Blogs

Let's hope he gets a letter like this back. You know, because it'd be funny.

http://mcsweeneys.net/2005/9/2moe.html

Pete you're the problem with public education. So your son can't wear a particular kind of t shirt to school. BFD.

In my opinion he shouldn't be wearing a t-shirt to school period. He should dress like he's serious about why he's there in the first place and respectful of the institution and teachers.

How are school systems supposed to maintain discipline if every rule they institute is challanged by some selfish, self rightous ass hole like you and your son.

Think of the bigger picture for a change.
There is plenty of time and there are plenty of venues to exercise your free speech rights. School is not a democracy. Students are there to learn not administer or run the place.

It's a place with kids and adolescents and all the wierdness in their wiring, hormones, pressures and craziness. I know your kid is mature and involved and needs to express his opinion (on his shirt??) Why not write a letter to the school paper, why not join the debate team or other interesting school extra curicular club? There are plenty of intelligent, school scanctioned outlets for him.

Why don't you try helping the system instead of fighting it over such trivial matters.

Don't you think teachers and administrators who dedicate their life's work to education might know something about the discipline needed to effectively maintain decorum and order in a school and promote learning?

This will probably be the only comment in favor of the school, I guess I'm getting old.

Sacre Bleu

Javerts,

Yeah, you are the only one in support of the school. People like you are the reason they have zero tolerance/zero common sense in schools (straight A students getting expelled for tylenol).

Javerts the Oppressor of Students, you're wrong in saying that you are the only one favoring the school; I do too.

Those parents who get all upset and threaten to sue because their little urchin's clothes / hair / teeth / jewelry / car / tongue stud / etc. don't meet a rule established by the school board and in some cases just common sense or decency have their collective heads up their arrogant asses.

If they don't like being a part of the community and respecting the norms of the community, they should just move. They will not be missed and neither will their pampered brats.

Rules are a must; without them anarchy would be the rule of the day.

Javerts, Pete is learning one of the most valuable lessons imaginable. There is no place for censoring political speech in any forum, despite your overwhelming desire to squelch their right to expressing their political view, they have a right to do so. The Supreme Court has already ruled on this issue, the administration has no legal right to do anything against this student. Pete's education or anyone else's for that matter will not be compromised by his expression of political belief. If it had been a golf shirt with an embroidered Edwards08 would that have been better? Would it have been ok if it had been a collared button-down?
The fact of the matter is that he is learning and I suspect the rest of the school is learning that the First Amendment still applies in public schools. Despite their efforts to squelch any sort of political expression that does not agree with their own.

I agree with Javerts. The parents are the problem. wonder if Mr. Palmer's employer has rules of behavior/dress etc does he protest those. Palmer the son needs to learn that there are rules in life and that you pick your fights accordingly. In this case suck it up follow the schools rules and when you graduate you can wear all the political Ts you want without retribution.
If it weren't for Palmer pere et fils the school might be some teaching rather than having to police whose wearing what.

Javerts, YOU are the asshole. It is not OK for schools to trample on what few rights students' have. To do it knowing that they were violating a Supreme Court ruling just shows what a bunch of arrogant idiots are administering our schools. Did they think there stupid, pointless, ineffective rule trumped the supreme court? Idiots - just like you.

You probably enjoy all aspects of the patriot act and welcome any and all governments to search your home and listen to your phone calls - after all you are not doing anything wrong so surely it is ok if they take a look or a listen.

Kids should be taught their rights and stop the government from abusing them.

Rules and laws in order to be effective must have the assent of those subject to them (or, in thjos case, the parents). That means they must have a clear object in view. There must be a obvious relationship between the law and the situation it seeks to correct, and the situation must be clearly disruptive or menacing. The rule cannot be vague or arbitrary, or based on whim or taste or fashion. If these conditions are not met it will simply not be obeyed. It will, in fact, be resented.
In what way does the T-shirt rule "maintain discipline"? What, specifically, is the pressing problem being targeted by this rule -- "kids and adolescents and all the weirdness in their wiring, hormones, pressures and craziness"?

Show me a school that can't take an election t-shirt and turn it into a means to educate and I'll show you:
a) a school that doesn't have or earn the respect of the students
b) a school that is scared and runs on a set program that it couldn't possibly think of a way to alter
c) a school I wouldn't send my kids to even if I had to pay for it anyway (which of course, I do)
d) all of the above

brought to you in the format they want you to think.

p.s. Javerts, stay away from my kids. Thanks.

What a waste of time. Why don't you people who get your undies all in a wad about "free speech" in schools spend your time doing something constructive? Schools are not unadulterated free speech zones. We've already seen this movie, the Supreme Court ruled on it less than a year ago. Remember "Bong Hits 4 Jesus"? AKA Morse v. Frederick. So good luck with all that.

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/06pdf/06-278.pdf

I read somewhere that the school allows university-related t-shirts. I find a UT or A&M or Texas Tech t-shirt much more offensive and disruptive than a John Edwards t-shirt, but maybe that's just me. I doubt anyone was actually talkin' smack about the early Democratic debates, whereas football/basketball/baseball season has got to bring out some strong emotions and gloating among college sports fans.

I remember one time in grade school I wore a T-shirt like that and was sent home. It had a drawing of an apes face on it, and it said under the face....APE SHIRT. I should have sued.

Javerts T.O.O.S. - I know that guy. He's the one who's always cold, mutters to himself, and always yells at those cotton-pickin' kids to GET OFF HIS LAWN!!!

Paul Palmer seems to imply that perhaps this district just needs to actually make their rules MORE restrictive in order to prevent lawsuits like these in the future. In his own words: "Let's repeat -- they allow t-shirts; they allow some words on t-shirts..."

Unfortunately, this continues to be a repetitive trend. Our civil discourse continues to be dominated by people with very little common sense and an abundance of ego. They would prefer curtail the liberties for all, rather than place reasonable restraints on their own actions.

Javerts,

I don't think your opinions are a function of your age.

Over 30 years ago, Carl Rogers wrote a call for progressive reform of education; in effect, he called for students to be *involved* in their own education. Wow, democracy in schools!? You mean, we could actually trust those little adolescents and children to make independent decisions, cooperate with others, and contribute to the creation and contracting of their own learning?

Very little support exists for your contention that "school is not a place for democracy." Look at the situation that our American education system is in; it's declining rapidly, and has been doing so for a long time.

Check out the book "Freedom to Learn" by Rogers and Freiberg. You might learn a thing or two, yourself.

Oh, and by the way, it's hard for some people to accept your argument about the topic of schools when you have so many basic spelling and punctuation errors. And, please, save space by not giving the "everyone doesn't edit their posts" argument.

Peace.

Urban outfitters has several alternatives for Pete:

Maybe this link will work. Maybe not.

http://www.urbanoutfitters.com/urban/catalog/productdetail.jsp;jsessionid=3ECDC9BB56504086FE631DE532E1802A.app11-node6?itemdescription=true&itemCount=60&id=13538392&parentid=M_APP_TEESSHORT&sortProperties=+product.marketingPriority,-product.startDate&navCount=25&navAction=poppush&color=

I don't care either way about t-shirts and freedom of speech. I do think this school and pretty much any school should worry about bumping the graduation rate up, oh, 30-40%. A t-shirt should be the least of their concerns.

Schools are not democracies...you can't have inmates run the asylum. There is a reason why principals and school boards lay down the law, because their students are FREAKING CHILDREN. They often point out how smart they are, but they have no clue of the real world.

And guess what, I'm an adult and I CAN'T WEAR WHATEVER I WANT TO WORK. If I stolled in to the office wearing a T-shirt that said "F-this and F-that" or "Obama '08"...come to think of it, if I wore any kind of T-shirt...I would be asked to leave and possibly fired.

Try throwing "free speech" at your boss who fires you. Texas is a right to work state -- and a state where employers can fire employees for no specific reason.

Now, when you know-it-all, Bill of Rights-thumping teenagers get to college, you can do whatever you want to do for four years. But while in the Texas public school system, sit down, shut up and learn.

Wanna sue? The most damages should be is to reimburse the student for the gas it took to drive home and change shirts. That's it.

High school is the most important and entitled time of our lives.

I wish I hadn't gone to private school and I wish I didn't have to wear a uniform.
I wish I could've been apart of all this entitlement, name calling, lawyering-up, free-speech stuff.

I really missed out.
Saint God bless America with hopey-hope, change-change.

Now you can't argue with me.

"If they don't like being a part of the community and respecting the norms of the community, they should just move."

If the Board and the administration can't craft a school dress code that is in compliance with the law of the land, then perhaps they should move.

I also wonder why it seems that as our dress codes become more strict, our students seem to be doing worse and worse.

When I was in high school, the dress code was certainly more relaxed than the one described here. Yet, we still managed to maintain order and discipline and graduate an extremely high percentage of the student body, most of whom went on to college (where there was no dress code at all, yet we still managed to learn some things here and there).

Rhinosaur,

I disagree with your comparison of students in schools to inmates in an asylum. As a matter of fact, "asylums" no longer exist. Inpatient mental health treatment facilities exist in order to protect people from harming themselves or others. Are you saying that students that have a say in their own education are liable to end up hurting themselves or others?

I wore a lot of t-shirts to elementary, middle, and high school. I was a successful student throughout secondary school, postsecondary school, maintained a 4.0 in graduate school for my Master's, and now maintain a 4.0 (so far) in graduate school toward my PhD. If anything, the freedom to wear t-shirts in high school helped me to know that it wasn't a big deal and didn't define who I am.

I'm really sorry that you have to dress professionally for your job. You always have the choice to leave your profession and enter one in which the dress code is more liberal. No one is forcing you to work where you work.

Children and adolescents are not adults. Biologically and developmentally it is impossible to expect them to "act like" or "be like" adults. Yet, you maintain expectations as if they should learn now what the "real world" is like.

Fortunately, some of us don't feel the need to accept "the real world" a priori. I would truly dislike a world without some people to stir the pot of change and transformation a bit.

"Sit down, shut up, and learn" -- wow, that mantra is really going to appeal to children and adolescents. Hopefully, you don't have a hand in the education system other than paying property taxes.

back in my day it would have been a Sex Pistols or Gang of Four tshirt, today it's
Mr. $400 haircut.

Warden62, if you want to perpetuate the nauseatingly swelling sense of entitlement today's youth exhibit, go right ahead with your mantra of "we need troublemakers to make things interesting."

I graduated summa and wore T-shirts throughout my youth, as well. That's got nothing to do with anything...but if an authority figure told me to change a shirt, I'd do it and not sue.

And anybody with a 4.0 should know that "inmates running the asylum" is an expression, not a literal statement.

And by all means, let's not teach children any practical, real-world lessons...that way we can have more parents with basement-dwelling 20-somethings.

So, the general idea here seems to be, we need to impose these unreasonable rules on kids because...well, they're kids.

Backpack Kid - Waxahachie doesn't seem to have much of a problem with the graduation rate. In a quick google search I found the 2004 graduation rate in Waxahachie was 91.7%. I found another site that states 89.9% but no year noted. Room for improvement, sure, but you think having a little "structure" is harming them?

You all seem to be missing the point Wilonsky made at the first. The Court has ruled on this already, forty years ago! Bong hits 4 Jesus does not equate to Edwards08. The district does not have a case. It also does not compare to a work environment. You go to work and are employed out of mutual agreement. School is mandatory. They ruled on wearing pins and such like already. See the case of the Arlington cop who wanted to wear a cross on his lapel. However, this is not work. There is no choice on the part of the student or the school to not attend. You cannot get fired from school, expelled maybe, but not fired.

To update, per an article in the Waxahachie Daily Light 4/3/08 - 96% graduation rate in 2006-7 school year.

http://www.waxahachiedailylight.com/articles/2008/04/03/news/doc47f51ede7282f770753938.txt