Last night's Passover seder no doubt kept some of you from attending the Dallas Tea Party planning session in advance of next Wednesday's rally in front of Dallas City Hall, scheduled from 5 to 9 p.m. -- and, do note, the time's been changed as the group says it's "been notified that a national news show will carry the event live at 9 p.m." But there's video from the packed prep get-together after the jump, during which WBAP-AM host and event MC Mark Davis offers a sneak peak at what to expect from folks protesting "obscene taxation from people who are our elected representation." If the turnout last night was any indication, those Henry Moore sculptures could have plenty of company.
I don't disagree with you one bit. I deeply wish we had a debate. It seems both parties are sold out, we prefer to bail out corporations rather than let them fail, refuse to, as you say analyze our social services.
I know that historically the first retreat for those in deficit is to inflate the currency. I think that is what we've done, and perhaps had to do. However, as you point out or substantial social obligations, (which are stimulative and generally a very good thing) are not fixed obligations but increase with/ahead of inflation.
That means there are no easy fixes. I believe that the Federal Reserve will ultimately default on our debts. When that happens we will have a chance to reorganize our financial system and may see a general default of the nation state.
That may sound fantastic, but it seems to me that the multiple layers of debt local, state and federal may find us organized around economic regions. Perhaps Texas survives, but smaller states may be overpowered
Scott, I think these are all admirable ideas that could be debated in Congress, but I'm afraid that without the balanced budget, there is no prioritization and thus no debate. Why debate the merits of a program with the opposition when you can simply write a check and let it be done. Unless congress is forced to choose which spending route is best, the public interests will never be served, and at least half the country will feel alienated at any given time.
I don't know about you, but in the face of spending that has occured this decade, I feel helpless to stop it (Republicans are as much to blame for failing to prevent trillions in future social security and medicaid obligations, which as far as I can tell, still haven't gone away and dwarf current bloated budgets in congress. Of course, Democrats were happy to allow these obligations as well). I honestly believe that we cannot afford the amount of spending that is currently going on in Washington, and that it will wreck our creditworthiness with the world.
Litmus, I want to see national healthcare, I want the Federal Gov't to subsidized college degrees, maybe even something with service to off-set debt. I'd like to see the school day extended to all day, maybe the academics take a powder after 3:30 but maybe electives could take on new meaning. I'd like this to be voluntary, but it would help parents and probably not cost anymore than our childcare subsidy. Finally, I'd like to see the Pentagon budget drastically cut, why do we have a standing Army?
I'd like to see many other programs done away with. I think I'd like to see the FDA disbanded, and return to simple product liability. You knowingly make people sick, you're culpable. If you're neglectful and should have reasonably known, you're liable. I'd like to kill farm subsidies for agribusiness and encourage conventional gardening practices.
Despite the fact that I want to help fund college, I'd be willing to consider cutting the Dept. of Education as well. I'd like to bring the Federal Reserve under the Dept. of Treasury. Since we guarantee them anyway, we appoint judges to be insulated from politics, why can't we appoint economic governors the same way, and the booty comes back to us, not a private corporation.
So, in my mind there are places I'd like to see gov't enter, which would either result in investment in our people (college $ for those who qualify) and by offering single payer health-care which would save the larger economy as much as 5% of GDP.
I think a balanced budget is an important principle to follow, but we have more real troubles than a balanced budget currently. We have a completely corrupt media and politicos.
You know, nobody answered the question:
Is anybody really happy with government spending?
Seems to me like most people aren't outraged with the amount, but rather what's being bought. Liberals fussed about 'out of control spending' during the Bush years, most likely out of the frustration that money was being spent on a war that they thought was better spent on entitlement programs. Who could forget Nancy Pelosi's speach to congress upon the passage of the first stimulus package slamming Bush's out of control spending?
Now conservatives are outraged at having to pay for people (main street, wallstreet, both) who have made poor financial decisions or witnessing the scale back or defunding of our military.
Personally, I plan to protest because runaway spending has been a problem in our country for quite some time. I am frustrated at Republicans for claiming to be a party of fiscal responsability, and upon obtaining control of 2 of the 3 branches of govt, do absolutely nothing (to cut spending, reform social security, reduce govt waste etc). I am frustrated at Democrats for not realizing that we cannot spend our way into prosperity (I don't think this tact worked well for the Bush administration either). I think most people are aware of what would happen if the govt gave every citizen a check for 1 million dollars.
Basically, I'm tired of the partisan BS that has lead to a death spiral of spending one-upsmanship. And I find it comforting to know that there are at least a few people who see things my way.
<i>Am I the only one bothered by the co-opting of Jesus for a political debate?</i>
That's what the Right Wing have done, and it's their strongest "bullet-proof" tactic...
What's the record for posts in a thread? Are we there yet?
Look It Up?
Really?
I know that if you compared the ills the British empire inflicted on these colonies to what we do the world over, we really look fussy.
Read the Declaration of Independence and the specific grievances listed at the bottom, we are doing the same things in other lands.
Are we getting close to a record? What's the record?
Whew! Got so involved in the comments I forgot to watch the video.
"Chairman Maobama" t-shirts? And I'm supposed to take these clowns seriously?
If you would remember your American history, the Boston Tea Party was a reaction to a TAX CUT on tea by the British Parliament. That meant the British merchants could sell tea in America cheaper than the smugglers (John Hancock) could bring it in from China. You can look it up.
Am I the only one bothered by the co-opting of Jesus for a political debate?
I agree with Toots.
100?
I'd rather hang my nuts over a meat grinder. Its all bullshit. Like anything will really change.
So, I guess you all will be at the tea party.
lol hell, who knows, I'm glad you got my point.
To Anonymous: I totally agree with your closing sentiment regarding apologies, but I do believe it's the "Axis of Evil," not "access" - Maybe it's your spell-check to blame here, but, just lookin' out for ya! ;)
Listen, I am a fan of Austrian Economics, but they don't deal with the complexities of our life.
There is not a free market and that is it, there are 3 markets.
The first is free, the state has little to do with this market, here the customer is always right. Gov't should, and does stay out of this market.
The next is the professional market. Here, the customer can't always be right as he is buying expertise. These markets are self policed by bars, guilds or other boards of professionals. There are bars to entry as these same boards generally set the standards of education and training.
Finally is the utility/monopoly market. Here, the customer needs KY as he is powerless. These relate to essential goods and services that use gov't or common capital to operate or to be established.
This relates to HOSPITALS, Electricity, Telephone, Water, Highways, Emergency services. The essential nature of these markets make it so that the customer is powerless. Just as in the gas bubble we still had to buy gas. There is free competition among gas stations, but not among gas suppliers.
So, when you say free markets, you have to define such a thing. Generally you will find that you are equivocating between free-markets and monopolies.
Further, how do you explain USAA, Ginny Mae and many other GSE's who operate at a profit--though non-profits they must actually pay a dividend to their customers. Their service is perennially tops and their soundness is incredible. I have credit and homeowners and auto with them and they've not played with my rates.
How do you explain that? Your facile understanding of the markets has made you putty in the hands of the right wing echo chamber. I am no fan of Obama, the sell out of this country has been a bi-partisan effort.
Further, none of you has objected to the military budget. And to the asshole that thinks it's humiliating to apologize, let's go to some bars and you learn either how to apologize or leave drinking through a straw. What kind of "bring em on" idiot are you? Bush's access of evil speech set Iran back a decade. You're not too bright are you?
Just as a reminder... to be a follower of Christ, one had to give all their worldly possessions to the less fortunate. One was to give up everything and follow Jesus. And they were not to fear as God would provide for them.
Organized religion, as a whole, is responsible for most of the atrocities in this world. It is time for the human race to cast aside the silly notions of silly men in silly hats. These assholes had there chance to run things... it was called the Dark Ages.
Besides, anything and everything that the USA does is controlled by a hand full of extremely large corporations. Democrats and Republicans are two halves of a coin controlled by banks. We are all wage slaves to these corporate interest and that's just the way it is.
Oh and by the way... there is a really good chance... that Jesus didn't exist.
That's for sure. Have a nice day and keep on trusting those politicians that got us so far in life. I am sure they are all just wonderful people with our best interest at heart.
So Jesus was a carpenter... and he was then ultimately nailed to a wooden cross in death... Oh the irony!
If we're talking about JC here, as I recall, he WAS an agent for change, and welfare (if by welfare you mean happiness and good-fortune, helping others, if they need it, no matter what).
Fuck money and wealth - "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar�s, and unto God the things that are God�s" Right?
Bottom line though, JC would be VERY disappointed in ALL of us these days...
Wow...I am glad I am back to address the Christ issue. HE did give everyone the truth but also taught men to fish. He didn't hand out millions, rather he turned the tables over on the money-lenders for bringing their banking into the church. Christ was a spititual savior...not a "wellfare" agent for change. Feeding the poor and doing good deeds and living by the golden rule does not make one a socialist or a communist. There are plenty of activists, Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, etc. who support the needy, their church and charities. The problem will occur when we are all needy because of mis-managed government and wrong principles. I am sure when Christ was a carpenter he didn't stand around waiting for someone else to do the work for him.
From a Daily Kos diary, it's just too good:
Remember that while you're out there claiming your place in the pantheon of patriots, calling to mind the brave colonists of old, it's crucial that you guard carefully against being persuaded to sign your name to any public declaration of your political independence. I promise you that the Founders will be smiling down upon your conservative prudence.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/4/9/718252/-Wingnut-Warning!-Trust-no-one!
Christ was a communist. There has been a outcry from the religious right of this country deeming the USA a christian country. While this may sound all well and good, our policies, foreign and domestic, are the furthest thing from christian. To paraphrase Ghandi, I like your Christ but I don't like your Christians. Your Christians do not act like your Christ.
Is it true that recently de-frocked DPD officer Robert Powell has been retained to handle security?
..... for the children!."
Ernie and Jay suck.
I do need help, Steve. The kind of help only a government can provide. I mean, currently it is legally MANDATED that nobody can be refused medical help. But that's not enough. I want my healthcare system to run just like the post office.
Steve, I just can't think or work for myself. I neeeed the government. Didn't you hear, man?? It's a crisis, and it might become a..a catastrophe! I need to plug into the government and let them think for me.
I don't really want to work hard to earn a living, Steve, I want to just sit and believe that somehow, I've been cheated, and that all them ole' fatcats cheated me. Ther're to blame, can't you see it? Can't you see it, man??? All them ole' fatcats sittin' up in them ole' ivory towers looking down on me. Owning stuff. It's an outrage!
So we need to just take a little - - just up to 42% at first....add the energy tax...carry the 1....add the per-mile auto fee...hit'em for that car I don't quite like as I ride in a bullet proof Escalade....let's see, they employ people, so let's clamp down on that...and Yahtzee!
oops...I am still LOL and socialism is FOS. I hope Steve and Steve-o can work it out. Talk amongst yourselves now... I have better things to do. Later
Wow, I leave for a few hours to you know, actually have life, and this thread goes BATSHIT INSANE!
Nothing like a little partisan flamewar to bring out the crazies. I say have your tea party, at least the city is positioned in a state that takes a day to leave in any direction.
FYI TexRusk, the protesters at the G-20 represent all sorts of issues, not all of them being textbook liberal. And when you gather enough people, there is bound to be some stupidity, remember the old white guy at the Palin rally with the obama sticker on a chimpanzee? They come in all groups.
@ LOL
Expecting all people to get it in a country where so many call free-market anti-statism "Fascism" is going to bring you a lot of frustration.
The dem's have been "socialist" for quite some time, this administration's actions of late are right out of the Fascist playbook.
But it's a friendly, well-articulated fascism, for the children!
Please get help:
http://www.enotalone.com/article/3109.html
You are entertaining me, Steve.
So fired up. So angry at the Man. You want revenge, don't you? You think that all them ole' fatcats are cheaters, I mean they must be cheating. I try hard, Steve tries real hard.
Steve, because you try, I now guarantee you all those things you want, at the expense of everyone else.
And Steve, even if you're not that bright, or if you're lazy, it doesn't matter. We'll just take money from people who have worked hard for their success. I mean it's only fair, right? Just even it out.
And now me and my merry men are off for a meeting with Iran.
"... Check your spelling and grammer."
Seriously, if you are just trying to entertain me, you could be doing a better job. Thank You!
ps: It's "Grammar".
1st, Check your spelling and grammer. 2nd, you missed the analogy. 3rd, the tea party reflects those who give a damn and will reap the reward of the efforts in spite of the socialist dream team. My parents escaped a socialist state...my mother's brother was killed at 14 fighting these dreamers who were later put out of their misery by end of WWII and they(who died for real freedom) would all be rolling over in their graves if they were able to witness the BS that is being proclaimed throughout the land today. You are being duped and don't even know it. Proving free market capitalism is easy. There are zero examples of a socialist state that really works. Why do you think the Soviet Union fell apart? Get ready for bread lines if this continues.
LOL, that story sounds great in theory. I don't believe it, though, because the true example would've been made by a group of students going off, studying hard, doing well, and pulling themselves up to show they could succeed.
In other words, it would be a better analogy if someone actually PROVED how a "capitalist" example could work where the "socialism" example failed.
(Plus there's the fact that I don't buy it at all. No way. A small group would've have done exactly what I said just so they could avoid failing, not giving a damn about who reaped the reward. People who give a damn will fight for their own self interest regardless of how many freeloaders benefit, since they are looking out for themselves. Anyone with a brain would take everyone getting a C over everyone getting an F because the C better represents their efforts even if it doesn't completely represent it overall.)
O.K. This is funny. You guys riot in the streets and burn down stores every time the G-20 has a summit. You burn down the governor's mansion...and you complain when the conservatives plan a rally?
There is no free speech if it's one-sided.
You seem to say that effort should equal income.
I've worked as hard as, I think, anyone in my Division, Company, etc., and lost everything a few years back.
But results should not be guaranteed. You should not have to pay for my mistakes, or my laziness if it exists, or my lack of ability, predicated on our equal opportunities.
Let me fail. Let me succeed. If I do succeed, tax me reasonably. But if you succeed and get RICH, I won't resent you. Results are not and should not be guaranteed.
Is that partisan?
An economics professor at Texas Tech said he had never failed a single student before but had, once, failed an entire class. That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said ok, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism.
All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A. After the first test the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. But, as the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too; so they studied little.. The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around the average was an F.
The scores never increased as bickering, blame, name calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great; but when government takes all the reward away; no one will try or want to succeed.
Could not be any simpler than that....
For you who think that socialism is so great, I will provide a self-addressed envelope (stamp included) for you to mail me the money you don't need so I can pay off my bills, my daughter's college expenses, and my mortgage and take that vacation I have dreamed of all the years. I worked my ass off to get where I am today and never missed a payment. Now you want me to pay for these congressional errors too? I have been on plenty of elevator rides with goof-offs wasting their employers money and laughing about it all the way to their socialist bank.
You are so partisan. I wanted to see the banks taken over by the FDIC. But you ignore that these most toxic of loans were expressly created to avoid the stricter gov't programs.
When we have a gov't populated by people who don't believe in gov't is there any question they don't take their jobs seriously?
The real socialists are Paulsen, and Geithner who have given billions to their Wall Street cronies. Are you telling me those guys, busted their ass and deserve hundreds of millions of dollars.
So you're telling me they busted their ass a thousand times harder than you? Really? Looks to me like their house of cards collapsed. I don't certainly don't think they merited those incomes.
Furthermore, we're not talking about entrepreneurs but simple managers. The Stockholder is the owner. They have no real skin in the game. They'll walk away with a salary that you would quit working whether they succeed or fail.
Talk to me about risk, hard work and fair taxation. Our economy has shifted the tax benefits to financiers rather than to those who actually produce things.
You're right about tax incentives on capital improvements being stimulative. But, the current system which subsidizes these giant firms at the expense of the rest is indeed wrong. The tax system that is exploited by the richest 1% falls on the median earners and up.
<i>Nice. Counter Fox with HuffPo. Those pretty much cancel each other out.</i>
AKA, fighting fire with fire...
AKA, keeping the dialog going...
AKA, provoking the saber-rattlers...
@ Scott
If Congress gave Obama everything he wants - cap/trade, benefits taxation, CG tax doubling, the cost to the middle class would be many multiples of whatever tax "break" you got.
Smoke and mirrors ain't cheap, brother.
@ Scott
If Congress gave Obama everything he wants - cap/trade, benefits taxation, CG tax doubling, the cost to the middle class would be many multiples of whatever tax "break" you got.
Smoke and mirrors.
Nice. Counter Fox with HuffPo. Those pretty much cancel each other out.
"It's apologizing to Turkey."
BEST THREAD... EVER!
Hey, genius, what do you think Lincoln's approval rating was when he was shot in the head just after the American Civil war that divided the country with bloodshed?? Huh??
Funny how a little time gives us the proper perspective.
Al-Quaeda is doing BACKFLIPS at the opportunity that Obama is giving them by walking in bent over with his pants down to meet with our enemies.
Speaking of going back to the original topic: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/dho8bw" target=new>
Fox News "Tea Party" Coverage Crosses The Line: Media Matters</a>
If you've been paying attention to recent affairs you may have noticed that the the Federal Reserve has allotted $12.5billion in commitments which will be paid by everyone.
Those went to whom do you suppose? That could provide a shitload of maternity coverage. And college degrees.
(my comments in ALL CAPS)
MATERNITY COVERAGE? HUH?
Further, who pays more taxes, someone making $100,000K/yr or someone making $1,000,000? The later pays 15% less in payroll and income taxes on 90% of his income.
OK, ROBIN HOOD, BUT OBAMA IS GOING AFTER ANYONE MAKING $250K+, WHICH AIN'T SHIT AND WHAT IF IT IS??? WHAT MAKE ME THE BAD GUY BECAUSE YOU'RE LAZY, OR STUPID? YOU HAD THE SAME OPPORTUNITY.
Who does the Fire dept serve? Don't cha think the fat cat enjoys the Fire dept serving those Apts he owns? Who gets greater benefit from the courts system?
OK, ANYONE WHO ACTUALLY USES THE TERM "FAT CAT" IS... I DON'T KNOW, STUPID? GREATER BENEFIT FROM THE COURT SYSTEM? DO YOU HAVE AN AXE TO GRIND OR WHAT?
What I'm saying is that those that earn over a million dollars a year are not likely working 10 times harder than the guy pulling down 100K.
-HOW THE F DO YOU KNOW? GET IN THE GAME! MOST PEOPLE MAKING THAT MUCH BUSTED THEIR ASSES FOR AN ENTIRE LIFETIME! GROW UP!
SCOTT, YOU ARE CLEARLY ON THE CORRECT SIDE OF THE FENCE, FOR YOU. YOU SEEM TO HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF VENGEFULNESS IN YOUR HEART FOR THOSE WHO HAVE WORKED TO BUILD SOMETHING, AND YOU WANT THEM DOWN IN THE BUCKET WITH YOU.
@ J: "In other words, where have you been and why are you only NOW outraged?"
Did you see Bush and Congress' approval ratings? They didn't poll just those on the left, ya' know.
Did you se the results of the elections? Not only the left voted.
You're just holding conservatives to the leftist standard, where outrage must be taken to the street to be considered valid - but if you've read any conservative commentary in the past few years, you'd see the dis-satisfaction you seem to to believe just materialized.
Ive been furious about out of control spending for years (why I'm now Libertarian and not Republican, and yes, I actually throw my vote away), but I do agree, why be outraged now? But I guess there must be a tipping point somewhere...
"Now, the more you make the more gov't services you use. You have more property and gov't generally serves to protect property."
Someone please tell me this is a joke.
If you've been paying attention to recent affairs you may have noticed that the the Federal Reserve has allotted $12.5billion in commitments which will be paid by everyone.
Those went to whom do you suppose? That could provide a shitload of maternity coverage. And college degrees.
Further, who pays more taxes, someone making $100,000K/yr or someone making $1,000,000? The later pays 15% less in payroll and income taxes on 90% of his income. Hell, Warren Buffet's said that it is criminal that he pays a lesser tax rate than his secretaries, or custodians.
Who does the Fire dept serve? Don't cha think the fat cat enjoys the Fire dept serving those Apts he owns? Who gets greater benefit from the courts system?
Who would more directly impacted by the free trade routes, the publicly funded universities, the national highway system? Who enjoys more, the intellectual property protections more, the services of financial regulation, gov't contracting and the like.
If you really don't understand this I have to imagine you really don't need to worry about making over a $1/4 million. What I'm saying is that those that earn over a million dollars a year are not likely working 10 times harder than the guy pulling down 100K. Taxing those who earn over a $1mil/yr at a 50% rate is something even Reagan endorsed for 6 yrs of his presidency.
Glad to see that the economy finally caught up with Davis. Only, his intentions are a little obtuse. The last group of "fiscally conservative" yahoos in congress and the Whitehouse increased government spending exponentially to satisfy corporate interests all-the-while cutting taxes for the wealthy voters.
That didn't seem to bother Davis when his portfolio was doing so well. Only now that he and his corporate interests are being asked to help foot the bill does he get all hot and bothered. Funny how that happens.
<A HREF="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tentrillion/">PBS Frontline: Ten Trillion and Counting</A>
Because it is Class Warfare. It is a sweeping shift toward a Socialist regime.
It's 9,000 earmarks when we were promised NONE.
It's KNOWING about the bonuses to AIG, then feigning outrage when that was discovered. BTW, the bonuses are a FRACTION of total monies given to AIG. Geihtner knew. Therefore the Prez knew.
It's bowing, and then saying it wasn't a bow, which basically is just caliing you and me stupid.
It's outlawing Lobbyists, and then continuiing to "Organize the Community" via text and Twitter hundreds of times weekly. I know. I'm on the list.
It's apologizing to Turkey.
It's using the word "inherited" over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. They all inherited a bag of crap, down to Washington.
I can go on. But my point is that this guy is MF nuts.
Now, the more you make the more gov't services you use. You have more property and gov't generally serves to protect property.
What the Hell are you talking about?? Do you have any idea how much property taxes are on a million dollar house?
The more gov't services you use? So you what, have more kids because you- - - no, sorry, that's welfare.
Maybe you have to get Financial aid for your kids to -- no, you can't qualify for that if you make X$.
Your assumption that "the more you make the more gov't services you use" is unsupported in your post. Please expand.
"Is anyone actually happy about government spending? Really, just curious."
The real question is:
If you are unhappy about it, what has changed recently that suddenly sparked your ire? Where has your outrage been? Why did it take this long? How is a proposed budget that is only .4 trillion more than the current year's budget suddenly the ice breaker?
In other words, where have you been and why are you only NOW outraged?
Look, you bitch about taxation, but you miss something. What the Reagan revolution actually did was to lower the high taxes on really high incomes.
Until Reagan we had a tax rate of 70% usually at $1 million/yr. Now this could he avoided with mortgage, retirement and other deductions. But, what this did was to lump the guy making $1/4 million/yr with the super earners.
Now, the more you make the more gov't services you use. You have more property and gov't generally serves to protect property.
I am concerned about the budget, unreasonable tax rates on working people. I want a leaner smarter gov't. But, I've never heard the "conservatives" question the military budget which takes nearly half our budget. Our pentagon budget will take $1.2 trillion. I'd direct you to Winslow Wheeler's article in Counterpunch on the procurement package.
In that article he cites the GAO finding that of 96 programs only 33 will have a working prototype in 2 yrs, only 16 will test their prototype before production.
When you make this spending issue partisan, you get easily mislead. Both parties are sold out to the financiers and the military industrial complex.
@ BrandonJD
I have no problem with anyone calling themselves Americans. It is an American ideal to be "wanting your country to be better for our tomorrows than it is today." I applaud you for that, sir. I guess we differ on how to go about making tomorrow better. I think left vs right can be summed up in two similar but totally different slogans: "Si Se Puede!/Yes We Can!" vs "Yes I Can!". I happen to believe in the latter. All I want is for government to stop standing in my way.
Anonymous says:
CHINA,CHINA,CHINA,CHINA,CHINA,CHINA,CHINA,CHINA.
IF WE DON'T STOP FIGHTING THEY WILL OWN US, THEY KINDA DO ALL READY.
Change "fighting" to "spending" and that is an more accurate statement.
In the absence of abolition of the 2-party system, we're not going to stop fighting. So let's tap the breaks on the spending, reduce taxes for everyone, let a few banks fail, let some people lose their houses so they LEARN how to own a house, and get on down the road.
You see, foreclosure forces the homeowner to go rent where they can afford the rent. Then, someone buys the house, pays the property taxes and the bank, and goes to Home Depot/Target, etc. - - kind of like an economic stimulus, innit?
Let's bolster our military. We MUST immediately increase and improve benefits for our soldiers. Drastically. Now.
Let's not try to change our economic system during a terrible recession.
Let's not grant amnesty to those who are here illegally just to create another voter block.
Anonymous says:
CHINA,CHINA,CHINA,CHINA,CHINA,CHINA,CHINA,CHINA.
IF WE DON'T STOP FIGHTING THEY WILL OWN US, THEY KINDA DO ALL READY.
Change "fighting" to "spending" and that is an more accurate statement.
In the absence of abolition of the 2-party system, we're not going to stop fighting. So let's tap the breaks on the spending, reduce taxes for everyone, let a few banks fail, let some people lose their houses so they LEARN how to own a house, and get on down the road.
You see, foreclosure forces the homeowner to go rent where they can afford the rent. Then, someone buys the house, pays the property taxes and the bank, and goes to Home Depot/Target, etc. - - kind of like an economic stimulus, innit?
Let's bolster our military. We MUST immediately increase and improve benefits for our soldiers. Drastically. Now.
Let's not try to change our economic system during a terrible recession.
Let's not grant amnesty to those who are here illegally just to create another voter block.
There are too many Anonymous posts on this blog. I was referring to the one posted on: Thursday, Apr. 9 2009 @ 12:33PM
CHINA,CHINA,CHINA,CHINA,CHINA,CHINA,CHINA,CHINA.
IF WE DON'T STOP FIGHTING THEY WILL OWN US, THEY KINDA DO ALL READY.
OK - - we are on the same page!
But doing and being more involves growth and work and learning.
The taxation involved with the budget that has spurred these protests involves dragging the upper tiers down instead of pulling the lower tiers up.
Tax INCENTIVES for businesses spur hiring. It's why so many companies relocate to Texas and other states that don't tax business as heavily as others.
We all agree that people have basic rights. However the current administration is engaging in what many call a Class War. Why in the world would you tax business owners during a recession?
It makes no sense. It really just makes no sense.
And where are the "shovels in the dirt?" Catepillar is LAYING OFF employees. That is just not supposed to happen in the wake of all these Public Works projects that were sold to us as a way out of the recession.
We want the same thing. But history has shown that raising taxes during a recession plunges the economy deeper into it.
@ El Rey
But are people who only share your views allowed to call it their country. There are liberals who have served our country in the military, My brother for example.
I own the faults as well, but I also believe MY country can be more tomorrow than it is today. There are always things that can be changed for the better. I am proud to be American, but I ACTUALLY FEEL OUR COUNTRY CAN DO AND BE MORE, instead of feeling like everything is perfect and nothing could ever be better. There is nothing unpatriotic about wanting your country to be better for our tomorrows than it is today.
Easy way to determine if this protest is for you:
-If you are pleased with current levels of government spending and would defend this in a response on a blog, then this event probably isn't the right one for you
-If current spending levels make you feel physically ill, then throw up, wipe it off your protest sign, and go.
Is anyone actually happy about government spending? Really, just curious.
On their site they say this, "Liberty is unsustainable without responsibility. Each citizen must take responsibility for the consequences of his or her own actions while respecting the rights and dignity of others. "
@ BrandonJD
I call this MY country because my family and I have a stake in her success and prosperity. I call this MY country because I have shed blood protecting her. I call this MY country because I have pledged to honor and defend her. I call this MY country because I own the faults and imperfections as well as the good deeds this country is responsible for. I am proud to call myself an American. You sound like one of those guys that travels to Europe and tells everyone you are from Canada.
@ Anonymous
WTF? I'm glad you learned to cut and paste. Now I challenge you to articulate a clear thought.
Look it up. Rick Santelli's use of the term was in response to the mortgage issue.
Do one ounce of research.
I wonder how many of those upset with the un-American Tea Parties are still bitterly clinging to their anti-war placards supplied by that grass-roots Stalinist organization, International ANSWER?
Just another example of the mechanics of the left, if the righty no likey, the lefty must lovey, no matter what the issue.
I wonder what would happen if Mark Davis and NEWT!! organized protests against jumping off bridges?
To Still waiting on a "yes",
No one's answering because it is NOT the central issue of this debate. The tea party isnt based on your mortgage math question. Its based on "obscene taxation" Not even the dallas tea party website says anything about your issue.
You are creating a baited straw man issue.
On their site they say this, "Liberty is unsustainable without responsibility. Each citizen must take responsibility for the consequences of his or her own actions while respecting the rights and dignity of others. "
Well then, why do some of the same people in the conservative "movement" seek to legislate their religious believes, infringing on the rights of others for the sake of having their personal views be law and make tolerance of other views illegal. From scientific findings about ourselves and the planet, to civil liberties of two people who love eachother to be granted visitation rights in hospitals.
College kids are viable citizens, and I applaud them. However, this poll is what we are talking about. I believe that persons under 30 have far more Liberal economic beliefs, which change over time for many of them as they collect debt and work toward success.
This has been a trend for a long time. I went through it myself, until I started to believe that my hard work and success should not be hamstrung to subsidize another BEYOND REASONABLE MEANS.
What I mean by that is that, speaking for myself, I believe in Capitalism AND I believe that EVERYONE MUST have equal opportunity, that children should be educated and fed, etc., etc.
The line of demarcation that is the source of my statement is that, as people age and collect expenses, in our society they tend to have to work harder to make more money, find more success (which is a joy in itself), and earn. Younger people, not having so much weight (debt) on their shoulders, more often have a different view. For a while.
Honestly, I find it hard to believe that, just two months in, we are actually discussing Capitalism vs. Socialism. It scares the Hell out of me.
But I DO respect all Americans. And don't forget, there are a couple of soldiers over 30 who BUILT your country and DIED for our way of life.
El Rey, the tea parties are not organic, but are promoted by NEWT.
We'd like to set the record straight by singing of the newt
For newts are open-minded; they are flexible and cute
A newt can breathe in water and a newt can breathe on land
And if you are a different critter newts will understand
Newts are not mean-spirited; they never are unfair
Newts are not underhanded and are not afraid to share
Newts do not have bad haircuts because newts are lacking hair
But the newt called Gingrich drives all true newts to despair
Gingrich the Newt's a disgrace to the name
When true newts see him they feel so ashamed
He's the black sheep of the newt family
The one rotten fruit on the newt family tree
Newts don't prey on other newts; in that they don't believe
And you will never catch a newt with something up his sleeve
They're tolerant to different environments and so,
They don't sen little newties to the orphanage to grow
What kind of newt wears a suit and a tie
And frightens small children as he rushes by?
But we admit that his suit suits him good
Much more discreet than a sheet and a hood
A newt may be cold-blooded but he won't go to extremes
And you can trust a newt to be exactly what he seems
Newts are sorry if you're sad; they're happy if you're gay
But Gingrich is perverse, and worse
He's proud to be that way
Gingrich the Newt is puffed up like a toad
So full of himself that he's bound to explode
And then we'll raise up our tails in salute
A fitting tribute
To that horse's patoot
Gingrich the Newt
Regardless, Regarding, the numbers in the poll are not exactly encouraging, are they?
A more relevant poll might ask how many prefer fascism, since that's what we're seeing now.
But then again, by my estimation, about 8% of the population knows what Fascism is. If asked, most would say the label belongs to free-market, limited government, anti-statist, low-tax types.
Benito Obama?
To "Regarding the Rassmussen polling"
I call bull on your assessment, since Rassmusen adjusts for demographics. And since when are college kids not viable citizens? They due to the education system will mostly graduate in debt, so they have as much of a stake in the economics of this country as anyone. They are also our soldiers. If you are considered old enough to die, you are old enough to speak too.
Why are the left and right still arguing who is to blame? You should turn your anger to all of congress and the way they allow themselves to be bought by lobbyist. Why did Wall Street and the banks get trillions thrown into their rat hole. When the auto makers asked for a small percentage of that, they have to show up in DC and get blistered by congress.
Recently China has allowed companies in that country to buy companies outside of China. Sure let all these manufacturers go bankrupt someone else will buy them. That someone is China. They've just recently bought a auto parts maker that was near failure.
More people should go to www.insideautomotive.com. You'll learn about what's going on in the world.
This is the subject of the article, and the reason for the recent resurfacing of the Tea Party. Someone please support why you answer YES to this question:
Should my neighbors have to keep their 6.5% Mortgage rate, and ALSO pay to subsidize my DELINQUENT mortgage down to 2.5%?
Yeah , and the swing factor is adults under 30 years old. For the most part, these are people who have never had expenses such as kids in college, kids over the age of ten, owning a business, etc.
Break your numbers down next time.
Voters under 30 get their news from MTV and John Stewart, and believe that newspapers are "for old people." IMO
El Rey
"If you think the government is the answer to all of your problems, please move out of my country."
Why is it that conservatives always use that sort of language, "move out of MY country", get "if you dont like it, leave MY country".
The country is everyones that has a legal right to be here, not just conservatives. And difference of opinion and the ability to voice it is more American than any zenophobic battlecry you muster about YOUR country.
I think that if you believe these tea parties arent being planned by people pulling political strings in the RNC and the Conservative "movement", you are fooling yourself. Sure, there may be real people with real concerns present, but this is all put on just like the socialist "faux-rage" that existed during the latter parts of the McCain campaign. With all the Joe plumber crap that was supposed to represent "real americans". Since when am I not real?
Rassmussen polls reports that only 53% of those polled believe capitalism is better than socialism.
I wonder how many of the people angry at the Tea Party fall into the anti-capitalist camp.
Show of hands?
Protesting taxation??
How Un-American can you get??
Should you, an Obama FAN, be forced to have to keep your existing 6.5% Mortgage rate, and ALSO pay to subsidize some Republican's DELINQUENT mortgage down to 2.5%?
Think of it in those terms. You have to take your Obama-given hard-earned money out and pay for some overspending Bush fan's house payment. To PAY for that dirty Bush fan's interest rate to be dropped from 7% down to 2.5%.
OK, now clean the vomit off your keyboard and answer the question about whether you think this is a good idea.
Plainly today's Unfair Park crowd failed to heed recent studies warning to minimize our intake of red meat.
"This isn't left vs. right. This is libertarian vs. authoritarian."
Then expect about 100 people to show up.
YES OR NO? says:
Should my neighbors have to keep their 6.5% Mortgage rate, and ALSO pay to subsidize my DELINQUENT mortgage down to 2.5%?
Go on back to the DMN Cowboys Blog, Steve, the adults are talking.
Best comments thread of the WEEK. Explosive use of ALL CAPS. Suspenseful use of... ELLIPSES.
If these goons are so mad at the GOP, where were the tea parties for... HABEAS CORPUS?
Should my neighbors have to keep their 6.5% Mortgage rate, and ALSO pay to subsidize my DELINQUENT mortgage down to 2.5%?
"Mark Davis" and "righteous" in the same sentence is a joke, right?
With a fine, morally upstanding man like that leading the flock I'm sure...
Mark Davis? Really?
The Tea Party movement is gaining steam. Anyone who thinks this is a RNC stunt has no idea what they are talking about. These guys are protesting anti-capitalist government programs, over-taxation of all levels of income, career politicians who do nothing but vote the party line and ignore their own constituents (including a whole slew of Republicans), and the socialization of our economy.
If you think the government is the answer to all of your problems, please move out of my country. Our nation was built on self-reliance, individualism, and opposition to oppressive religious/government rule. We all have the right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit; but those rights are not a guarantee of positive or equal results. Stop pretending life is a kids soccer game where nobody keeps score.
So, leaving out all the partisan stuff, the core question that seems to divide the board is:
Should my neighbors have to keep their 6.5% Mortgage rate, and ALSO pay to subsidize my DELINQUENT mortgage down to 2.5%?
Please, I'm dying to know if anyone thinks this makes sense.
oops, "job" = "jab"
JS, The thing about simply hating both parties is that other potential candidates from other parties exist, but few ever vote for them. There are numerous libertarians that run in texas, but they rarely get any votes. If these people are so libertarian, why not vote for people that represent them.
I actually agree some things should be allowed to fail, but when the carnage of the failure of the auto industry is more costly to deal with than simply making the industry viable again, then it's clear what choice has to be made. Just letting several million people across the country lose their jobs instantly, and the cities that depend on them to also collapse, just for the sake of principle, is not worth it.
Back to the issue:
The "Tea Parties" are in response to the budget and relative tax hits. Energy tax will be for all, as will a few others that are not deemed Income Taxes. Also, www.financialstability.gov is the website that gears homeowners to a consumer-subsidized Home Mortgage Modification website.
The thing is, the debt-to-income ratios on this sucker are WAY low. In effect, people who bought a house, and have made, and can make the payments, CAN qualify if they can show an increase in their debt-to-income ratios.
Typically, you buy a house, furnish it, and as time goes on you add cars, student loans, and other debt. It's just the way things are.
But this program opens the door to GD near everyone to have their mortgage rate dropped to as low as 2.5%.
Suddenly many people who are not "in trouble" are getting the hookup. This program further tilts the balance sheets of all these companies we gave money to because, apparently, they MUST survive. Or something.
Losing a house ain't that big a deal. I've been through it. You can qualify to buy again in 36 short months.
AND 40% of people who have gotten modifications RE-DEFAULT on that mortgage. But the money is already out of our pockets.
It frustrates those who pay their bills.
Ah yes... I see I've stoked the flames...
Can everyone see the smoke from where you're at?
Oh, and ignoreLander, <i>"And an unprovoked and unnecessary (and hugely unclever) attempt at a jab at churchgoers? Really?"</i>
It wasn't a job at churchgoers in general, just FBC Dallas, come on, I wasn't I specific enough?
(also, just because someone goes to church, doesn't mean they're good people...)
Oh, and I offer <a href="http://tinyurl.com/df22ru" target=new>this</a> to the jury regarding FBC Dallas...
So it doesn't bother any of you that the president of the United States removed an executive of a corporation from office? Or that with little to no protest allowed for the Economic sovereignty of our country to be put into the hands of the G20? Really? Doesn't bother you a bit that the G20 wants to control the payroll of any business that it sees fit? Really? Doesn't bother you that your Great Grandchildren will be paying for this "bailout"? you don't mind that your Representative Government has dropped all semblance of "representing" you? Really?
Personally, I'm in favor of all the silly people waving their sillier tea bags at Dallas City Hall. Better they spend their time doing that than actually bringing an original idea to bear on the Republican Party. Having something other than a PhD in GOP economics (i.e., being able to utter the phrase "cut taxes") so that they might win an election occasionally might constitute an actual threat to continued Democratic governance.
Speaking of cutting taxes, I remember Senator McCain speaking glowingly of the Irish corporate tax rate during the debate in September. This is a headline for a column in today's Daily Mail, "<i>How Ireland became an economic basket-case (...and the lessons for Britain)</i>". Oops.
Phelps, you are exactly right. Bush, fiscally speaking, was just as bad as Obama is going to be. 85% of the Republicans in DC are just as bad as 99% of the Democrats. Both parties stink to high heaven.
"People should be ALLOWED to fail."
I agree. The problem is that while most people may also agree, I'd imagine that they really have absolutely no clue how much they will lose in the process. Most people have little to gain and much to lose by the ideas they are pushing for.
I'm secure with the consequences, but I doubt the average joe is. Too bad none of the lunatic media salesmen are willing to give them the truth of the consequences. Not exactly good news, which doesn't sell well to the consumers (I'm sorry, I mean viewers).
What the Hell is it with everyone defending this moron?
This guy has the thinnest resume of anyone in CONGRESS, much less the white house.
He spent all last week sucking off our ENEMIES. Told a Turkish audience that we made a mistake, that HE did not want us to move into Iraq, then bowed at the feet of the Arabs. His European Suckoff tour is NOTHING like JFK, or any other president in history.
I'm not sorry I'm an American. Last I checked, we save asses across the globe and the last I checked, there were Democratic elections in Iraq.
I'm not blindly loyal to either party. I'm loyal to freedom so suceed and fail. I'm loyal to Capitalism.
Are you?
wait, whats wrong with Europe?
The IMF says the EU has the world's largest economy and the Human Development Index (which ranks standard of living) ranks 11 European countries above the United States.
If anything, being more like Europe sounds awesome. Vive les Etats Unis.
"Angry over losing the election, they are creating an enemy out of thin air."
The "liberals are unpatriotic" schtick is too old at this point, they've got to initiate the new marketing plan that involves misrepresenting socialism while convincing foolish, failed-at-history revolutionary types that somehow Glenn Beck is intelligent enough to remake the US of A in the image of our forefathers' intentions.
In other words, meet the new bullshit. Same as the old bullshit.
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