the best Vote Yes could do after spending almost $7 million on the campaign (again, 5 times what Vote No spent) and, let's see, you still lost, what is really left to brag about? I suppose it's too much to ask that those who lost to wait until the possibility of failure is even in the air. Had Vote No lost, I wouldn't be here sounding off about coulda-shoulda-woulda. Vote Yes demanded an election. We paid for that election to happen. Vote Yes lost. Much ado about bupkis.

• Uhh Steve, have you checked the market for those bonds? Prediction: we will have downtown trolley service before the trinity river thing is addressed or the convention center hotel is built. Caveat, perhaps all will be addressed in an omnibus bond package backed with a 1/4 cent sales tax increase.

• If the hotel we're building is cheap, I'd hate to see what an expensive one would cost. And the lower rates are reason for concern. The HVS study showed Dallas' hotel needing an average room rate that was $40-$60 higher than the average room rate collected by many competing convention center hotels. I assume the belief was that the average rates would continue to rise and that everybody would be at roughly $209 or so when Dallas was. But if rates are falling now, then it's not altogether unlikely that rates won't grow as quickly as they need for Dallas' hotel to break even when it opens. I guess it's good to know that no taxpayer money will be used for the hotel, though, even if the revenues fail to cover the expenses. Unless all those pro-hotel ads were inaccurate (surely not, though).

• &#64;Steve Those opposed to a city funded hotel were decidedly against this proposal for a very simple reason. Similar, dare I say exact projects in other cities have failed miserably. Downtown Dallas needs to get a life.... and when that happens, people will want to spend time there. You can build a big pretty hotel anywhere, but if it isn't surrounded by a thriving entertainment district, guess what?

• I'm with Steve on this one... Just because you lost doesn't mean you can assume that everyone that supports the CC Hotel is a complete moron. Now that the Vote NO side won, I can only sit back and smile at people like Dude, Tom L and Jean. I'm just glad Dallas is finally becoming a "Can Do" city again!!

• Dude, Just 2,095 votes separated the two sides after the final tally. 41,287 of us (49%) don't want this boondoggle. It is a narrow majority but it's not a friggin' mandate! Being a good sport is not what this is about--it's about not having MY taxes used to bail out this POS in 3 years!

• Steve, I'll never be a good sport about the government wasting my money. Just because it's inevitable doesn't mean I have to take it silently.

• This is just more evidence that it is wise to build a convention center hotel in Dallas while the economy is in a downturn. It will be cheaper to build now and when it opens in a couple of years, we will likely be experiencing recovery on all fronts. In response to Jean Valjean, some people are born bad losers. Outspent 5-to-1, the grass roots Vote No coalition still prevailed. Suck it up! The voters had their say. Will there be two years of whining or can we close ranks and support the will of Dallas citizens? Very apparently, a majority didn't think that the largely Crow-funded Coalition represented "facts, numbers, statistics, and general honesty." Y'all lost, Jean and Sam. Try to be good sports about it.

• I hope Dallas raises the taxes on Douchebaggery to pay for this flop. "This is Our City." Good, you won't mind the extra cover surcharge at Ghost Bar to help pay for "your city's" Titanic sized goof.

• Now why are you confusing people with facts? As the last two special elections have shown, Dallasites will not stand for facts, numbers, statistics, and general honesty! Say something like, "Dr. Sanders looked me in the eye and I am fairly confident that the Corps has signed off on going forward since we must go forward because doing nothing is not an option, yet we must fight the enemies of progress with my big giant hands."

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