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Bible Girl: The Unfair Park Religion Column

Everything You Needed to Know About Bible Girl But Were Afraid to Ask

By Julie Lyons, Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 3:17PM
Comments (80)
Categories: Bible Girl: The Unfair Park Religion Column
Green Mountain Grrrlz

Three weeks after I got married, I found myself in a desperate place. On my knees in prayer, begging God to make me love my husband. I figured I’d just made the biggest mistake of my life. Maybe there was still a chance to pull through.

Don’t get me wrong: There was nothing wrong with my husband. He was kind, attentive, a good listener, a considerate lover. Really, I had no idea why he loved me so much, and that was part of the problem. My disbelief, rooted somehow in deep feelings of rejection, caused me to test that love in obnoxious ways.

This is an intensely personal column, so if that’s not your thing, consider this fair warning. One subject that continually comes up every time I post Bible Girl are comments concerning same-sex attraction, along with epithets directed my way such as “lezbo.” That's probably because not long after I launched Bible Girl, I wrote a column about my struggle with same-sex attraction as a teenager and young adult, and for better or worse this column has been identified with that subject ever since.

I left many things unsaid in that early column. To be honest, I was kinda chicken. I had just enough fortitude to say what I did -- that Jesus Christ had “delivered” me from a struggle with same-sex attraction -- but no more. Since the subject and the accusations won’t go away, I’m gonna tell it: Just how this transformation occurred.

I can already hear a collective groan from several of my former colleagues at the Dallas Observer, and let me take a moment to reiterate that my views in no way reflect those of my former employer or Village Voice Media, which owns the Observer. So please continue to direct the insults my way and not theirs. I’ve come to enjoy getting whacked in the head with a shovel every week. Ah, the beauty of pain. Hit me again, you hatas, you. VVM believes in hosting alternative views, and mine is one of them. Check out Savage Love if you want the ol’ familiar fare.

Shortly before I got married at 27, a kindly Christian counselor administered the one and only premarital counseling session my fiancé and I received. During that meeting Arline Westmeier calmly prayed to break a curse of “sexual perversion” on my family. I don’t remember how it came up; I might have mentioned that a disproportionate number of my extended family members are gay or had been involved in sinful or compulsive sexual behaviors. I know I didn’t reveal that I’d struggled with same-sex attraction myself. I’d never told a soul, including my fiance; I was too ashamed. Mind you, I’d never acted on this attraction by getting involved in a romantic or sexual relationship with a woman, but still it was there, a frightening force that consumed my thoughts.

The nature of that attraction is a complex. I craved affection and affirmation from a woman, not sex. My sexual desires were directed almost entirely toward men.

I’ve wondered for years why I experienced this duality of desire, and I’ve never arrived at a satisfactory answer. It was just a fact of my life. The same-sex attraction started as early as 7, and to characterize it as a “choice” or “preference” in the life of a naïve little girl is simply ludicrous. It’s a lot of things, but at that age it ain’t a choice. Glad we got that out of the way, my fellow evangelicals, if you’re reading.

I believe that same-sex attraction is primarily a spiritual condition. Is there a possible genetic component or psychological predisposition? Maybe, maybe not. To me, this isn’t the central question. All of us inherited the condition of sin from Adam, and only faith in Jesus Christ can reverse the effects of this legacy and restore us to God’s original intentions for us as men and women.

It would be cruel if God established a standard for morality and didn’t give us the means to measure up to it. But when we enter into a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, we tap into a force that transcends our physiology, our sexuality, our emotional makeup. That force -- the Holy Spirit -- has transformed my life.

When Arline prayed for me, the spiritual condition of same-sex attraction was broken as if a desiccated twig had been snapped. It wasn’t some big deal. A simple prayer, a simple result. From that point on, I didn’t feel crushed in the vise of sexual compulsions. Did I still have same-sex thoughts? Yeah, though not as often and not as intense. As long as I remained connected with believers who encouraged me in my faith, and as long as I kept my nose in the Word of God, I could dispose of those thoughts fairly easily. Plus, sex with my husband was much more enjoyable and interesting anyway.

Well, sex might have been easy, but everything else wasn’t. I had a difficult time expressing affection, for one. And those feelings of rejection, wherever they came from, threatened to sabotage every close relationship I formed. I would usually end them first: Call it a pre-emptive strike. I wanted to protect myself from the pain of being rejected again.

In my unguarded conversations with men and women who’ve experienced sexual identity issues, rejection always surfaces at some level. It could be the rejection of a parent, or the rejection of personhood implicit in sexual abuse. I can’t point to the precise origins in my life; a few things probably figure in there. I was born with an incurable skin disease that caused a lot of embarrassment for me as a child, when the condition tends to be at its worst. Compounding that was the fact that my father was a dermatologist; it’s as if God had slapped the irony button when I was born. Other wisps of cause and effect? My parents were divorced; I’d later suffer from depression; my family moved around a lot, and at one point I just stopped making friends. But who knows?

What I do know is that I found it very hard to accept my husband’s love. I couldn’t understand why he loved me so much. In darker moments I doubted he was for real; his kindness confounded me.

Looking back now, I recognize that he modeled the love of Jesus Christ: patient, tender, full of hope. Hey, I still don’t know why he did it, but I’m glad he did. No one has played a greater role than my husband in walking me toward sexual wholeness -- and most of the time he didn’t even know it. I didn’t reveal my struggle with same-sex attraction to him until we’d been married 10 years. I broke down in tears, crying for years of pain and pent-up shame. As always, he accepted me without question.

God quickly answered my prayer about loving my husband. I couldn’t tell you exactly how; it just happened within a matter of a couple months. We became the closest of friends as well as lovers. (Did I mention that the sex was really good? Oh, I did already?) I can talk to him about anything. I can’t delineate precisely the meaning of Paul’s words in Ephesians 5:26, and many scholars have wrestled with them too.

But whatever it means I can tell you that my husband does it: He washes me in the Word of God. When I’m frightened, he prays for me. When I’m discouraged, he reminds me what God has said and gently pulls me back to a stable place. Most of all, he continues to love me as I am. (My husband read this and complained that I make him look too good. And yeah, I do recall a few flying objects -- none directed my way -- as well as a smashed chair and a squished laser printer, which prompted me to say, “Next time, can you pick something cheaper?” Really, though, my lasting impression is of his love. And, y’know, I might have launched a flying object or two myself. Hmm. My mind has suddenly gone blank.)

For many years of our marriage this love was enough. But I realized somewhere along the way that my relationships with women had been stunted. Deep inside I feared that I would somehow fall back into the trap of same-sex attraction, so I avoided close friendships with women. One woman, my pastor’s wife, pushed past my standoffish vibe and befriended me anyway. She always told me the truth about myself, even when I resented it. A lot of church folk run away from that kind of accountability -- I’ve learned to run to it. Being intricately woven into a single church family for 18 years has kept me from ducking the big issues in my life. She helped me stay on track.

I also had “sisters” in my church who persisted in loving me. One always smiled and gave me bear hugs; there was another who’d just look at me and exude loving strength. Come what may, I knew she understood, I knew she had my back. And vice versa. The walls of rejection were slowly coming down.

I have another close Christian friend who’s like a sister to me, and she pulled me the final mile to wholeness. This time, though, I did something daring for me: I initiated the friendship. I risked being rejected. And as soon as I did that -- don’t know how else to explain it, goofy as it sounds -- the Holy Spirit scooped me up with a whoosh. All of a sudden I was the recipient of supernatural strength. When I made a decision to love her as a friend, I found myself able to love all the women God had put in my life.

It reminded me of something that happened when I traveled to Nigeria six years ago. On my way into the sprawl of Port Harcourt for the first time, I was stunned by the masses of humanity everywhere. Not only did this immense city never begin and never end, but every journey by foot or by car immersed me in numberless peoples--children darting into the street to sell newspapers, women with baskets who shifted mere inches to keep from getting thunked by passing cars, swarms of men and women slogging through the muddy marketplace. I was perplexed: How could God possibly possess enough love to love them all? Yet everywhere I went, and to every man, woman or child I’d set eyes on, I could hear the voice of the Holy Spirit saying, “I love her.” “I love him.” “I love him too.” “I love them all.”

There’s a counterintuitive spiritual principle that applies here: God cares for us first, pouring out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit. When we, in turn, take the risk of pouring out unconditional love into someone else’s life, God pours love right back into us -- except it’s immeasurably more than we ever gave. A person wrapped up in rejection, however, thinks he only has a finite amount of love to give. And if he gives too much, he risks losing it forever.

Today I can say with honesty that I am free -- free to love as God called me to, free from the bondage of rejection or same-sex attraction. Haven’t been this way for long, but it sure feels good. I get it now, what Jesus said to the Jews, “So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.”

Yeah, look it up. Get the context, y’all.

I’ve tried to explain this the best I can in less than 2,000 words. I’ll be glad to answer any honest inquiries on the comments board -- in other words, questions to which you sincerely want answers. If you want more privacy than that, click on my byline and shoot me an e-mail. --Julie Lyons

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More About:

  • Jesus Christ
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  • Religion
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Comments (80)

religion of bacon says:

Julie, where in the Bible does Jesus say that homosexuality is a sin? Or say anything about homosexuality, for that matter?

Posted On: Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 3:36PM
Fritz says:

You know, I was delivered from depression, by sex and drugs (+rock n roll)!

But seriously, if you're feeling the unconditional love of God, more power to you.

Doubly seriously, there's nothing wrong with being queer. Even if you are a devout Christian, it's impossible to follow all the laws in the bible to the letter. The established theological doctrines come from scholars and priest and what have you that were people like you and me. They didn't know any better than us, so all you can rely on is your own personal hotline to God. Nobody needs anybody else to hold their hand to communicate with God, or Elvis or whoever it may be.

Posted On: Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 3:40PM
brint says:

The "curse" of homosexuality? Seriously?

Is there a cure for crazy?

Posted On: Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 3:56PM
warden62 says:

Please go away.

Posted On: Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 4:16PM
Irritated Guy says:

I don't feel this is any more enlightening than the first "Jesus saved me from being gay" column. Just feels like a "better make sure hubby knows he's da man" column. Or that you realized that it's fun to write about sex and had to find a "moral" way to do it or something.

Also, flying objects, smashed furniture and appliances should be a concern! That's not normal! But then we wouldn't want to downplay the virtues of your sexgod.

Finally, you wrote in "Till Death Do Us..." (and it stuck with me like a bad taste) that it suspect for a woman to be married and have male friends, so I suppose it's good you learned how to have female ones.

Posted On: Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 4:20PM
GUNNY HARTMAN says:

Thanks for sharing, but I didn't quite understand the role of the picture and I probably could have done with less info about how good your husband is in the bedroom.

I can't speak for all evangelicals and I'm not really even sure of what the word means anymore, but I think the "choice" aspect is with regard to behavior.

We choose that which we do, regardless of what we feel. In the same way, a traveling salesman may have very strong feelings for a lady not his wife while in Memphis, but he has a choice on whether or not to act according to those inclinations.

We all have the tendency to sin, so its innate in us all, though it may take different forms at various points in our lives.

Posted On: Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 4:28PM
Joe says:

"I craved affection and affirmation from a woman, not sex. My sexual desires were directed almost entirely toward men."

I don't get it. Why is that a problem? Why would anyone have an issue with "affection and affirmation", regardless of the gender of the source? Every human craves those things, whether from parents, children, friends, or neighbors.

I guess I just don't understand the sinful connotation of this. Why were you so distraught about something that is not by any stretch of the imagination a violation of any religious principle? Where in any religions text does it say "Thou shalt not express or accept affection and affirmation to or from others of the same gender"? That's not homosexuality. It's basic human kindness.

Posted On: Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 4:29PM
brint says:

The more I think about this, the more I'm troubled by it. Okay, so you prayed the gay away. Whatever. That's kinda crazy, but it's a personal story. And personal stories are just that. Stories.

But this... this piece seems delivered with such a persuasive intent. An intent to sweepingly malign homosexuality as a "curse" along with whatever other "perversions" you vaguely associate it with. Then you go on to abuse your powers as an editor by soliciting for questions about how Jesus De-Gayification can work for you! It's a troubling defamation, irresponsible journalism, and bat-shit crazy.

I suppose I could call up Glaad, or something, even though I usually find them obnoxious in their own right. But you know, "cursed" people (aka: the damned, the perverse) have learned a thing or two from the Jews about PR over the last 30 years. Apparently there's still a need for that. This kind of language should not stand in a Village Voice publication, or any publication.

But I'm not sure I can call them. Because mostly, I'm just sad. And disappointed. I thought the world was better than this. I thought we were passed this. Guess I don't get out much.

I am not cursed, Julie Lyons.

Posted On: Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 4:32PM
Maggie says:

What Joe said.

Posted On: Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 4:55PM
religion of bacon says:

So Julie, is this going to be the last we hear about your being delivered from the lesbian spirit (complete with pseudo-titillating graphic), or are you going to periodically publicly reassure yourself, err I mean us, that you are definitely not bi or a lesbian?

btw, I'm still waiting to hear why Jesus never said anything about homosexuality if it's so sinful.

Posted On: Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 4:57PM
Justin says:

Cool.

What does this have to do with Dallas?

I know all the other writers for the Observer and D too interject little personal asides every now and again but usually they write about things germane to their repspective publications, namely Dallas.

Get a blogger account, they're free.

Posted On: Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 5:06PM
Spectator says:

I feel like if I came here and told my very personal story of what I believe and how I came to believe it, there would be others that come here and read it, and some number of them would be offended or troubled enough to write back and say that it troubled or offended them. I don't think there's any way around that.

For that reason, and for many others, we all need to learn tolerance. Julie has her thing that's working for her, and she wants to share that, and I feel she did so with much eloquence. If you have your thing that's working for you, tell us about it, but throwing batshit and insane around and saying it shouldn't be published is not the way we can learn from each other's differences. Play nice. Listen more. Exchange ideas, not insults. But that's just what works for me.

Posted On: Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 5:30PM
Michael O'Shaughnessy says:

@Justin - Amen to that. Why are they pointless ramblings here?

Posted On: Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 5:33PM
GreenEyedLady says:

What Justin said!

Julie, you're interesting when delivering "news" like the San Angelo trials, etc. I honestly did not read all of this (there was a lot) because two paragraphs in all I could think of is "who gives a crap - we've heard all of this before!"

Posted On: Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 5:44PM
Jack Jett says:

Julie, I mean this from the bottom of my heart. You need to seek therapy because you are one confused and fucked up chick, "lezbo" or not.

More to the point, is that your lack of journalistic skills are made more obvious due to the fact you are surrounded by incredible writers.

It seems like you have a crossed wire in your brain as you think the anyone, other than your husband gives a flying fuck about your sex life. Are you sure you are not trying to convince yourself? Is being self indulgent is a sin?

Village Voice is responsible for your hateful verbiage. They allow you to post here. You are the one and only extremist that post your propaganda here. Who else would be responsible? Perhaps one could assume that the new editor is that sex machine your are married too.

As long as you are allowed spew your shit, others should be allowed to spew it right back in your face.

Julie....this is the point where you claim all other negative post belong to me under an assumed name....and then get your Pentecostal pals to write in about gays having dirty butts.

Last question.

Seriously, are you ever going away?


Posted On: Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 6:32PM
Liles says:

If you're a male and you seek the love of Jesus Christ, isn't that a same-sex attraction?

I'm very curious about your take on mixed-race marriages, as well.

Posted On: Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 6:48PM
religion of bacon says:

If you're a male and you seek the love of Jesus Christ, isn't that a same-sex attraction?

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

Posted On: Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 6:59PM
harvey lacey says:

This is great. In fact, I think it's wonderful.

The reason I say that is I believe most of us are uncomfortable with sex. We're even more uncomfortable when our sexual interest isn't what is considered normal.

This discomfort is the wedge that people like Julie use to intimidate us into feeling homosexuality is a sin. The hiccup in the get up is their only support for their position on homosexuality is superstition. That's all they have. Nothing but pure old fashioned superstition dressed up for church.

So when someone like Julie lays out why she feels like she does about homosexuality as sin she does us a favor. Her explanations show her position is all about superstition and ignorance.

One of the problems with the righteous wrong is it's very difficult to get them to actually make a statement of facts about why they believe what they do. The reason for this is it's all about feelings. Mostly a feeling of not being comfortable with homosexuality. An interesting side note about this is invariably those uncomfortable with homosexuality are usually as conflicted about their own sexuality.

Julie has done us a favor. She's laid out her position for us to consider. What I see is superstition accepted as fact.

There's no way in hell that I'd suggest Julie is ignorant as in stupid. It's obvious she's good at what she does and that takes smarts. But superstition is a form of ignorance based upon emotion, feelings if you will.

What I take away from Julie's confession/explanation about her sexuality is her feelings of sexual interest in girls makes her uncomfortable. She's embraced the superstition about those feelings being sinfull to explain her discomfort. Then she's attempted to justify her embracing of the superstitions about sin by sharing her heterosexual relationship with her husband.

Okay. I'm alright with that. I enjoy my heterosexual relationship with my wife. But I also accept that our son's homosexuality is just as natural for him as our heterosexuality is for us. It's not about sin, superstition if you will. What it is about is not judging all relationships by our own.

Posted On: Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 9:34PM
Bob says:

Folks, we have a little bait-and-switch here, coming from someone who (apparently) claimed to be a lesbian. A lesbian, by definition, is a woman who is sexually attracted to women. Our columnist tells us
"I craved affection and affirmation from a woman, not sex. My sexual desires were directed almost entirely toward men." And, "I’d never acted on this attraction by getting involved in a romantic or sexual relationship with a woman." If she is not sexually attracted to women, but "almost entirely toward men," she IS NOT A LESBIAN. She WAS NOT A LESBIAN, and she will NEVER BE A LESBIAN. I capitalize because this simple truth needs to be shouted. If she loved her mother or her sister, or craved attention and affirmation from her grandmother or her aunt, that would not be "same-sex attraction." To be a gay man or a lesbian you must be sexually attracted to one of the same sex. Get it? Got it? Good!

Posted On: Thursday, Apr. 17 2008 @ 11:57PM
Joe Louthan says:

Bacon: Read Romans 1:18-32

Julie: Ephesians 5:26 is this...

When a husband and wife are together, their desire is that the other person is clean as in presentable, smelling nice, that sort of deal.

As we, the Bride of Christ or the Church (definitely not to be confused with small 'c' church), we are made holy and righteous by Jesus as we are presented to Him.

When I read Ephesians 5, I am always reminded about the life of Hosea. Even when his wife had fallen back into prostitution and adulterous affairs and in the very end, when she was being sold as a slave on the auction block, Hosea paid the price to claim his bride and redeemed her.

Jesus did the exact same thing when He died on the cross. He was paying the price so that you will be able to join Him in heaven.

"And now the Church shines as the Bride that You saw in Your heart as You offered up Your life"

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 1:06AM
Lavrentievich says:

Julie: Thank you for being so honest. If people are so interested in you going away, why do they keep coming back? And if they don't like what you write, why do they keep reading? Keep up the great work. At the very least, it gives people who otherwise may never converse with each other and opportunity to "share." Be nice everyone. I don't see Julie as espousing any hate. In fact, she seems to be writing because she cares.

Robert:
Did you even read Julie's piece before you slapped your picture up there? And...who allowed the blasphemous comment about Jesus Christ on last week's column. If something like that were written about Mohammed, we know it would never have gotten through.

Homosexuality spoke by Jesus? Of course, we all know this is a bait question. We also know you have all your answers and pseudo-exegetical responses at the ready. If you want it in redlines, it isn't there. There are proscriptions of it in the Old Testament, Romans, 1 Corinthians, 1 Timothy, and Jude. The Church Fathers, St. Augustine, Athanasius, Basil the Great, John Crysostom, and Clement of Alexandria also make statements against it. Homosexuality is an unnatural expression of sexuality. If you are a evolutionist, it flies in the face of perpetuation of the species. That being said, there is NO WHERE that says to mistreat, or treat as other than human, those in an homosexual lifestyle. Given that there have been many people who style themselves as Christian who have violated the law of love by mistreating those in an homosexual lifestyle, I can understand why some on this blog have strong reactions against the writer, even hateful words. But, you are not justified to spew hate when you say you want tolerance. A bit hypocritical, it seems.

OK. Simple explanation: tab A goes into slot A

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 1:15AM
hot chocolate liberal says:

You know, if I wasn't atheist I would swear that the continued existence of this "column" (it's really a livejournal post) is a form of divine punishment for ME.

Seriously, what do we have to do to make this crazy shit go away? Stop clicking on the posts? Start a letter-writing campaign? What?

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 2:33AM
MushMouth says:

Seriously - stop writing and get some professional help. Go to a real psychiatrist before we read a news account about you freaking out.

I really feel sorry for you being so wrapped up in constant drama. It must be exhausting.

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 3:32AM
JC says:

What Joe and Maggie said.

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 8:25AM
Don says:

Julie, there may be something after all to your contention the extreme devotion to Christianity can keep the gay at bay.

Witness Rod Dreher's obsession with Jim Schutze's ass, by no means the first time a man's ass has been his image of choice to focus on.

Don

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 8:58AM
religion of bacon says:

If something like that were written about Mohammed, we know it would never have gotten through.

Not sure which comment about Jesus you're referring to, but...

Mohammed was a psychotic pedophile pseudo-prophet who married a six year old girl and had sex with her when she was nine, as described in the Koran.


Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 9:19AM
Julie Lyons says:

Whew...trying to catch up here.

Fritz,
You say it's impossible to follow the law to the letter. Well, it possible to keep God's law--because when we have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, the law is written on our hearts (Ezekiel 36:26, 27), and we are given a new heart and a new Spirit. This Spirit within us--the Spirit of Jesus Christ--"moves" us (in the words of Ezekiel) to follow God's laws. In other words, it empowers us and acts as a sort of internal regulator enabling us to keep God's law. That's the only way, in fact, that we can keep God's law. Human effort doesn't work without God's help.

Irritated Guy,
Flying furniture isn't cool, I agree. But I'm not writing fairytales. I'll express the good as well as the ugly. We've had struggles in our marriage, and we started out as two pretty temperamental people. Still, my enduring impression of my husband has always been his love for me.

Gunny,
I didn't choose the picture. And, with all respect to the Dallas Observer's outstanding blog editor, I don't like it either. As for the stuff about our sex life, it's a joke, OK? That said, I live to TMI y'all.

That's a joke too.

Brint,
I am no longer the editor of the Dallas Observer. I am not employed by the Dallas Observer. I work under contract for Village Voice Media, which owns the Observer.

Justin,
Nope, it isn't germane to Dallas, but it's germane to the human experience.

Jack,
Will I ever go away? Dunno.

Bob,
I have never once said I was a lesbian.

Over and out.

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 9:24AM
brint says:

I'm beginning to think that Julie has unconsciously convinced herself that she is/was sexually attracted to women, so that she could "save the gays" without looking like an ass.

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 9:30AM
religion of bacon says:

Read Romans 1:18-32

Romans was written by Paul, not Jesus, but you get partial credit -- unlike Julie, who appears to have written her article and then run away. C'mon Julie, butch up...

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 9:38AM
brian nesbitt says:

thank you liles, i think that made my day.

also, why does the observer keep posting this shit from julie and not cover much in the way of the gay community in dallas? sure there is the occasional story about the 700 club being nuttier than a squirrel turd but for a city that has such a diverse population it sure seems that the observer misses the boat a lot.

i'm sure that julie is a nice person. i'm sure she doesn't go around kicking puppies and kittens all day. however, her continued portrayal of homosexuality as sinful or wrong or as bondage is making me seriously pissy.

julie, get over yourself, go to sue ellen's, kick back a few brews and have a good time. and village voice, stop posting this drivel. surely a conglomerate like yourselves could find some other piece to run that isn't nearly as off putting to your readership.

brian


Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 11:48AM
Julie Lyons says:

Brint,
Your comment points up something that's always struck me as funny. When I was writing "The Mystery of Sexual Orientation" in 2006, I wondered what the general reaction would be. I figured it would come down one of two ways: Either people would say I'm a lesbian and could never change, or they'd deny I ever was one. I really didn't know which response I'd get--that's why I wrote, "Some will say I never was or still am; my experience is no more than it is, no less than it is." And that is what I'd still say today.

I find it amusing that the majority of readers have forced me into their lesbian mold. I think that says more about them than it says about me.

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 12:41PM
religion of bacon says:

Unlike several other people here, I don't want Julie to "go away" or shut up, no matter how much I disagree with her or think she has serious unresolved issues - no one's making us read her stuff. And I don't think it's "hate speech" for someone to say they think something is wrong or sinful, as long as they're not inciting physical attacks on "sinners."

I would commend the DO/VVM for supporting an alternative voice (alternative relative to their usual liberal groupthink), except that the person they've hired seems to have been picked for maximum "gosh, look at how backwards and weird those silly Christians and conservatives are!" potential.

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 12:43PM
Tolerance Anyone? says:

I just can't figure out why 99% of you CANNOT STAND a view point other than your own.

Hipp-O-crates!!!

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 1:02PM
Miss Bovary says:

Julie, I am so TIRED of this thread. I find your pseudo-soul search for sexual identity and reports about your sex life so BORING. Wanting approval from a woman does not mean you want to have sex with her, Julie, it probably means you want a mother. Don't presume to struggle with being gay if you don't want to fuck a woman. Whatever your hang up is, I wish you'd work it out with a therapist and not publicly because you are embarrassing yourself and pissing off REAL gay people who have actually had to endure REAL trauma related to being gay in a world where people like you publish tripe like this. Okay, you are NOT GAY. We all acknowledge it. Okay? Now stop. Really. Just stop.

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 1:03PM
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Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 1:16PM
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Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 1:21PM
Anonymous says:

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Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 1:23PM
Joe says:

Julie, I think a lot of the readers of this particular column are a bit confused, like me.

Why do you consider non-sexual connections with other women to be homosexuality?

I reiterate my question from earlier because I truly do want to understand this point. While I might not agree with them, I'm not one to ridicule anyone else's religious convictions. I just want to understand why you consider seeking approval and affirmation from other women to be a sinful act that needs forgiveness and intervention.

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 1:27PM
Jeffrey Weiss says:

I'm with Joe. I know of nothing in any remotely mainstream Christian doctrine that suggests that close, even intense, same-sex but non-sexual relationships -- let's call 'em "friendships" -- are per se sinful. I can even think of a few biblical examples of such relationships that are clearly portrayed as positive. Julie, what are we missing. here?

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 1:38PM
religion of bacon says:

I'm guessing that when Julie says "affection," she means something more than warm platonic friendship, but less than rug-munching and strap-ons.

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 1:53PM
Miss Bovary says:

And by the way, the more I think about it, the more I think the art chosen for this piece is actually really topical. Robert, you're onto something: Julie knows all the cool girls are gay and her continuous melodramatic machinations about getting over women are an elaborate diversion from from her own wistful desire to be gay too! Le sigh!

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 2:06PM
Julie Lyons says:

Joe, Jeffrey & others,
I'll do my best to explain this. Yes, it's normal for a woman to want affirmation and affection from another woman. But when this desire consumes your thoughts, leads to possessive/controlling friendships/relationships with women, feels like a gaping hole in your soul and sometimes veers into the sexual and would veer further if you'd allowed it, it is unhealthy and unbalanced, in my view.

I never entered into a sexual relationship with a woman because of my Christian faith. Absent that faith, however, I think that would have happened at some point.

I receive affirmation and affection today from my closest female friends, but there is nothing sexual or compulsive or unbalanced about it. Maybe all I can say is that I knew in my heart that I was grappling with a strong force leading me to violate my conscience and what I knew to be true in the Word of God, and I no longer grapple with it.

These are great questions, by the way, and I hope I've answered adequately. Whatever the case, I'll keep trying.

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 2:20PM
Julie Lyons says:

In your dreams, Miss Bovary. In your dreams.

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 2:21PM
Jack Jett says:

Julie

So you want to talk about your sex life....let's talk about it and cut to the chase.

Did you pussy get wet thinking about other pussy?

Did you dream of putting your face between a couple of dirty pillows?

You are trying to half ass cop to something. This is why people are confused.
For one thing they assume you are telling the truth and being open.

You are NOT. Women admire other women everyday of the week. Any woman with a lick of sense knows the difference between admiring and sexual attraction. Your attempt to blur this distinction has failed.

My brother thinks Troy Aikman is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he is not sexually attracted to him.

Stop beating around the bush.

Regarding your bitchy retort to Ms Bovary...trust me honey, this city does not lack of sexy lesbians. You are not needed and I doubt if the lesbian community wants to deal with someone as fucked up as you.

You have met your Biblical match with Brandonna. That is why you don't respond to his comments.

Since you love to promote your success in praying the gay away...here is an example of
praying the gay back.

Azariah Southworth’s a brave man.

After a year-and-a-half of hosting Christian youth show The Remix, Southworth came out as a real life homosexual. Honesty, he says, trumps any old paycheck:


This has been a long time coming. I’m in a place where I’m at peace with my faith, friends, family and more importantly myself. I know this will end my career in Christian television, but I must now live my life openly and honestly with everyone. This is my reason for doing this.
…
I know I will be cut off from many within the Christian community, and if so, then they didn’t get the point of the life of Christ. I believe by me living my life honestly and authentically now, I am able to be a better person and a better Christian. We all know there are so many other gay people in the Christian industry; they’re just all scared. I was scared, but now I’m no longer afraid.

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 3:06PM
Julie Lyons says:

Jack,
Where do you find the time?

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 4:16PM
Julie Lyons says:

By the way, Gunny, nice blog. Just checked it out. I'll be back.

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 4:19PM
brint says:

Julie:

I honestly don't care what you're into sexually. It's not why I read this blog.

Maybe you were once sexually into girls, but aren't so much anymore. Maybe you never were, but you were afraid you might be. Who cares. Sometimes sexual tastes change. Sometimes they don't. But if they do, it's not a miracle.

What's both interesting and infuriating about your blog, isn't your orientation. It's how your "crazy element" (religion) reacts with it. This idea that a witch doctor prayed the gay demon out of you, for one.

But what's even more interesting, is how you attempt to disguise the persuasive tilt in this latest post with some bizarre "I liked girls but not sexually" pseudo disclosure. That's not candor. That's obfuscation, and it makes me suspicious.

You're either working an angle, or you have no idea who you are. Either way you're nuts. Oh well. At least you're interesting. So many people aren't.

I'll bet you love the attention.

brint

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 4:20PM
Dionicia says:

I am amazed that a bunch of bleeding-heart, doggie stroller pushing, save the trees, jeans just a bit too tight, FREE SPEECH, do what you wanna do, save the world, it's all about love, say it loud and proud people can be so absolutely hateful when the opinion expressed is not their own.

I believe that there are many who would earnestly post on this column but simply are not willing to endure the punkish ways of the cyber-bullies who seem to lose all sense of decency and humanity and literally attack like beasts...

Good grief

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 4:39PM
Bill Nelson says:

Dionica...

You said a mouthfull. If you read your words backwards....you will find they are just as fucked up and stupid as they are forward. If you think things get graphic her, you should go to the other part of Julies publication where you can buy all the vagina you can eat for under 200 bucks.

Damn, it is better than Golden Corral.

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 4:59PM
brint says:

Dionica,

Is it really that surprising that sometimes people get angry when people say things that could be detrimental to their interests, and lives?

It shouldn't be.

brint

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 5:23PM
Dionicia says:

For a fantastic example of punkish cyber-bully see Bill Nelson above.

Did mommy teach you how to make the girls cry??

Good grief.

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 5:40PM
Dionicia says:

Ya know Brint I do know what it is like to have people say things that are hurtful to me (see Bill Nelson comment above for an example). Probably the most difficult being hateful racial insults.

BUT, the tone of these articles is not one of hate. Just compare the tone of the article to the tone of many of the comments. Again I say that the decency that we show mankind, whether we agree or disagree with them, seems to be lost. I think that we should all be shocked (whether we agree or disagree) by these attacks on this human being. Many of the attacks have very little to do with what she has written. That is all I am saying.

To coin your phrase Brint - Is it really that surprising that a column called Bible Girl says what it says?

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 6:08PM
Ryan says:

as hard as it is to hear, people always get most defensive when they're told to consider that the way they live may be destructive to them

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 9:19PM
brint says:

Dionicia,

I almost wrote a parody of Julie's post, in which her character struggles with sinful "black" thoughts, the most sinful of which is to join a black Pentecostal church and live as a "sistah." Not that she was ever really black, mind you. She just admires black people, or how they dress, or something. It's complicated.

Anyway. So this parody version of Julie, she struggles with her inner-blackness as a teen and young adult. She eventually meets up with Jerry Falwell or some other creepy white Christian leader guy (Ted Haggard?), before joining an obnoxious All-White Baptist Mega Church. Together, she and this pastor pray to end her family's long, oh-so-shameful history of "black behavior" away.

And for the most part, it works. Her black thoughts begin to occur less frequently and less intensely! It's a half-assed miracle! At this point in my parody, I would fail to resist temptation and make a hackneyed joke based on racial stereotype. Perhaps this mostly-deblackified Julie only thinks about eating fried chicken, instead of actually eating it?

Eventually, Julie has a major breakthrough and befriends a black person without actually wanting to become black herself. This triumph delivers the unexpected side effect of giving her a super power: the ability to love. Then there's a lot of rambling scattered throughout all this supernatural drama. Maybe a couple of paragraphs about quantifying love, measuring it, and distributing it in rations to loveless South Africans with distended hearts.

The whole thing would have been an awful, occasionally offensive, and terribly fascinating mess. Besides, that's a lot of work to make such a small point. Glad I didn't bother to write it.

brint

P.S. Julie, don't think I'm ragging on you too hard (though I am). You're fascinating, but you need an editor.

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 18 2008 @ 11:17PM
C Chambers says:

...it's like a train wreck you just can't turn your back on...

Posted On: Saturday, Apr. 19 2008 @ 8:08AM
Julie Lyons says:

Brint,
That's pretty clever. I like your writing. But Falwell? C'mon.

"Loveless South Africans with distended hearts"? Beautiful, Brint. Beautiful.

C. Chambers,
Happy to keep you entertained.

Posted On: Saturday, Apr. 19 2008 @ 1:10PM
Renea says:

Very insightful, Julie. As a Bible-toting Christian, I totally get what you're saying.

I know you didn't expect certain folk to get it, but I'm surprised by the vitriol here. How did people transform a prayer to break a sexually divergent curse from YOUR family to an insult to their own sexuality?

I hope people will seek to understand instead of trying to crush someone else's view and voice.

Write on, Julie!

Posted On: Sunday, Apr. 20 2008 @ 5:24PM
Liles says:

Julie,

For your next Bible Girl blog, I'd like you to address the hypocrisy of the Christian ideal of personal appearance.

Jesus Christ is always depicted as having long hair, a beard and less-than-conventional attire.

These days, looking like Jesus Christ will get you profiled as a drug user or street person. Christians (many, anyway) look at people with long hair and a beard as outcasts from mainstream society.

So... if Jesus returns to Earth to save us from our sins, are you even going to recognize him, or are you going to hand him a quarter and tell him to get lost?

Posted On: Monday, Apr. 21 2008 @ 12:34PM
Julie Lyons says:

Jeff,
That's a good idea and I will address it sometime.

Posted On: Monday, Apr. 21 2008 @ 4:37PM
fniguy says:

I felt such a gush of emotions reading your article. You seem to describe my wife. She still faces the challenge of same sex attraction, but we are prayerfully making progress. I certainly dont judge her,as our eyes seem to be attracted to the same things. She is a wonderfull woman and we will be fine. God chooses how and when to answer prayer,this article may just be an answer to mine. By the way, dont sweat the nay sayers,Paul had them too!!!

Posted On: Tuesday, Apr. 22 2008 @ 12:24PM
Julie Lyons says:

Bible Girl has MOVED to the Dallas Observer home page under News. And that's where it will stay for the next few weeks.

Thanks for reading.

Posted On: Wednesday, Apr. 23 2008 @ 1:56PM
jay wilson says:

Please busplainto me what URL is.
I am too stupid

Posted On: Friday, Apr. 25 2008 @ 1:42PM
RvB says:

Only in America.
Anyway, I did get something good out of this: the plot of the Book of Hosea, which I didn't have to read now thanks to that previous poster's spoiler. It sounds a lot less heinous than most of the Bible anyway.

Posted On: Wednesday, Apr. 30 2008 @ 7:10AM
ScottO says:

Lyles,

Are you for real? 1964 called and is really happy to have this conversation again! Maybe that’s not fair. Here’s a personal experience - I was at a youth conference once with about 5,000 kids. The speaker, made a joke that if any of the kids couldn’t find their youth minister just look for the guy with the goatee - then the camera showed a section of the crowd full of youth ministers– all with goatees. That was maybe 1994. So 15 years ago, so many church staffers (not churchgoers or even Christians – staffers) had facial hair that it was, literally, a joke. Jesus was a laborer from Nazareth who lived more than 2000 years ago. He looked and dressed like a laborer from Nazareth who lived more than 2000 years ago. No big surprise there. The Bible is not trying to trick you. By the way, there are lots of great stories in the Bible about the kind of religious people that would look down on someone because of their hair. Jesus felt pretty much the same way that you do about the way they treated people. There. Now you and Jesus officially have something in common. No big surprise there either.

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 6 2008 @ 4:43PM
A fellow believer says:

Bravo! Jesus said that we are to be "salt" and "light" to this world and you are truly living up to that mission. We shall surely overcome by the Blood of the Lamb (Jesus) and the Word of Our Testimony. Be encouraged and keep up the good work.

Posted On: Thursday, May. 8 2008 @ 10:34AM
Matt says:

We all know that stereotypical "Christians" are appalled by the thought of homosexual relations. That's nothing new.

But what makes your column so off-putting and alarming is that you assert that ANY feelings toward someone of the same sex is sinful, and damaging.

Did you ever stop to think about this: Maybe the reason for the negativity in your relationships with other women isn't necessarily an effect of "sinful attraction", but your fruitless obsession with reconciling your COMPLETELY NATURAL feelings with God's will?

In other words, it's not the relationship that was damaging, it's your need to validate it with God that's damaging.

No one's perfect Julie, but for you to insinuate that ANY feelings toward a person of the same sex is heading down a sinful path is scary and SAD! I am truly sad for you, and your inability to have fruitful relationships without being violent (throwing shit) or feeling guilty.

That said, it doesn't sound like your relationship with your husband is any less "damaging" considering all you two do is "have really great sex" and throw shit at each other.

Seems to me that you just need to figure out how to have a relationship (of any kind) that isn't damaging.....

How? Realize that God doesn't expect you to be perfect.

That's step one.

God should be involved every relationship.... but if you are so preoccupied with the way God views your relationships that they can't function without guilt or violence... why even be social at all?

Posted On: Monday, May. 19 2008 @ 5:30PM
S. Royal says:

Julie,

I agree with "Spectator" and Lavrentievich; as for the negative comments, consider the source...they're full of hate, so when they hear anything about love (esp. the love of Jesus Christ), they attack.

You're in good company, though. Jesus was perfect, but even He had plenty of critics (and worse, executioners).

Posted On: Sunday, Jun. 8 2008 @ 7:33PM
Debby says:

religion of bacon says:
Julie, where in the Bible does Jesus say that homosexuality is a sin? Or say anything about homosexuality, for that matter? Posted at: April 17, 2008 3:36 PM

The following addresses this issue.

Leviticus 18:22-28 (The Message)

22 "Don't have sex with a man as one does with a woman. That is abhorrent.
23 "Don't have sex with an animal and violate yourself by it.
"A woman must not have sex with an animal. That is perverse. 24-28 "Don't pollute yourself in any of these ways. This is how the nations became polluted, the ones that I am going to drive out of the land before you. Even the land itself became polluted and I punished it for its iniquities—the land vomited up its inhabitants. You must keep my decrees and laws— natives and foreigners both. You must not do any of these abhorrent things. The people who lived in this land before you arrived did all these things and polluted the land. And if you pollute it, the land will vomit you up just as it vomited up the nations that preceded you.

Posted On: Saturday, Jun. 21 2008 @ 1:27PM
Caroline says:

This is sad
I'm glad I attend a church that loves and welcomes homosexuals
I'm glad that I had gay clergy and laity growing up
Or else I might feel that my homosexuality is a "curse" or a "sin"

I pity you and hope that someday you can see the all-encompasing love of God that doesn't care who you push your wagon to.

Posted On: Saturday, Jul. 19 2008 @ 6:01PM
Holly says:

Thank you for sharing your story! I am a born again, holy ghost filled christian, and your story is very familar. I struggled with the same things, being attracted to women and desiring their love, but nothing sexual. It made me miserable for a couple of years but I am glad to that today I am delivered by the power of Jesus Christ. (and I am in a wonderful two year long relationship with a mighty man of God) I stand with you and I thank you for your testimony. Be encouraged, and ignore every comment that has been spewed from Satan through the ungodly. Let us pray that their souls be saved and that they be delivered from the curse of sin, in these closing days of time. Love, a fellow sister in the Lord.

Posted On: Monday, Jul. 28 2008 @ 2:38PM
God says:

Holly.

Glad to hear that you are perfect. Keep up the good work.
And always, always remember that any time you disagree with anyone, you can simply proclaim that those who have an opposing point of view are 'ungodly', and are 'satan spewing'. Then, my child, you can automatically be 'right' all the time.

Great work. Soon it will be just like the 1600's again.

However... I'd worry less about the "Satan spewing" from others, than the horse diarrhea spewing from your own mouth.

Posted On: Thursday, Aug. 21 2008 @ 11:57AM
DL Foster says:

Hi Julie.

Me: black, pentecostal, male and ssa for much of my early adulthood.

Your statement is so true: a revelation I never "caught" while in church.

The Holy Spirit is a supernatural force which transcends our fallen physiology, sexuality and emotional makeup.

In short, God was greater than my struggle with homosexuality. Knowing that truth gave me the freedom that tongues, shouting and dancing, church and all the other pentecostal stuff we pentecostals do, could not give.

Knowing THE TRUTH (not a thing, but a person) makes one free indeed.

Be blessed for this column!


Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 29 2008 @ 2:04PM
NoDogInhefight says:

Wow!!
Gay and lesbians are very mean and hateful to anyone that doesn't embrace their lifestyle.
Hmmmm, isn't that what you guys say about christian heterosexuals?

What's the difference? No love demonstrated from either side.

MLK chose to be the opposite of the white racist by presenting peace and love to the violence and hate.

I wish both sides of the argument would do the same.

Posted On: Saturday, Jan. 17 2009 @ 1:29PM
NoDogNtheFight says:

Wow!!
Gays and Lesbians seem to be very mean and hateful to anyone that doesn't agree with their lifestyles.
Hmmmm.....isn't that what they say about heterosexual christians?
What's the difference in the 2 viewpoints? You are both extremely intolerant!

MLK chose to show love and nonviolence in response to the be the hateful and violent white racists.
It would be nice to see both sides try to do the same. "Do/say unto others as you would have them do/say unto you"

Posted On: Saturday, Jan. 17 2009 @ 1:38PM
Ro Hansen says:

It sounds to me as though you simply have issues with females - not with your sexuality.
Being hugged, and loved, and treated with empathy by another woman has very little, if anything to do with being lesbian.
In a few more columns, over time, years perhaps - I expect to read an update which describes either your new awareness of your woman issues or; you may come to the realization finally you are straight, or lesbian, afterall. It most likely doesn't matter - unless you are Bi-Sexual.
Hmmm interesting thought...?

Posted On: Friday, Jan. 23 2009 @ 11:21PM
YouAreCrazy says:

Hmmm... seems to me that you still have a fixation for women. Why else would you keep talking about it?

If you're really past all that, then let it go and save us from having to read your nonsense.

Posted On: Thursday, Mar. 26 2009 @ 3:27AM
HolyCow! says:

WOW! I can't believe people are still going on about this.

Reality, 1) People are sinful. Yes
2) CHRISTIANS ARE DETERMINED OF THEIR VIEWPOINT. YES

3)HOMOSEXUALS ARE VERY DETERMINED OF THEIR VIEWPOINT. YES

4) QUESTION: DOES GOD HATE THE SINNER OR THE SIN? EASY ANSWER PEOPLE.

5) WHY IS IT WHEN CHRISTIANS RALLY FOR FAMILY VALUES IT'S, BOOOO YOU STUPID PEOPLE HOW DARE YOU FORCE YOUR MORALS ON ME BUT, WHEN HOMOSEXUALS RALLY AN AGENDA THEY GET UPSET WHEN WE DON'T ALL FALL BEHIND, DO THE CHICKEN DANCE AND, THROW THEM ON OUR SHOULDER, SHOUT PRAISE BE THE INTELLECTUAL HOMOSEXUALS PLEASE SAVE US FROM OUR HETERO FOLLY!

WE BOTH ARE TO BLAME BUT, CHRISTIANS MORE BECAUSE OF OUR UN-WILLINGNESS TO APPROACH THE SITUATION LIKE JESUS;WITH LOVE AND HONESTY. WE INSTEAD SHUN. IT'S THE SAFEST ROUTE TO MOST CHRISTIANS BUT, ITS NOT ALWAYS THE MOST PRODUCTIVE.

MY PERSONAL THOUGHTS.

THX!

Posted On: Monday, Mar. 30 2009 @ 9:43PM
super sinner says:

It seems like a lot of these people writing in want a Bible reference proving that their point of view is wrong. Someone submitted the Leviticus scripture which is spot on. But I would like to bring up Sodom and Gomorrah. It was burnt up because it was such a terrible place. The word sodomite comes from the word Sodom. I know that homosexuals are treated with disdain and I know they resent that. I myself am a sinner as are ALL human beings. My sin's are numerous, and I get mad too when I am accused of them even though I am guilty. I just don't like being judged. But to attack Mrs. Lyles for writing her truth is a sign that you are under conviction. You would not comment so viciously if you were at peace with yourself on the matter at hand. I dare those who want same sex marriage to stand before God and ask Him to approve of it. I think that if they truly believe they are right, then stand up in the church in front of your pastor/preacher/minister etc. and ask God to bless your union. It may be likely that He sets the place on fire like He did to Sodom and Gomorrah. Don't be afraid to try that and see what His opinion is. Julie's opinion doesn't matter and neither does mine, only one can judge you and I invite you to ask Him to.

Posted On: Sunday, Apr. 26 2009 @ 12:06AM
Ashurbanipal says:

Holy cow - Good post! except next time try not to post in all caps.

Posted On: Tuesday, May. 12 2009 @ 12:58AM

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