The Dallas Observer Blog



Add to Technorati Favorites

Blogroll

The Concession Stand

The Midway

"Oh, Thank God! I Thought You Said 'A Protestant!'"*

Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:03:25 PM
Pope Benedict XVI, like you didn't know that

Pope Benedict XVI’s visit to the United States has provoked an examination of the relationship between Roman Catholics and evangelical Christians, who share a similar social agenda. Southern Baptist scholar, author and commentator Al Mohler points respectfully to the continuing, seemingly insoluble doctrinal differences between the two faith traditions, and Christianity Today emphasizes the common ground, in two representative stories.

Pentecostals such as myself are part of the evangelical fold, of course, but many of us have had more extensive interaction with Catholic believers than the typical evangelical because of the Charismatic movement’s origins in Catholic as well as Protestant churches. Granted, you’ll find Pentecostal churches that are virulently anti-Catholic, but I believe they’re becoming more rare as Pentecostals are exposed to the breadth of their faith through television and major conferences.

My own faith as been greatly influenced by experiences with Charismatic Catholics. A Charismatic Catholic in Belfast, Northern Ireland, taught me about speaking in tongues and helped me overcome my snobby aversion to this gift, and my mother’s association with a group of Charismatic Catholic nuns made her -- and later me -- open to the Pentecostal experience even though we were in churches that taught against the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The most stunning and memorable encounter I ever had with the presence of the Holy Spirit took place at a small conference in Amarillo led by the Disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ, a community of Charismatic nuns. I walked into the gymnasium where the conference was being held, and the palpable presence of the Holy Spirit was so thick my knees buckled and I could barely walk. That day I saw dozens of children receive what Pentecostals call the baptism of the Holy Spirit and begin to speak in tongues. My own ability to speak in tongues was renewed that day when the Mother Superior briefly prayed with me and commanded me to speak.

I couldn’t deny the role these Catholics have played in my Christian faith, nor would I dare question their salvation despite our very real doctrinal disagreements. Just as with Pentecostals or any evangelical group, you will find genuine followers of Jesus Christ and you will find phonies. The Apostle John used only two tests for determining whether an individual was a fellow believer: He acknowledges that Jesus Christ came in the flesh -- with the necessary response that we must make him Lord of our lives, not just an accessory -- and that we walk in love toward our brothers and sisters in the faith. You know, quite a few of the doctrinal purists fail that second test. And if that’s a good enough litmus test for John, it’s good enough for me. --Julie Lyons

*Editor's note: The headline's actually the punchline to a very old joke, which you can read here.

16 Comments:

religion of bacon says:

My favorite speaking-in-tongues guy is/was Robert Tilton. I don't know what he's been up to lately -- last time I saw him was on BET, but that was a long time ago. I think he'd make a great Unfair Park blogger.

Tadanda da bassoya, da bassoya...

Julie Lyons says:

Mr. Bacon,
Yeah, I used to work with a guy who insisted Tilton was really saying "pepsicolapepsicolapepsicola." I'm not saying Tilton was faking, but it is pretty easy to fake the sounds of tongue-talking. Which, however, doesn't disprove the practice.

louis says:

The pinocchio joke was better.

Pretty easy to fake because it's just nonsense coming from people trying to pick your pockets by exploiting your self-induced ignorance. al;sjdfl;asjkdf;l - look I just wrote in tongues.

Bill M. says:

Read Mohler. Seems he objects to the fact that the Pope's Catholic.

Anonymous says:

The "presence" you felt was certainly not that of the Holy Spirit, but rather that of demons, who are ever-present and highly active in both Catholic and Pentacostal circles. Damnable, dispicable cults, both of them. Get a real Bible (not one geared to your brand of..."worship") and some good scholarly Reformed and/or Baptist texts, and study true Scripture-based THEOLOGY, not this juvenile, piecemeal, interpretive mumbo-jumbo crap you swear by now. Of ALL the people who could have been chosen to represent the Christian faith to the countless ignorant unbelievers who read this blog, it had to be YOUR fucked up Pentacostal ass! And now you're buddying up to those disgusting, Romanizing maryolaters... Thanks a million.

Speaking in tongues isn't a gift. It's about letting go and getting into a zone.

I personally believe someone would initiate teaching the letting go and getting into the zone without the religious context. I've found it very advantageous in my own life.

I'm an atheist and I can still speak in tongues so it really has nothing at all to do with any deity. I did learn it in a pentecostal church as a young man.

The advantage of having the ability to speak in tongues has nothing to do with speaking in tongues. It isn't God's language, unless of course you believe God is an babbling idiot. Speaking in tongues is an excerise in entering the zone.

Maybe it'll help to understand the zone and it's importance. The zone is that place where we release control and roll with it. It's where we drop back into a mindset that's all about reaction.

Where the zone helps us is in situations where our being in control is a disadvantage because we our perceptions are the limiting factor.

I believe my speaking in tongues helped me in school when it came to tests. That's because speaking in tongues had taught me to free my mind to react to the questions on the tests. I've found the same advantage in my work. When there's a problem instead of banging my head against the wall. I let go and invariably an solution will come to me.

I see athletics as a great place to teach speaking in tongues for learning to get into the zone. That's because it's in athletics that most people who have experienced the zone do so. Speaking in tongues excercises are a good way to learn to enter and appreciate the zone.

I like to use Muhammad Ali's slight moving of his head to avoid a blow as the perfect example of being in the zone in athletics. Another would be Michael Jordan's magical moves. And I'm sure the same mindset was a factor when Earnhardt turned a crash into a pass at almost two hundred miles an hour.

For the rest of us it's stuff like reaching for the right tool at the right time and then wondering how we knew to do that. Or stepping in front of an audience and being terrified. Then finding an amazing transformation happening as you realize you're in control of the audience while at the same time they seem to be in control of you. It's like they're pulling stuff out of you that you weren't sure was ever really there in the first place.

So I believe speaking in tongues is a good thing. Everyone should learn to do it. It should be required therapy for children who freeze up on tests. Because we all know they know the answers. They just have problems finding them. Letting go and allowing their minds to find that zone where the answers jump out instinctively would be a good thing.

It's just too bad that speaking in tongues has such a bad reputation, pentecostals and all. But we were able to wrestle the golden rule from the faith based yo-yo's. So there's hope.

Dallas_Joe_Schmo says:

are you sure they weren't just speaking in Latin?!

Julie Lyons says:

Oh, Jack, you give yourself away because you still can't spell "Pentecostal."

frank says:

Dear Mr. Lacey, et al: Very interesting articles, links, and discussion. R.C. here, or as Anonymous might call me, a "demon-filled, mackerel-snapping, Mary-idolizing papist." But I digress. Over the two plus decades I've had many opportunities to observe charismatic services, both Catholic and Protestant, and both here and on one
memorable Easter Sunday, at a charismatic C.O.E. church in Nottingham, England.

There's something big going on, so I don't mock those who believe. But having seen it so close and so often, I still don't get it; though I'm grateful to note that Ms. Lyons doesn't rhetorically close the gates of Heaven to those of us who prefer less demonstrative and more contemplative forms of worship.

Now back to Anonymous: You sir, or madam, are a *treasure*. Seriously. Reading your post was like stumbling upon a pristeen Model T. One can only stand back and admire the craftsmanship of the vintage slurs ("Maryolater"? A classic! Well played, sir.) while contemplating just how far we've come.

Indeed posts like that serve as a useful reminder and measuring stick on the progress of religious discourse, so in all seriousness, I would encourage you to return and post more often. Cheers.

Jack Jett says:

I was under the understanding that the Bible stated that if there is no one there to translate someone speaking in tongues then it should be done in private. In other words, it not a show, a cry for attention, and a ruse to make a few bucks.

Do you speak in tongues in public? If so, do you have someone to translate to the other members of the congregation? Don't you think it scares the shit out of the kids that are there?

Jack Jett says:

Julie

As usuual, you are wrong and a liar. The only posting on this blog has the name Jack Jett attached to it.

Which one of these comments do you think I am attached to?

Check it out lady and this time your better learn how to fucking apologize when you spew your shit at me.

Why on earth would I use another name? I am not in the closet or confused about my seuxality. I don't feel a need to talk about my sex life.

Just so we are on the same page....you are the fucked up chick here.....

You must have this fantasy that all negative post belong to Jack Jett. It allows you to feel better about your pathetic attempt at journalism.

So do some research woman........you are telling lies. Liars go to hell. The burn up real good there. BYOB

Anonymous says:

Julie Lyons says:
Oh, Jack, you give yourself away because you still can't spell "Pentecostal."

_____________________________________

Prove it woman. It is a lie like all the other shit you spew.

Show me on this thread where I have posted under another name.

Don't fool yourself into thinking I am the only one that is capable of not agreeing with you.

Julie Lyons says:

Bible Girl has MOVED to the Dallas Observer home page under News. And that's where it will stay for the next few weeks.

Thanks for reading.

Geoff Henley says:

Book proves beyond doubt no just God exists
DALLAS, TX—This May a former Texas prosecutor will release his book that will explode the foundations of religion. Just as 9/11 has raised questions about Islam and how science has challenged Creationism, Geoff J. Henley explains how common legal principles show no just God exists in Beyond Reasonable Doubt: A Lawyer’s Case for Disbelief in God.
Joining skeptics like Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris, Henley has taken the debate about a godless universe from pulpits and laboratories to courtrooms and law libraries.
“This book shows that just as scientists in white lab coats through countless experiments have explained our existence better than scripture, so have common law judges through trial and error over the centuries discovered principles of justice that are superior to those ascribed to God,” says Henley.
Having tried more than a 100 cases, including a capital murder case where he obtained a conviction without a body, the Dallas-based litigator analyzes the Bible and the Koran on everything from creation to damnation. In often funny accounts of creation myths from sources as different as Genesis, Apache Indians and Ancient Egyptians, the former district attorney illustrates that every culture’s creation myths to explain natural origins are no different than a criminal’s desperate alibi to explain his predicament.
Henley describes how gods condemn humanity based on our existence alone, but then demand fealty to obtain forgiveness for fictitious crimes. In Chapter 26, he explains that faith is a “contract of adhesion”--like the one-sided agreements that corporations force upon consumers in everything from bank loans to car purchases--that give humanity no choice, but to pay homage or burn in Hell.
“It’s Yahweh, or the highway,” Henley explains.
The former prosecutor shows that greedy evangelists, abusive polygamists and Catholic pedophilic priests are no different than the Old Testament patriarchs and how leaders of all faiths manipulate natural occurrences for simple financial gain.
In this riveting work that covers everything from Genesis to Revelations, Henley relies on the law and biblical scholars, and shows among other things that:

• We do not have the “best evidence” of God’s revelation
• The Gospels are unreliable hearsay
• Christianity damns the mentally ill like President Reagan
• The Ten Commandments are brutal and borrowed
• The Koran and the Bible have equally absurd creation myths
• Scripture violates fundamental notions of due process
As a former editor of The Daily Texan and holding a master’s degree from the Columbia School of Journalism, the University of Texas law graduate employs clear, sharp prose rather than buries the readers with intimidating legalese. Lawyers, laymen, believers and atheists will not want to miss this future classic on religion.
Beyond Reasonable Doubt will go on sale May 15, 2008 on Xlibris.com, Amazon.com, and Barnes&Noble.com. To interview the author or obtain advanced copies for review,

CONTACT:
Geoff J. Henley
2205 N. Henderson Avenue
Dallas, Texas 75206
P (214) 821-0222
F (214) 821-0124


ghenley@henleylawpc.com
www.henleylawpc.com

Matt says:

Most protestants I've spoken with are so incredibly stupid that they think "Christians" and "Cathy-licks" are two different things. Interestingly enough, I used to be Pentecostal.. until I went to Catholic church and realized I was no longer surrounded by complete idiots and actors. Needless to say I'm a confirmed "Cathy-lick" now. It's nice to be able to go to church and not have to be around the typical "churchy" people.

Post a comment

(If you haven't left a comment here before, you may need to be approved by the site owner before your comment will appear. Until then, it won't appear on the entry. Thanks for waiting.)



Dallas Observer Insiders

  • Local food, music and news blasts
  • Free Stuff