"Old Habits Die Hard"

Bishop J. Neaul Haynes: What did he know about Pastor Sherman Allen, and what did he do about it?

Pastor Sherman Allen's bishop in the Church of God in Christ, J. Neaul Haynes of Dallas, has been aware of paddling allegations involving Allen for at least 17 years.

One of Allen's alleged victims, a woman who identifies herself by the pseudonym "Jill," complained about the paddling to a Church of God in Christ district superintendent in 1989 or 1990, she says. Her complaint led to a meeting that involved Haynes and other COGIC clergymen. Jill and two other women detailed their allegations against Allen at that meeting, with one woman calling Allen's penchant for paddling a "bad habit" that "needs to be broken."

Bishop Haynes' reply, according to Jill: "Old habits die hard."

No action appears to have been taken against Allen, Jill and others say.

Haynes, pastor of Saintsville Church of God in Christ in South Oak Cliff and now the No. 2-ranking bishop in the COGIC (because of the death Tuesday of Presiding Bishop Gilbert E. Patterson), has not responded to two detailed written requests for comment. His church hung up on my assistant when she called last Monday. The Church of God in Christ's general counsel, Elder Enoch Perry III, also hasn't responded to requests for comment.

Pastor Allen's attorney, Frank Hill of the Arlington law firm Hill Gilstrap, did offer a polite "I can't comment" on his client's behalf.


One of Allen's former church members and employees, Davina Kelly, has filed suit against Allen; Allen's Fort Worth church, Shiloh Institutional Church of God in Christ; the Memphis-based Church of God in Christ denomination; and unidentified COGIC officials whom Kelly's attorneys plan to name as defendants at a later date. Kelly claims that Allen repeatedly paddled and sexually abused her. Allen has filed a general denial of the claims.


Since the lawsuit became public in February, seven other women or their family members have contacted Kelly's Dallas-area attorneys, Stan Broome and Matthew Bobo, with similar claims. Read here, here and here for previous Bible Girl columns about the Allen case.


A COGIC pastor has told me about another meeting involving Bishop Haynes and another set of allegations against Allen. (I spoke with several other COGIC sources who confirmed that this meeting took place.)


This pastor, who asked that he not be identified, was present at a meeting in the mid-1990s in which he and several other pastors from Bishop Haynes' COGIC jurisdiction listened as a single woman and a married woman, who came to the meeting with her husband, voiced accusations that Allen had paddled them. The single woman also claimed Allen raped her after forcing her to undress and paddling her so brutally that it left scars. She tumbled down some stairs trying to escape him. Bishop Haynes was present for part of the meeting, the pastor says, but later left and turned it over to a district superintendent, who then led the proceedings.


The pastor I spoke to says he sat right next to Allen, who showed no emotion as the women made their claims. But throughout the meeting, the pastor says, Allen sat with his legs crossed, shaking his foot constantly.


At one point, the woman's husband told Allen that if he ever hit his wife, he'd get a gun and blow Allen's head off. Haynes rebuked him.


After hearing the allegations, Haynes commented that he hadn't heard anything "concrete," the pastor says.


The single woman was disgusted with Haynes' response, the pastor says. She told the men, "I knew I was wasting my time coming here."


Haynes dismissed himself from the meeting, leaving a superintendent in charge. The superintendent, whom the pastor recalls as being very nervous, asked Allen a question about the allegations.


Allen's reply, according to the pastor: "Some of the charges are true, and some charges are not."


The pastor turned to Allen and pressed further: "Which are true, and which are not true?"


"I don't have to answer to you," Allen replied.


"Brother, you're right...but two things are going to happen to you," the pastor says he told Allen. "What goes around, it comes around, and you are going to have to reap what you've sown. And I don't know when it will be, but sooner or later, you're going to be brought to justice.


"And I hope it's soon...you are a disgrace."


The pastor left the meeting realizing that Bishop Haynes wasn't going to do anything about Allen. And, to his knowledge, nothing ever was done.


I should add that the Church of God in Christ is no fly-by-night Pentecostal organization; it has its origins in the Azusa Revival at the turn of the last century and is in many ways the mother of the classic Pentecostal denominations. The Assemblies of God and quite a few other Pentecostal bodies have their roots in the Church of God in Christ and its founder, Bishop Charles Harrison Mason -- an extraordinary black apostle who ordained whites as well as blacks in the midst of the Jim Crow era.


If you meet a man who has made the rank of bishop in the Church of God in Christ, you can be assured that he has worked his tail off within the organization for many, many years. In contrast to practices on the fringe of Pentecostalism, being a bishop in COGIC really means something. It is in no way a self-appointed position.


I had the opportunity to interview Bishop Haynes years ago when I was a reporter at the Dallas Times Herald, and I found him to be a gracious and thoughtful man. He oversees many, many churches, and Allen's was just one of them.


Jill's Story


I interviewed "Jill" at length a few weeks ago. Jill, now 41, began attending Allen's church as a child. Her mother was, and still is, a staunch Allen loyalist and Shiloh church "mother." In those early days of Allen's ministry, Jill says, "many" church members actually ceded discipline of their children to Allen through permission slips -- Allen retained the only copy, she says.


The permission slips cleared the way, in Jill's case, for repeated paddlings, she says. Jill's story begins with a strained relationship with her mother. Jill has two younger half-sisters who, she says, were treated more favorably by her mother. Jill, in contrast, was perceived as the black sheep, even though she says she "did nothing" and couldn't even if she wanted to, since she lived within the tight confines of Allen's church circle. "I don't know if it goes back to her and my dad's relationship, but it's like she had a problem with me, and it got worse and worse," Jill says of her mother. "I was always treated differently."


Growing up, Jill witnessed some strange scenes in Allen's church. I asked her if she'd heard he was involved in the occult, which had been rumored for years in COGIC circles. "There didn't have to be no rumors," Jill says. "I was there and pretty much saw it." In the church, she said, Allen had a 2- or 3-foot Mary statuette on display -- not a typical Pentecostal prop, to say the least. It was "off to the side," Jill says, and it was "actually fading in and out" during a service.


"I just kind of closed my eyes, because I knew I wasn't seeing that," Jill says. "But...this is some crazy stuff. I know what I saw. That's what I saw."


Allen often gave her "healing" potions, she says, some of which made her ill.


The paddlings, she says, began when she was 13. Allen would ply her mother for information about anything Jill had done wrong. Was she acting up in school? Things like that. "That's how he concluded if I should get a paddling or not," she says.


Jill's life was firmly circumscribed by the church -- she had to drop everything to accompany Allen and other members to meetings, and he also dictated her circle of friends, she says. When the paddlings started, he always managed to identify something she'd done wrong, thanks to Mom's tattling.


When Allen started paddling her, Jill says, her mother stopped disciplining her altogether. Allen would initiate private meetings with her at his office by telling Jill he needed to see her after church, Jill says. The meetings were supposed to be counseling -- to keep her from getting with the wrong crowd. The first time he asked to meet, she says, "I was thinking it had something to do with the church, but it was the lowdown of what he'd been told, I did this and I did that."


In these early years of the ministry -- in the 1980s -- Allen allegedly paddled her while she was fully clothed. He'd even ask her to choose the paddle -- he kept several in a closet; some were thick and some were thin, she says. When given the choice, she'd pick the thin one. He also carried a paddle in a briefcase in the trunk of his car, she says. (Lawyer Stan Broome says he's heard this from several alleged paddling victims.)


Though Jill always made sure she did nothing to trigger a paddling, she says Allen always found something. It could be as vague as claiming "God don't like ugly," an African-American saying that refers to behavior, not appearance. Before whacking her, she says, he'd tell her he had her best interests in mind: "'You know, I want what's best for you. I don't want you to get mixed up with the wrong crowd, being rebellious to God.'"


Then he'd tell her to grab her ankles and pull her dress down tight, so loose clothing wouldn't soften the blows. "I would grab my ankles and bend over...and he'd have me grip my dress, and he would paddle me," she says.


"I really can't tell you how many licks it was, I just know that my bottom was hard -- it was purple. It took forever and a day for me to be able to actually sit down...I would almost be sick, but that didn't make any difference to him."


Sometimes Jill would struggle and turn around or cover her rear with a hand to shield the blows. One time he hit her in the wrist while she squirmed, she says, and it "swelled up so big where I just had to hold it to keep the pain down."


The beatings got worse over time, Jill says. Sometimes Allen would sidle up to her in church and ask in a whisper, "Is your bottom still sore?"


"Then he would tell me what to do to soothe it," Jill says. "Soak it in Epsom salts." (Davina Kelly says Allen told her to use cocoa butter.) Her bottom, Jill says, became "rock hard" like a callus.


After the very first beating, Jill says she confronted her mother. Why did she let him do that? "I told her that any time I was out of line or unruly, you took care of that -- so why would you even do that? And I told her, you can stop this. She said, 'No, I can't.' I said yes you can -- you're the one who started it. And she never did [do anything to stop the beatings]. And it went on and on. And she's still there [in Shiloh]."


It was another story with the two other daughters, Jill says. "He spanked them one time," she says, "and after that she wouldn't let him touch them."


One time Jill confided in an adult church member about the beatings. That member immediately told Allen, she says, "and at that point it really got hard on me."


She also began struggling in school. "My grades went down. I was the very last one in school because I didn't want to go home."


Jill thought she'd found a way out of the pain. At 16, she says, she tried to kill herself by swallowing a handful of pills. But nothing happened.


"I looked at it as I'd be free -- it would be my way out," Jill says, fighting back tears. "I didn't have nobody I could turn to. Nobody to lean on. I was cut off from everything. I was cut off from my aunties, everybody. I couldn't talk to nobody. If they wasn't anybody dealing with Shiloh, I could not talk to them."


Allen, Jill says, has a preternatural ability to detect a woman's weaknesses. "It's a mind thing," she says. "And he knows that we at a vulnerable state -- he use that. Along with his oils and all his other stuff...It's like he's reading your mind. He'd have this thing where he'd say, 'Look at me. Look at me. Look at my eyes.' He has some kind of control. You're going to do what he say."


Allen often prescribed her potions and herbal remedies, she says, including one that looked like loose-leaf tea and was packed in a plain plastic bag. It made her sick to her stomach, she says. Other times he'd ask her to drink water that he'd prayed over. That made her ill too, she says. She stopped drinking it.


While the beatings weren't overtly sexual, she says, she believed he meant to steer it in that direction. One time, she says, he asked her whether she was on the pill. She said she wasn't. Why not? he asked her. "Because I'm not doing nothing," she replied.


Jill never thought the beatings were justified. She always believed Allen had crossed the line. "When I was young, there was nothing I could do about it," she says. At one point she'd looked up to him as a leader, she says. But after the paddlings started, she says, "I couldn't stand him."


Finally, she says, she realized she "couldn't go through this anymore." She had a boyfriend who found it silly that she jumped every time Allen asked her to do something or go with him to a meeting out of town. "Then I sit back and saw that that was exactly what was going on," she says.


The final beating -- and the last straw with Allen -- occurred when Jill was three months' pregnant, she says. She was in her early 20s. First, she says, Allen found out she was pregnant and stood her up in front of the church during a service and announced it to everyone. He looked at Jill and said, "I told you that nigger was no good." He cautioned the congregation not to make fun of her because "they were gonna have to deal with him," she says.


"That did not make me feel good," Jill says, "because I know how he did people."


Later they met privately in his office. "He said I was being rebellious," Jill says. "I had some kind of spirit on me. He started this crying act -- 'I love you, I love you, I love you...' I was like, yeah, I love you too, but you're not gonna hit me. And we started wrestling and tussling."


Allen, she says, reached for a paddle on a table. Jill fought back, pushing him away as hard as she could. He still managed to get in one lick as she struggled to get to the door. He kept saying her loved her, she says. Jill just told him to let her go.


"I don't know how I got out," she says. "I got out and I just ran up the street. I ran because I refused to lose my baby."


Two hours later, while she was at home, she miscarried. She believes it happened as a direct result of her struggle with Allen.


Later she went to the police, she says. Then, she claims, Allen threatened her. "He told me if I ever tried to ruin him, he would come back for me," she says. "I know how he is and I know the kind of stuff he do. So I didn't try to make no waves. He knew people in high places."


Jill says she approached COGIC authorities when she was 24. She and two other young women asked for a meeting with Superintendent Edward Battles (now deceased), who presided over Allen's district at the time. (District superintendents, however, have virtually no authority over the pastors in their district. The district superintendent is charged with raising a certain amount of money from his churches to make a financial "report" at his bishop's state convocations.)


When they arrived at the meeting at Battles' church, Love Sanctuary COGIC in Fort Worth, Jill was surprised to find several church officials there, including Allen's bishop, J. Neaul Haynes. The meeting was in 1989 or 1990, she says, and Allen was not present.


"We had told him about the things that [Allen] was doing," Jill says, referring to the paddlings. "And we was like, we didn't really think this was right. One of the women said what he was doing was wrong, and that he had a habit -- a bad habit -- and it needs to be broken."


Haynes' reply, according to Jill: "Old habits die hard."


To Jill, the COGIC leaders didn't seem concerned about the allegations. "They didn't believe it," she says. "They just said they'd check into it. And that was it."


Jill never heard again from Haynes or Battles. But she did get "banned" from Shiloh. "The pastor said because of 'all the confusion,' you are no longer welcome at the church, and they [members] were not allowed to talk to me," Jill says.


She knew he meant it, she says, because she was in a grocery store one day and a Shiloh member literally wheeled her cart around and went the other way after spotting Jill. Her mother wouldn't let her sisters talk to her, she says.


For years since then, she says, she hasn't had a normal life. She's never married, never had children. She's experienced serious physical problems. Her relationship with her mother is severely strained. "As long as I was at Shiloh, I was at work, Shiloh people were there, and the minute I'd do something, they'd come calling him [Allen], telling him what I was doing. They picked my friends. They picked where I went.


"This has messed me up," Jill says. "I wasn't able to just have a relationship and have a normal life, period. I had my childhood taken away from me...and it's like I've lost a whole section of my life and can't get it back." --Julie Lyons


Dallas Observer Editorial Assistant Kaitlin Ingram contributed to the reporting for this column.


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101 comments
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Although this article is 5 years old, I wish I had the opportunity to apologize to these women. As a clergyman in the Church of God in Christ I not only represent millions of followers, but I represent God by my words and actions. It hurts to know that some of my fellow brothers commit such acts without regard to future implications. Even worse is the callous response by the leaders of the organization. But equally so are the comments I have read. We are admonished in scripture to PRAY - not just for the victim, but for the perpetrator as well. Because the fact of the matter is, neither of you work in a capacity to deliver "justice" and surely if you did, you would turn your heads in a similar fashion. To Jill: "I am saddened and hurt that you were subjugated to such demeaning acts of shameful behaviour. Though I do not know you and was never a member of Shiloh, I would like to say 'I apologize for the missing empathy. I apologize for the empty concern shown by the leaders of that jurisdiction and district. I apologize that no one extended true Christian Love during your ordeal. I pray that you receive wholeness in your life - a true relationship with a loving God who is just as disgusted at this behaviour as many of us are." I have no motive nor hidden agenda in posting, but after reading this article my heart, mind and consciousness were deeply bothered. Overseer RDV - #dawebpreacha

Anonymous Minister
Anonymous Minister

Personal opinion as a member and only a licensed minister of the Church of God in christ but it is STILL MY OPINION THAT not only should Sherman Allen have been disciplined but Bishop Haynes too because if I as a "Bishop" over a jurisdiction hear of wrong doing especially sexual abuse or misconduct and do nothing then by not doing anything I am just as guilty as the offender.

chaessone
chaessone

Disappearing Jesus minded ministry?This faith message indicates we need more good pastors. Rev. Chul Woo Chang, Paul Chang should review the story.  Dear 최영란 전도사, 최한성 전도사,신경숙 친교부장 and others; Please review the timely message and share with other membersfor the graceful retreat. 이번주말에여름수양회(8/19-8/21) 에 큰축복바드시길 기도합니다특별이관심을 끄는일은 "간증 이나 묵상" 의순서입니다 개인의미음의소감을 양심에서 소사 나는대로 말하는시간인줄압니다 우리교회에서는오래동안 업든 free speech 의 순간인것갔읍니다 이 런 open testimony  시간은 우리교회와우리신앙문제를 회고할 기회라고생각합니다 과거에도교회문제를이르킨때가있었으나"왜 또는 Why?" 하고질문하는 "지능" 이업는실정이 우리교회의 근본 문제인걷 갇씁니다 보내드리는 court testimony 는 fake Columbia MBA Steve H. Park, Fake MD. CUNY faculty Elder Young Kim, MIT Sei Chun, deviant Rev. Won Tae Cha designed false mass murder charges against me and my beloved son, damaging the church for 25 years.이공모와몰약은 (박히재말씀) 우리목사들의 Bible 이된걷 갇읍니다 그들은 흠친교회돈을재판과변호사비용으로썻읍니다 개인들이 교회돈을흠처가기도 했읍니다 이런 인간들이 받는성찬식도있으니 예수님도 정신을 차르시기 어렵답니다 이모든 죄와 교회문제를 "간증하고묵상" 하고 예수님과여러분 자신을 새로찻는수양회가되길 기도합시다 Our church members worry about that plastic garbages or empty cans could estroy the earth. Rembmer the Roman empires or Egyptian kingdomes were not destroyed by any garbages but moral decays or dominant dummies. Our church was ruined by the wise guys and dummies but plastic garbage. We must clean up the fake Christian garbage first. Recently, on August 2, 2011, Elder Dr. Chung Shick Kim called me, “Why did you not show up in the church on the Sunday?" I appreciate his call. He and Elder Young Bin Choo old time members and are responsibly involved in the creation of "the church stink bomb", Of course, Rev. Chul Woo Chang, as the senior pastor, is very responsible for all the scandals. I questioned Dr. Kim, "How Rev. Chang can preach lies on the Sunday pulpits and perform Sacraments in the midst of the scandals? 지금그러치않은목사가사 가 어데있는가? It was his disconnected reply. "As an elder you should correct such situations." was my response. According to his understanding, sadly, ominously, there seems to be no hope for the spiritual recovery of this historic Korean Methodist Church from the smelly scadals. 역사적 우리한인교회장노의 말씀이 이러고보니 한국에서는 기독교를 "개독교" 라고한다는 이유도 알수있지요 참슲은 일입니다 예수님 이저버린 목사들은 안창호 나 서재필 선생을 팔고있는형편입니다  지금우리어린애들은 어느 Sunday School 를가야 하나요? Jesus said, "Leave them alone; they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into 'a korean garbage' dump" Matthew 15:14  신경숙 친교부장 최영란 전도사 최한성 전도사 는 새로운 꿈을보는교회가되여우리교회를 "구출" 하는수양회가되길 기도합니다   Please consult Rev. Young Jin Cho for his faithful advices for our church rescue. Blessings. Chae S. Sone  

Simeon
Simeon

Is Jesus Christ Really the Almighty God? 1) Hebrews 5:8= If Jesus Christ is the Almighty God, as many people claim, why then did he "learn obedience"? Could we ever imagine the ALMIGHTY, who has always been in existence, (Psalms 90:2) and who is all-knowing having to LEARN anything, such as obedience? (Isaiah 46:9,10) Must the MOST HIGH, the HIGHEST BEING in the universe, be obedient to anyone? Rather, it is the Son, Jesus Christ, who had a beginning, the first of all God's creation, who learned obedience. (Colossians 1:15; Revelation 3:14) 2) Acts 3:15; Acts 10:40= A dead person is totally unconscious as shown at Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10, and Psalms 146:3, 4. Now Jesus was dead after he gave his life as a ransom. Acts 2:32, and the Scriptures cited above, all show that God raised Jesus up from the dead. Could Jesus have been God when God was the person who raised him from the dead? The simple truth is, God who was and is always alive, brought Jesus, who was dead for 3 days, back to life. Thus, Jesus cannot be the Almighty God, nor did he ever claim to be. 3) John 20:17= If Jesus is God, the Father, why did he say that he was ascending to the Father? Was Jesus going to himself? Or was he going to someone else, the Father, in a different location, heaven? (Matthew 6:9) Moreover, why does Jesus have a God if he himself is God? Jesus indicated that he had the same God as Mary Magdalene; hence, Jesus worshipped the same God who Mary Magdalene worshipped. Also, if Jesus was God in the flesh as some people say, then are we saying that there were two Gods at that time? i.e. Jesus being God on the earth, and the Father being God in heaven? Jesus certainly would not have misled Mary Magdalene or any other person. Interestingly, while the Son addressed the Father as "my God," NEVER ONCE will we find in the Scriptures that the Father addressed the Son as "my God." Moreover, NOWHERE in the Scriptures will we see the expression, "God the Son." Rather, we will see the expression, "son of God." (John 1:34; Galatians 2:20) Also, we see the expression, "God the Father," (2 Timothy 1:2; 2 Peter 1:17) and rightly so because the Father alone is God, the Almighty. 4) 1 Corinthians 15:28= Why will Jesus Christ subject himself to God if he (Jesus) himself is God? Who will Christ subject himself to in the future when this Scripture is fulfilled? Himself? Or to someone else, God? Would Christ have to subject himself to anyone if he himself is God ALMIGHTY? Can we ever imagine the ALMIGHTY, who was FIRST & ALWAYS in existence, being subject to anyone? (Psalms 90:2) Would Almighty God subject himself to someone He created? So God alone is ALMIGHTY, the MOST HIGH or HIGHEST. (Psalms 83:18) Jesus Christ is God's SON, rightly called the "Son of the Highest." (Luke 1:32; John 3:16) Putting Jesus Christ in his proper place, as God's Son, and second to the Father, in no way downgrade Jesus. Jesus Christ himself humbly acknowledged his position with the Father, being under his Father's authority. (John 5:19; John 6:38; John 7:28, 29) Worthy of note is this: John 3:16 shows that God sent Jesus to the earth. At John 13:16, Jesus indicated that the sender is greater than the one sent. Therefore, since God was the sender, it clearly means that God is greater than Jesus, the one sent. Furthermore, since Jesus was sent from heaven, it means that while in heaven, God remains greater than His Son, Jesus. They are NOT equal in heaven. Jesus himself confirmed that fact by what he stated at John 14:28. 1 Corinthians 15:28 shows that God will always be greater than Jesus Christ. Best wishes, Simeon

JT COGIC
JT COGIC

To All Who have Commented,

Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. Speak no evil one of another, brethren (James 10-11). Be careful while you defame God�s people and His chosen ones. God will judge us all and woe until them which harm and hurt His people. We need to pray for those who fall short and lift them up to restore their faith. Too many people are looking for things that are wrong in people and maybe it�s to make them look better or even make themselves feel better. COGIC is a denomination which stands for Holiness and believes in the whole bible. Just because you are COGIC does not mean you are above reproach. I know for a fact that some of these allegations are unfounded and untrue. I am third generation COGIC and have known the leadership of the church for most of my life. I have been in Law Enforcement for the past 25 years and respect the law and the law of the land. My top three leaders of the church have more integrity then the top law makers in the land.

Whenever a COP can shoot a man in the back while lying on his stomach is a national concern. Whenever there are sexual acts against anyone and our kids most importantly is a major concern. Our leadership is trying to combat a sexual assault on our people. Those evil spirits and you guys are giving those spirits the attention they want. This is what the devil want us to do is divide and fight among ourselves. In other words disagree and be defeated. I am a not defeated and God will not allow us to be defeated. We have to do right and good. Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth not, to him it is sin (James 17). Slandering another person�s name is not right. Be careful to repeat what others say.

Political ambitions can cause some of our leaders to say things which are unfounded and because they said it, people believe it. God will not allow anyone to stand in His way or will with a purpose to defame His Kingdom! He will remove you or that stumbling block and His will must prevail. Bishop Macklin and Bishop Blake are the most unselfish men of God I know and I know a lot of you. Bird of a feather does not have to flock together; maybe its just letting your light shine among all men that they may see the Lord in you? Let your light shine the right way and keep your negative comments to yourself and replace it with prayer. May the peace of the Lord be with you.

Open Rebuke
Open Rebuke

For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad (Luke 8:17-KJV).

For there is nothing hidden that shall not be disclosed, nor anything secret that shall not be known and come out into the open (amplified bible).

Anonymous
Anonymous

For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad (Luke 8:17-KJV).

For there is nothing hidden that shall not be disclosed, nor anything secret that shall not be known and come out into the open (amplified bible).

No longer a memeber of COGIC
No longer a memeber of COGIC

GOD is not pleased!!!!! If there is any covering up ...GOD will exposed it. Ilove COGIC I was rasied and taught the teachings but there is alot going on. It is praying time.

James
James

First of all you have to be really really gullable, dumb, or stupid to let somebody paddle you and you are a grown woman. Pastor, Bishop, Pope, or whoever is still a human fleshly being which makes them a candidate for an old fashioned beat down. Yall need to quit making these people next to God in your life and get some common sense. This is ridiculous and Sherman Allen he so small in stature, you can literally kick him across the room. Be for real i don't feel sorry for none of them woman. They are all so stupid for allowing him to get that close.

JOlie BELONGS TO J-h!
JOlie BELONGS TO J-h!

Disappointed COGIC Member says: I am gravely disappointed in the whole notion that COGIC Pastor could be accused of the things that Pastor Allen is being accused of. It would be one thing if there was only one person making the accusation, but there are eight. Eight seperate women who were victimized by the same man and might I add, their stories are very similar. This should give you an indication that something went wrong and somebody is not making this up.I guess I should be surprised at all. After all COGIC has covered up a lot of indiscretion of it's pastors, mostly Bishops. Just recently we were hearing that Bishop Macklin in California was accused of alleged sexual indescretions with an underage girl. It was rumored that COGIC paid her off to the sum of $300,000 to keep silent.It never reached the media, however it found its way around COGIC pretty fast.Its ashamed that we will elevate men (women) who live worse than the worst sinner while we keep the person who is really trying to live godly on the fringes.I remember years ago we had to endure three years of preaching from Pastor Nathan Simmons who is a known homosexual, while praying, fasting and well able people sat down. I am just hoping that COGIC will take this as a wake-up call and start taking seriously the allegations and do quality investigations before they dismiss it as a waist of time or as someone just trying to get some money. Because the way it looks somebody is going to get paid and I don't mean just the lawyers.

RESPONSE: WHERE IS YOUR PROOF THAT PROPHET NATHAN L. SIMMONS WAS A HOMOSEXUAL DEVIL. YOU ARE THE HOMOSEXUAL, AND THE ONLY REASON YOU ARE RESPONDING THAT WAY, IN THE HOLY GHOST, THERE WAS A MEETING AND MY BROTHER CALLED OUT THAT PARTICULAR SPIRIT AND BECAUSE YOU STRUGGLE WITH THAT CHEIF, YOU ARE REACTING TO THE REBUKE,DEU. 28-WATCHED WHAT YOU SAY OR YOU SHALL RECIEVE THE LATTER...READ IT. THUS SAITH THE LORD. PS-IF YOU WANT TO CONTACT ME, I CAN BE REACHED AT WWW.MYSPACE.COM/NEWJERUSALEM123. A CRYING SHAME..A CRYING AND A SHAME! JOlie.

JOlie BELONGS TO J-h!
JOlie BELONGS TO J-h!

Disappointed COGIC Member says: I am gravely disappointed in the whole notion that COGIC Pastor could be accused of the things that Pastor Allen is being accused of. It would be one thing if there was only one person making the accusation, but there are eight. Eight seperate women who were victimized by the same man and might I add, their stories are very similar. This should give you an indication that something went wrong and somebody is not making this up.I guess I should be surprised at all. After all COGIC has covered up a lot of indiscretion of it's pastors, mostly Bishops. Just recently we were hearing that Bishop Macklin in California was accused of alleged sexual indescretions with an underage girl. It was rumored that COGIC paid her off to the sum of $300,000 to keep silent.It never reached the media, however it found its way around COGIC pretty fast.Its ashamed that we will elevate men (women) who live worse than the worst sinner while we keep the person who is really trying to live godly on the fringes.I remember years ago we had to endure three years of preaching from Pastor Nathan Simmons who is a known homosexual, while praying, fasting and well able people sat down. I am just hoping that COGIC will take this as a wake-up call and start taking seriously the allegations and do quality investigations before they dismiss it as a waist of time or as someone just trying to get some money. Because the way it looks somebody is going to get paid and I don't mean just the lawyers.

RESPONSE: WHERE IS YOUR PROOF THAT PROPHET NATHAN L. SIMMONS WAS A HOMOSEXUAL DEVIL. YOU ARE THE HOMOSEXUAL AND THE ONLY REASON YOU ARE RESPONDING THAT WHY, IN THE HOLY GHOST, THERE WAS A MEETING AND MY BROTHER CALLED OUT THAT PARTICULAR SPIRIT AND BECAUSE YOU STRUGGLE WITH THAT CHEIF, YOU ARE REACTING TO THE REBUKE.DEU. 28-WATCHED WHAT YOU SAY OR YOU SHALL RECIEVE THAT LATTER...READ IT. THUS SAITH THE LORD. PS-IF YOU WANT TO CONTACT ME, I CAN BE REACHE AT WWW.MYSPACE.COM/NEWJERUSALEM123. A CRYING SHAME..A CRYING AND A SHAME! JOlie.

COGICBOI
COGICBOI

I THINK WE ALL HAVE MADE MISTAKES... SOME OF YOUR PASTORS HAVE MADE MISTAKES AND PASTOR ALLEN MADE A MISTAKE!!!!! POINT BLANK... THE ONLY DIFF. IN PASTOR ALLENS MISTAKE AND SOME OF OUR PASTORS MISTAKES IS... HE GOT CAUGHT!!! BUT AS FAR AS MI BISHOP HE IS A MAN OF GOD!!! I BELIEVE HE IS CALLED BY GOD AND YOU CAN NEVER BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU HEAR OR READ!!! I CAN GET ON HERE AND TYPE A 3 PAGE LONG STORY ABOUT YOU AND IT CAN BE A BIG LIE AND SOME ONE WILL BELIEVE IT... AS LONG AS HE ASKED GOD TO FORGIVE HIM AND GOD FORGAVE HIM!!! THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS... BUT MY PASTOR SAYS IT SO MANY TIMES!!! THE BIBLE SAYS THAT GOD WILL TOSS IT IN THE SEA OF FORGEATFULNESS AND REMEMBER IT NO MORE!!! BUT PEOPLE WILL PUT ON A DIVEING SUIT AND JUMP IN THE WATER AND BRING IT BACK UP!!! ASK YOUR SELF ARE YOU PUTTING ON A DIVEING SUIT?????????? GOD FORGAVE HIM NOW LET US DO THE SAME BECAUSE IF THE TRUTH BE TOLD SOME OF US HAS DONE AND IS DOING SOME WORSE THINGS THAN HIM BUT WE JUST HAVE NOT GOTTEN CAUGHT! REMEMBER HE IS A PASTOR BUT HE IS ONLY HUMAN AND JUST BECAUSE HE IS A PASTOR DOES NOT MEAN HE CAN NOT MAKE A MISTAKE OR FALL!!! GOD BLESS YOU!!! "PLEASE FORGIVE MY MISPELLED WORD"

Anonymous
Anonymous

mUGGGED jESUS:

OPEN HEARTS, OPEN MIND, OPEN DOORS!! WHERE THEY ARE?

Dear Jesus! I am the Korean Bishop Jeremiah J. Park. What can I do for you in this Christmas and this New Year?

Jesus said, Bishop Park! Bring back Judas stolen my money to my Korean Church !! ??? ?? Kocean Bishop Jeremiah Park ??? ????? ?? ? Christmas ? ?? ? ??? ?? ?????

???? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ?

??? ? ??? ??? ???? ? ? ? ? ??

?? ? ?? ??? ??? ? ? ???? ? ???? !!

Thursday, January 21, 2010 Dear Bishop Jeremiah J. Park:

Greetings.Please let me write you again in honor of your Episcopacy in good faith that your office should investigate the sinful actions taken against the innocent family by Rev. Won Tae Cha and other criminal elements in this historic Korean church. So far, regrettably you and other clergies have done great pastoral injustice by ignoring our requests.WHO LIED TO THE JUDGE THE MURDER CHARGES WERE CHURCH-RELATED?Please tell to our family members, our congregation, and to the world why the Korean United Methodist Church and Institute financially supported Steve Park�s false accusations that my son and I was going to kill him, his family, his lawyer, and our Korean church members. Steve Park was the former chairman of the board who sworn in his deposition that he has an MBA from Columbia University which the university denied, stated he had only a bachelor�s degree.Reverend Won Tae Cha, Steve H. Park, and the Judas conspirators succeeded placing me and my son on trial as mass murderers at the New York State Supreme Court, which emotionally and financially devastated and defamed our family because, as the chairman of the Board, I tried to protect the Church�s Building Trust Fund from the abusers. My only sin to them was to protect the trust fund.Especially remarkable Judas scenario appeared when Rev. Won Tae Cha, fake M.D. Young So Kim, Elder Yang and other running dogs come to the court in support of the cases. Mrs. Sung Kuk Hahm from KANCC, her husband was the chairman of it, anxiously wanted to be an interpreter for the mass murder trial � all in Jesus� masks. The judge rejected her services as a pro North Korean Communist.With the stolen church money, they paid for their parties and legal fees to torture me, my son, and my wife. However, we were not able to hire a full defense attorney for us because we could not offer one. We acted pro se. The church insurers must have defended us according to the church rules.HARD TRUTH: A HIJACKED CHURCHPractically, Reverend Won Tae Cha and his Judas group cleverly hijacked the church and its assets. Then, they were able to finance three frivolous cruel lawsuits against our family members, even charged us as mass murderers, threatening demand $8.000,000.00 in damages to cover up the embezzlement. Unexpectedly, their attorney wanted get out the case, offering us $5,000. We rejected as it matter more with the honor than the money.During the murder trial, according to the Judge F. Dana Winslow�s own words, someone from the Episcopacy said to him that the murder charges were church-related. Yes! Someone did a holy lie.So far, as the bishop, you have coldly stonewalled without answering to our numerous agonizing questions�who met with the judge? Superintendent Noel N. Chin, an impersonator of the bishop, or you should answer honestly to us �Who told the lie to the judge that the murder charges were church-related?� Now, the Korean �church-gate� could develop into the �bishop-gate.� If so,

could this bishop-gate be more notorious than Watergate?

CONSCIENCE DRIVEN SEDUCTIVE STORMY LIFE CYCLES

The two smart wise guys, Eliot Spitzer and Tigerwood were neither clever nor strong enough to stick to their famed powerful positions even in disguise although the church guys did, but suddenly fell to the disgrace from the public trusts when their betrayal exposed to the world.

In contrast, the powerful conscience inevitably drove Ms. Peguero to confess her sins to a priest and freed the innocent man once she sent as her rapist for twenty five years prison. But the born again Peguero bravely proved her faith in confession by freeing the innocent victim after two year prison life although she, as a mother of two children, has to suffer seven year prison term to pay back for her crime in His dignity. May God bless Ms. Peguero and her children.

HEAVENLY HAND FOILED THE JIJACER

Sodom Gomorra was destroyed as there were not enough worthy people in the eyes of God.

But, today, we are hopeful in America as there are more than enough morally sensitive worthy Americans intact to our value system in His eyes as the testimony in the Spitzer-Tigerwood-Peguero scenarios - All of them felt painful agony of their astray in the seductive life cycles.

ones Even the almighty intervened in the Nigerian bomber on Delta airline to save the loved from the 2009 Christmas disaster as the heavenly blessings for the Americans in this holy day season.

As there was "No Dotting at the warning messages," the devil could come through the deep sleepy long hollow even under the floundered watchful eyes so far so easily as to the ignition point of the hellfire on Delta Airline at the Detroit Airport.

But, at the very moment, the Merciful hand foiled the evil trigger. In this way God surely blessed all Americans for the Christmas in these hard times.

Definitely the high moral sensitivity seems to have functioned more vitally well among the common Americans to get His attention than the privileged church hijackers in greedy struggle for biased existence in blood muddy sewers.

The rise and fall of one�s fortune appears tangled with its moral values in time. In this church, there seems to be more than the four poverty stricken Roman soldiers of the rich Empire, who shared the crucified poor homeless Jesus' clothes in four parts - Perhaps more vicious than the money hungry Judas. Major Philip Wise Two gunmen who shot and killed the Salvation Army major Philip Wise, 40, in front of his wife and his three young adopted children,4. 6. 7 on Christmas Eve on Thursday, Wise's wife, Cindy called 911. Gunmen were stupid as they killed the Goodman without getting any money. See these smart Korean Methodist pastors and running dogs who stolen the church money and tried to demonize the innocent family to cover up the stealing with the church mobs, now refusing the audit in violation of Book of Discipline. Ironically it is known that the annual conference gave her 50,000 aid to her illicit ministry as if an incentive for the money laundry with no shame. Which group is better or worse than the others?

AUDIT THE STOLEN MONEYWhen Ms. Kwang Hee Kim became the chairwoman of the Board, she could recover from the state some of the negligently abandoned trust fund by the smart 9 trustee members. The abandonment should be investigated if criminally oriented.On July 15, 2007, the church passed Ms. Kwang Hee Kim�s proposal to audit the financial records from 2000. Reverend Chang at the time stated, �I will do it with two other people.� But, he is still stalling the audit. On December 14, Mr. Hyun Joong Kim made an additional proposal to recover the abused trust fund from the abusers. Reverend Chang is protecting his mentor, Reverend Won Tae Cha, who is responsible for all this church corruption. In fact, after the frivolous lawsuits were dismissed, the New York State Attorney General and the Judge advised the church to recover the stolen money from the abusers. (Bk of Dis).But, following the end of the court cases, the stability only short-lived as Rev. Chul Woo Chang has followed his mentor Rev. Won Tae Cha against His will.We as well as many others believe that Reverend Chul Woo Chang and Reverend Won Tae Cha campaigned for your election as bishop. Although they are your political patrons, you, as the bishop, are now obliged to follow the church rules, the state and federal laws, and obey God and to clean up the embezzlement of the church money and other anti-Christian attacks against innocent church members. However, you apparently failed to act promptly as a bishop. This church is located only a few blocks away from your Inter-Church Office. Didn�t you smell the stinks as yet? Therefore, your standing is morally ambiguous in dealing with these criminals. Why do you tolerate the church to pay for the abusers� legal fees with the stolen church money which violates the church rules? Did you not know they usurped the name of church to pursue these frivolous lawsuits?

Contrary to the church rules and your oath of office, why do you place the church on the ugly Judas' side? Are you spiting onto the face of Christ? Why do you reward these anti-Christian criminal offenders? The church should not be allowed to become "a Judas' den�.If you can not comprehend, ask the Sunday school kids!! The youngsters might have a better answer for you from the Sunday school lessons.

YOUR OFFICIAL STANDING RESEMBLES ARCHIBISHOP EGAN�S' CATHOLICCRIMINAL COVER-UPSThe Boston scandals in 2002 engulfed the entire Catholic Church when the accounts of priests, preying on children and being moved among parishes and shielded by their bishops while their accusers were ignored or bullied into silence, were revealed by the Boston Globe. Archbishop Edward Egan of New York betrayed the trust when his false testimony in numerous trials became known.The entire picture of the scandals demonstrated a deeply corrupt and inept church leadership. Evidently, the church leaders had lied before God and to the congregation while covering up their pastoral sins in the name of Christ. Their sacrament appeared to be nothing more than sharing communion among the liars - Like Madoff Champaign.The church under your UMC leadership has acted unjustly like Egan�s administration, ostracizing, poking, demonizing the victims in discrimination and prejudicing newcomers in hostile manner.Thus, Reverend Chang and you tactically created an unfriendly, brain washed hostile environment in the church. Thus the church is literally under such dirty water. The abrasive words are nothing but the reflections of their resistance to justice.The catastrophic mistakes for the Bishop seem to be the misinformation received from the Superintend Chin and local clergies who twisted the truth. Now Rev. Chang brought all of those dangerous money laundering litigants on the church positions with voting power to reinforce his position as his mentor. The long time financial officer Mr. Rhim threatened to call police to stop my complaint of the money laundry schemes and the church financed murder changes against our family to the Charge Conference on December 16th. I responded, call them, "If they come, they will arrest you first." For he is one of the team.It seems to be another danger signal coming from their tricks against us, flexing the reset embezzlers� muscles � Another inquisition with murder charges in reversed Christianity. Best cure for the church is to reeducate or remove them from the positions. Otherwise, more ugly legal problems could re-arise as the mess gets worse every day by day under these unconfident brutal leaders. Do not rely on the brain washed, polluted lower IQ church officers!! For their souls are pollution damaged or in self obsolescence. Thus, Jesus said the Kingdom of heaven belongs to the children with no pollution. Mt 19;14-15.Under the circumstances, all Korean clergies and Christians could ask Ms. Peguero for guidance how to confess before God. DEMANDS UNDER THE CHURCH RULES

Your responsibilities as bishop are as follows: 1Name the person(s) who told the lie to the judge that the murder charges against us were church-related. 2Order Reverend Chul Woo Chang and the officers of the Korean United Methodist Church and Institute to start the audit according to the Book of Discipline.3After the audit is completed, order the pastor and the officers to seek legal action to recover the money from those who stole it and to make an insurance claim for money missing if the theft cannot be recovered. The church belongs to God, the pastor and the congregation must obey the church rules, the State and Federal laws. (The church rules require audit the financial records; bond and buy liability insurances for financial officers)4Make sure Mr. Paul Choi continues to repay the $70,000 he embezzled from the church as agreed upon with the New York State Attorney General�s office.5Appoint an impartial committee to investigate the embezzlement and lawsuits against my family and to investigate the character of Reverend Chul Woo Chang and Reverend Won Tae Cha who continue to defame the church, my family and I as if we have benefited from these lawsuits.6Order Reverend Chang, Reverend Cha, and church leaders who have hurt my family apologize to me, my son, and my wife and to the congregation. These demands are in honor of this historic church to be rescued from these evil hijackers. Remember Jesus said: "My house will be called a house of prayer, but you are making it a 'den of robbers.� (Matthew 21:12-13)

Dear Bishop Jeremiah J. Park! Our family respectfully submits you to accomplish your duty that you have the God-given power and authority to keep this church as �a house of prayer." It is a God given golden opportunity for you to realize your loyal duty as the bishop for God and for the Korean United Methodist Church. Please remember this historic ?????? near Columbia University, New York City.

May God bless you for His services. Sincerely yours in Christ, Chae S. Sone Kyung Kim Sone Paul M. Sone REFERENCESFor reference, please check our previous letters sent to your office on this matter. Or, request copies of the letters sent to Reverend Chul Woo Chang, which would give you the history of these legal actions. You can learn from their depositions how they viciously conspired to torture our family.

Furthermore, you must get the court transcripts about the trials from the State Supreme Court in Manhattan and in Nassau County so that you can see for yourself how the church embezzled from the Building Trust Fund to finance the various illegal actions. Especially the transcripts of the sanctions hearings would cost $1,300 which will be educational for the bishop to the smart or ugly Koreans in Christian masks. Websites1. �A Bishop�s Words� on Archbishop Edward Egan�s lies. New York Times, Editorial, December 6, 2009 2. In Good Faith: United Methodists win advertising award - A ...RE: IN-CHURCH CLEANING. ESTABLISHED CHURCHES ?????. Dear leaders in Christ. ... 3. Comments on: Introducing the United Methodist (Rethink) ChurchComments on: Introducing the United Methodist (Rethink) 5. Three Ways To truly Rethink Church in NYC " The New 6.Methodists Posted by: chae s. Sone at August 26, 2008 .. 6. A petition to Bishop Jeremiah J. Park to recover misused Church money. ...7. June 12, 2009 ~ Brad Braxton | Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly chae s. some Says: Riverside Church, New York 9/19/2009 it needs to rethink Jesus and family, revisit the soft words of each one's ....8. Impeach For Peace " Torture is Not a Methodist Family Value Torture is Not a Methodist Family Value. Filed under: Impeachment .9. Biurny Peguero confessed her sins to a priest to free the innocent victim. AP Dec. 10, 2009, NY Times, Dec. 11, 200910.???? '??' ??? ?? ?? ?? .11. �Methodist politics corruption.� New York Times. April 10, 1982.12.. ??? ?????, ?? ?? ?? ??? This article can Phase on Internet and auto translated. NJ Calvary Korean Methodist church's court order to audit the finance.13. ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?. Amenet.news14. Insider theft a big problem for small charitiesRecession, lack of safeguards heighten risk for little nonprofitsBy Elizabeth Schwinn. MSNBC.com 15. U.S. Salvation Army major shot, stolen his kettle for the needy youth. December 26, 2009 - 5:24AM

Let us keep our church faithfully. Please send good advices to the leaders.

Comments. Feed back: ?? ? ??? ?? ???? ?? ?? ? ?? ? ?? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Bishop Park and others: bishop@nyac.com, eswiggett@nyac.com; dwinkleblack@nyac.com, media@hosanna.net. Rev.Chang; chang.kmci@gmail.com; joysdesign@gmail.com,Csone@optonline.net

Dr. B
Dr. B

All I can say is God has more respect for Bishop Yvette Flunder and the Fellowship than the Church of God In Cash!!!

adixjr
adixjr

if we look at the seven churches in revelations you'll cogic under the church that had a name but wasn't living according to the word. although we have many that yet hold the standard, so many have let it down. we need to address these issues at our spring call meeting but we have a very arrogant chair that only wants to hold the position and crack jokes. its pitiful whats allowed in the church today. there's a well oiled machine in place (our leadership), these men are intelligent, demonic, and its going to take God to bring them down. we as saints should continue to cry out against wrong regardless of the position. this is yet a great church but we we've got to screen and root out. God bless and keep.

MusicBoy
MusicBoy

Look up Willie Arnold Texarkana Gazette TX for more COGIC sexual misconduct...

MS.J
MS.J

THIS IS FOR PASTOR J. FIRST OF ALL YOU SHOULD READ MORE BEFORE YOU MAKE ACCUSATIONS. THE POLICE WERE NOTIFIED SO GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT. YOU OF ALL PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW NOT TO JUDGE. YOU CAN SAY A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT THIS CASE BUT WHAT IF THE SHOE WAS ON THE OTHER FOOT AND IT WAS YOUR DAUGHTER, NIECE THEN WHAT HUH!

Sister Temeca
Sister Temeca

But who are they that will not endure sound doctrine? Some have supposed that this could not mean Christians, and that it must mean the world or antichrist. But when, we ask, has the world or antichrist ever endured sound doctrine? Did the world, the Jews or pagans, endure the sound doctrine set forth by Christ and his apostles, in their days? Did the carnal Israelites endure the sound doctrine that was reported to them by the prophets? Which of them did they not slay? The truth has, in all times since sin entered the world, been opposed by the world, and by all unconverted men. We cannot therefore suppose that the Spirit spake thus expressly of a time when nothing unusual was to be revealed. These non-endurers of sound doctrine are marked as apostates, thus, "Some shall depart from the faith." We do not understand that these apostates are the children of God, born of the Spirit, or that they ever possessed the vital principles of faith in their hearts. But we do contend that they are those who have professed the faith of the gospel, and have been held in the fellowship of the church of God, otherwise they could not depart from what they never professed to hold. Christ has said, "Every plant that my Father hath not planted shall be rooted up." And again, "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh away."

To read the rest clickhttp://www.geocities.com/Heart...

THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUNIT IS THE END TIMES AND WOW TO THOSE WHOSE TRUST IS IN MAN AND NOT GOD!!!!

Sister Temeca
Sister Temeca

Let the Word Speak for itself!

Romans 1:25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen.

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." 2Tim 4:3-4

Romans 1:14-32I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish: 15 so I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel: it is the power of God for salvation to every one who has faith, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed through faith for faith; as it is written, �He who through faith is righteous shall live.� 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; 21 for although they knew God they did not honour him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonouring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonourable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. 29 They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God�s decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practise them.

James M.
James M.

I was raised in COGIC in KY and it's the same everywhere... Long story short; there are a lot of pervs and if you allow them to take advantage of you then that's your fault...

Anonymous
Anonymous

It's very sad & disappointing to hear about all the recent scandals going on in the COGIC. My parents were saved and Spirit-filled in this organization back in the 1960's. My dad saw some things he didn't like even back then and established his own organization in GA, FL, and AL (Revival Church, Incorp.). I'm sure he'll be heartbroken to learn about this mess.

I hope and pray that the ones responsible for the abuse get taken down from their position and that they answer before the law of this land. Ultimately, they'll have to answer to God Himself. Until then, I also pray the victims find forgiveness and peace and do not lose their faith in Jesus Christ.

gcmwatch
gcmwatch

Tired, please contact me asap. Complete anonymity assured.

May God keep your heart and soul.

Tired of the lies
Tired of the lies

There is a lot of homosexual activity and abuse in the church. This is something that needs to be brought to the light. There are many young people being abused and the truth is not being revealed. They say the devil is a liar but many of these preachers are lying. To break this down in a nutshell the devil knows the bible backwards and forwards and what happens in the chuch when pastors and preachers abuse their members they know the bible backwards and forwards and use it as a tool to take advantage of someone new in the spirit. The ones who claim to be prophets and apostles and other titles are some of the worst manipulators. It is unfortanate that I spent three years traveling with a well known pastor who was a homosexual and watch as he went from church to church and fellowshiped with other pastors that were homosexuals and these men were married and so was he and it was a secret that the women knew nothing about. This particular man was abusing teenage young black men. All while fasting and praying and laying on hands and telling us that this sinful sexual activity was in the name of God. We were told that we had to participate in the activities as a covering to keep us abstinant from sex with women. We were young many of us from broken homes and we beleived everything he said in the name of God. These type of pastors are not above using annointing oil for thier sinful sexual homosexual activities. What I am saying is the honest truth and it needs to be known that things like this are happening. I don't feel the same about church anymore as far as the four walls go. But I still love the Lord and because of this experience I can spot a down low homosexual pastor in a minute and there are many of them. As far as the COGIC Pastor getting murdered for what he tryed to do to that young man, justice was served.

Evangelist Katrina Poland
Evangelist Katrina Poland

Oh boy! Somebody's upset. Well, I just wanted to say this...Being a licensed Evangelist through the Church Of God In Chrsit, I'm unhappy with all of the drama that has continuously been carried out. Now, first of all, the BIBLE did not instruct ANY clergyman to put their hands on ANYONE, except for praying, and you even have to be careful with that! I have heard a preacher here in Chicago, sit up and call the congregations of about 5 members, NIGGAS, and his Jurisdictional Prelate did not sit him down. As far as Prophet Nathan L. Simmons, neither I nor you were with him, so we really do not know. And remember, he has 2 daughters, and it's not good to say those things, not knowing the response in the future, of their reactions. All of these men were not called to be these prominent leaders, they called themselves, actions speaks. MONEY, POWER, is the KEY amongst leaders. Bishop Mason was broke, but God blessed him to build what God wanted him to do. He served his purpose. I know that I could call off a scroll of crookedness within leadership in the Church Of God In Christ, and how the Bishops just doesn't deal with the afflictions, that are left on the sheep, God sees it. I was wounded from my own, about my book publishing, and it had nothing to do with them, but a district missionary caused me to see her different, because she out right lied to my Bishop's wife about my book. Did I waste my time, no I did not. I've seen toooooo much, even as a child and teen. I was forced into knowing the truth, visually, not through gossip. I see and understand the hurt. But if I wasn't saved, Pastor Allen, I would has kicked his behind, and slapped him with the paddle, proof would have shown the effects. Sorry, but it's for anybody, man, woman, boy, or girl! But thank God for salvation. And sheep must be taught, not to put trust in no man, not even in your leader, because he is subject to make mistakes. But, in this case, it's stupidity. The world law has to deal with him. The only solution is PRAYER! One thing, the late, Bishop C. H. Mason, Apostle Charles O. Miles, and Nathan Simmons, we must PRAY!! That is the only answer to all of the problems. Let's love each other, God will do the rest!

FormerCogicmember
FormerCogicmember

to: RDMiller and Prophet

Have you slept with the bishops you consider homosexuals. Then don't accuse. COGIC is a cult full of low esteemed ne'er do wells that could not make it in the real world therefore they hide under the guise of Christianity and clothes that match, cars they can't afford, screaming and riffing and calling it singing, referring to each other as doc, and prelate. Foolish and laughable. All emotion and no substance. Sad... Pathetic

ElderBLG
ElderBLG

Anyone that will embrace or even accept the tacticts of Pastor Sherman Allen is too a disgrace.I'm quite sure that God wouldn't have to put his hands or any object on a child simply because they've misbehaved.Just as you would talk to an adult when you need to express yourself,you should talk to children.As a pastor I would never beat someone until they turned purple.Now, for Pastor J: Nice Scripture,but "What if you're daughter was Jill?",What would you do?Saints especially those of Higher Praise MI I ask that you don't look at this as a replica of the entire COGIC,and please continue to pray for Pastor Allen,because he still is our brother through Christ.

Vrr
Vrr

re:Elder Miller,

Good point Elder Miller, very good point. Even know Sherman Allen is no longer apart of COGIC he's still preaching Wednesday nights and Sundays as if nothing happen. I think as one person mentioned, the members have to step up and hold him accountable because you just can't continue to go online preaching without members still supporting him.

Hopefully if his congregation won't hold him accountable the lawsuit against him and COGIC will.

Elder R D Miller
Elder R D Miller

Even though we are all human...Pastors Bishops Every one who works in the Ministry is held to a higher Accountability, point blank pastor sherman should hav been severly disciplined. Its a shame that the cogic operates like a police dept where they adhere 2 a code of silence. Its only when the likes of Bishop J D Husbands...German R Ross, L C Patton, Bishop Haynes are exposed can the church further its cause...cogic stands against homosexuality yet it runs rampant in the church frm choir directors 2 well known bishops. Cogic has a "Do not touch my anointed do my prophet no harm" Type of reaction to most all allegations of sexual misconduct...as long as u can Preach, raise money, and speak in "tounges" they pretty much allow you to operate with immunity. How many women have to be abused, sexually intimidated, raped, until the leaders of the cogic wake up

doctor.kj
doctor.kj

I am not COGIC, but I have many friends within the COGIC organization. I have to agree with Pastor J, God is going to sift the church. Not only COGIC, but all churches. Only the righteous shall see God.

We must also remember that we are talking about men (women), not GOD himself. These Bishops and Pastors are earthly flesh and have to fight against the same temptations and struggles that you and I fight. Just because they are Bishop or Pastor doesn't exclude them from the temptations of the devil.

The question is as followers of these men, What do we do? The members of these churches have to stand up and say this is unacceptable. Without the members there is no congregation.

pastor stewart
pastor stewart

To my cogic family first i believe, it is not appropiate nor in order to conduct ourselves in a way that would bring reproach to our lord jesus christ and our church, by debating or coming off as being rude to other members of the body of christ nor just any person. the word says to shun the very appearance of evil, entertaining or aggressively defending our brother and sisters is wrong, God is the one who will have the final say in all matters. i to was upset at some comments made and was tempted to respond, but i thought about it how would our lord respond, we all love bishop mason and the leaders in our church, but we dont want to react like peter when they laid hold of jesus, he cut their ear off, and what did christ say about that. wrong or right as christians we will be attacked by people, however they have the right to say what they will, but as christians our transformed lives, will love all ignorant commentors realizing its not them but the enemy uses them. and if the accusations are true real christians and this is how you will know the degree of thier relationship with God, will restore a brother or sister over taken in any fault, we do not condone wrong, but we do forgive and we allow the us justice system to handle all inappropiate behavior, the the church will follow with their discipline. to much tension lets fast and pray

Prophet
Prophet

I am very aware of some of the scandals in the COGIC. I have held various positions in COGIC from local to national. What COGIC will not tell you is that we had a bishop on the presidium who was a convicted felon, and also had a bishop who has since passed away, was homosexual and a pedophile. That same bishop mortgaged the churches in his jurisdiction for his benefit. He was defrocked by the cogic but at his death was given a COGIC bishop's funeral and the COGIC web site has his messages for sale. Time would not permit me to tell of all the scandals, of the homosexuality, the rampant womanizing, women having babies by their pastors. We do have bishops on the board today, who I dare say God has set them down in heaven. They may be still active here, but their record is marked in heaven. I have personally known quite a few of the higher level bishops in COGIC. I have witnessed the elevations of clergy to authority due to their financial giving and because they "new something on someone". Bishop J.O. Patterson had children out of wedlock; this has been proven, legally of course. Some of you wonder why the Jurisdictional Bishops refuse to discipline pastors; its is because some of those same bishops are engaging in the same activities. I know this from fact, not hear say. Anyone can challenge me, but the record is in heaven. Maybe we need to ask why was Bishop Levi Willis allowed to stay on the Board, Why was Bishop J. D. Husband allowed, what was Bishop G.R. Ross allowed to keep his Bishopric. I heard a bishop of the COGIC speak out against another Bishop from another organization, but yet COGIC has questionable behavior. COGIC has an elitist attitude. An attitude of being untouchable, this is a legalistic attitude. I love the cogic, but change needs to happen. Blessings.

Anonymous
Anonymous

What have the COGIC come to? This is what happen when you have money taking over and when you pick a pastor that can bring I the money and not the soul.

Sincerely, A minister that has been cheated

Anonymous
Anonymous

What have the COGIC come to? This is what happen when you have money taking over and when you pick a pastor that can bring I the money and not the soul.

Amazed
Amazed

"I notice that sometime you are pro-COGIC and other time you are anti-COGIC, am I mistaken? Are you one of the Allen's alleged victims?" Pastor J

Pastor J: What you should have noticed is that I am pro-righteousness. I stand on the side of right. I'm not going to endorse someone or an organization, knowing good and very well that they have committed a crime, all in the name of loyalty.

Pastor J, where does your loyalty lie? I can tell you that I am loyal only to God. How about you? It appears to me that you want to defend Allen just because he is a COGIC pastor. That's utter nonsense.

And for the record... I have not been, am not, and will never be one of Allen's victims. This is not a put down to Allen's victims, but let me say this... Allen does not have enough sermons, spells, cursed water, leather belts, paddles, prophetic conferences, COGIC connections, money, and manipulation tactics to victimize me. And if he tried, he would have been a victim instead...

Let me ask you a question... Are you one of Allen's victims? Hmmm... Just wondering. You seemed a little brainwashed yourself.

Tom87
Tom87

It is not surprising that something like this would take place in Texas, where paddling is so ingrained in the culture (witness the Jessica Serafin case). Kids are conditioned from an early age to associate butt-beating with authority and righteous correction, to the point that even as adults they may be slow to recognize bad motives in someone proposing such methods to "straighten them out."

Of course, this kind of sexual exploitation more often happens to minors, since legally they are fairer game for corporal punishment, and may as alleged here serve as a gateway to more serious violation. If you think that's far-fetched, just Google search spanking and "sexual abuse".

"It's About Time"
"It's About Time"

To all of you on this site; I would like to inform you all that there is approximately 200-300 victims in the DFW area, that have been abused by the right DR. Sherman Clifton Gee Allen IN THE SIMULAR MANNER AS THE OTHER 8.

I personally have spoken with many of these people who were attempting to come forth with the alligations but were later discouraged to press further by District, and State officials of the COGIC church.

It's amazing to me how so many people are willing to discount the stories of these women, though many of them were weak constitutionally and of low-self esteem. The stories are true!

You don't even have the time nor the space to hear from all of the victims. I am not a victim! Believe That! In such a situation for me the outcome would definitely have been totally different for Little Dr. Allen! I can go all the way back to as far as 1985, when I first remember coming into contact with the allegations of the members of the then Allem Memorial COGIC; being whipped for being bad!

It was first reported that he;(Pastor Allen) Had a large black leather belt that he used to whip his members. I laughed; whenever I was told that grown people would be getting a whipping in the church by the Pastor; I thought that it was just a JOKE!

As it turns out, everything that I was hearing was true! During this time period Pastor Allen worked at a Candle shop in Fort Worth, on Hemphill, turning Terrot cards in the back of the store for people who wanted their fortunes told.

The Elders, Superintendants, and the Bishops were well aware of who Sherman Allen was, because of His association with the Spiritualist Church where he acquired the title of "Bishop." Upon coming into the fellowship of the COGIC church, he was required to only refrain from being addressed as Bishop!

There are some stories that would literally cause you to shake in your shoes! Pastor Allen has been successful at doing what he has done for so long because he banked on the fact that he leaders of the church would never beleive the people of the church over and against his own word.

It has been stated by himself; that he knows too much dirt on many of the other members of the clergy to even be worried about being exposed and ousted for the general assembly of the COGIC church.

I have often wondered why the many anointed heavy hitters who were invited to speak as a guest @ Shilo Institutional COGIC church never discerned the need to minister to Pastor Allen? NOTE: This is no new problem with Pastor Allen, it's been going on far quite a while!

Pastor Allen is a known "warlock" who knows the art of practicing "VOODOO" well! VOODOO divides and conquers! The persons on this bloggers site should see what I am saying from the fact that aspecially those persons who are supposed to be either pastors or members of the COGIC church, are swiftly divided and soon tearing away at each other.

If you do not come to yourselves soon, the "WOLF" will win out over the "SHEEP."

My brothers and my sisters; WHO SIDE ARE YOU ON?

IT'S ABOUT TIME!!!!!

Pastor Stephen F. Smith
Pastor Stephen F. Smith

The Church of God in Christ will survive despite all of these somber and bitter forecasts of it's demise by many members of this blog. Pastor Sherman Allen's case will be handled by the courts. Our church may have some scandals but consider how large our international church is. We are an organization that has over 15,000 churches, that most of which are Bible-Believing, Bible-Teaching, and Bible-Living assemblies. We are proud of our heritage, we have made it for 100 years and we are still pushing. If I was sick and I needed to get a prayer through I would look for a member of the Church of God in Christ to pray for me. We have practiced the art of living Holy for 100 years now. These infractions that are alleged and even if they are true are not practiced by even a small minority of our churches. Modern Pentecost gets most of it's modus operandi from one organization and that organization is The Church of God in Christ.

Respectfully Yours,Pastor Stephen F. Smithwww.thesurehouse.com

Caring
Caring

Amazed,

Please do not respond, as I believe you won't. You would be wasting your time.

I'm glad to know that you will be off the site for a while. When you return, I trust that you will continue to comment to the intelligent as you seem to be.

This is probably the best way he can be recognized...Small church...Fishing for members! (smiles)

Pastor J
Pastor J

Dear Amazed:

In reply to your following response to my post:

"I'm a bit confused with your statement in post 22. The COGIC is not trying to grow churches right now? It would seem to me that winning souls and feeding those souls should be the mission of the COGIC. Don't you think?"

I was referring to the "Blog" that COGIC is not trying to use the "Blog" to grow churches right now.

Thank you for reading my post. I notice that sometime you are pro-COGIC and other time you are anti-COGIC, am I mistaken?

Are you one of the Allen's alleged victims?

Just a concerned pastor.

Pastor J.

Pastor J
Pastor J

Hi, Caring:

It seems like I got you converted after all; for I too was at Bishop Patterson's funeral and saw Sherman Allen and even spoke with him. I wish I had known who you are, and may be I was sitting next to you, for I would have been delighted to see the person I have won back to 1. Jesus 2. COGIC.

Smile...

Love you,

Pastor J

P.S. Now that you have a changed heart, I might take you in as the newest member of my congregation.

Amazed
Amazed

This is officially my last comment for a while:

I'm sorry to have referred to you as Jenny. It was completely an oversight. Sorry about that...

Be blessed...

Tired of COGIC Preachers
Tired of COGIC Preachers

Amazed,

Correction: Jimmy, not Jenny

Thanks for the update, and I too will probably drop off this site.

I understand what you are saying and I am not trying to come down hard on anybody except the one who comes across as a saint with a vulgar mouth.

I do not understand the malicious and spiteful talk of the people who claim to be or have been a part of your church. The Sherman Allen case is bad enough, then to read comments as Heat and others make you wonder if there is really a real preacher or saint in your organization. I thought there should be a difference between holy and unholy. Heat sounds like a rank sinner, giving advice to Christians.

So-be-it...I will just read the news and keep up with the Allen case that way. His comments have left a bitter taste in my mouth.

I am pulling for the victims in the Sherman Allen case.

Amazed
Amazed

Jenny, Jenny, Jenny:

Please do not be offended that Heat thought you were Caring. It's really okay. It's not a big deal. You're Jenny... Now we know. Do we care? No. But thanks for the heads-up.

And a word of advice... Don't come down so hard on people that are merely a product of the abusive organization that we have been effected by for generations. Many of us came up in this church and had no choice to leave until we had been heavily indoctrinated and mutilated. By the time we got a chance to leave, we were already deeply effected by the lack of teaching and wrong teaching. Yes, I thank God for COGIC, mainly because they introduced the power of the Holy Spirit to me. But their teachings were off base, sometimes mean, and really empty at times.

Truth twisted with error is perversion. This is what many of us got from our COGIC experiences. Not all of us... Because not all COGIC pastors are bad seeds. I know some COGIC pastors that are great men. I love them for representing God and holiness. But many of the preachers are at best a mess.

I think that it is time for me to leave this discussion for a while. The truth is that we really need to be praying for the church and for each other, rather than trying to see who can pop the other the hardest. Look at what Allen's mess has gotten us all involved in. Instead of us coming to this board, trying to offer constructive points, many of us have used this board as a place to slap, kick, and scratch. Oh yes, and get a good laugh... (I'm guilty as charged.)

I have to admit, I've been amused by some of the clawing. But that's because I am a lover of the written word. I also love dialogue and narrative reporting. But because I'm probably supposed to be grieving rather than laughing at some of the posts, I pray that God forgives me.

But at the end of the day this whole mess, whether it's Ted, Sherman, Kenneth, Jimmy, or so on, makes me sick at the stomach. As I said in a previous entry, I hate that we were forced to convene here at the Dallas Observer's website to talk about issues that we should have been able to talk about within the Body. But Jenny, we weren't allowed. Forgive us for displaying our wounds.

Just for the record: I don't dislike COGIC's no more than I do Baptist folks. I've just been more effected by my COGIC experience. I guess that's why many of my entries detail some of my experiences and insight.

I pray that God's peace, love, kindness, patience, and forgiveness wrap itself all around you, Allen, Kelly, caring, heat, Julie, everyone else on this board, and everyone that was allegedly abused by Allen. I pray the same for me.

Submitted with love and not angst,

Amazed(I hate I can't disclose my real name. I guess that's just the way it is.)

Tired of COGIC Preachers
Tired of COGIC Preachers

Heat,

My real name is Jimmy FYI, from Las Colinas Texas. Who are you? I do not know who Caring is and don't care.

I only read such heartbreaking comments from your month. I have gone back and read comments from some of you that claim to be either a part of the COGIC organization or consider yourself a member. It saddens my heart to hear how you people talk, air out dirty laundry on your brothers and sisters and feel good about it, laugh about it and talk about it.

A lot of the blogs are from preachers and/or men. Both the preachers and the men are to be the leaders of the church. Is this what your leaders teach you?

Get a Man's mouth Heat! A real man does not speak as you do. And if you consider yourself as a saint or preacher in the COGIC, it is evident that you are part of a wicked and uncontrolled organization.

Again I say you sound so bitter and full of hell.

Amazed
Amazed

Heat: Never mind. We all have a bit of information about these issues because of our experiences in the church. Many of us that choose to blog on this board are 3rd to 4th generation COGIC's. So, quite naturally, we would know things about the inner workings of COGIC that many don't know about. So, it was not fair of me to ask you about your sources.

Frankly, I'm saddened by all of this. I'm mostly sad that this public discourse didn't occur within the Body, rather than on an alternative newspaper's website.

This is the same way I felt when Kirk Franklin decided to go on Oprah and air out his stanky laundry. I felt that Oprah's show was an inappropriate platform. Sadly, the Church of God in Christ forced silence has pushed us to this board to say, of course, with anominity, things that we have wished to say for years and years. But we were taught to not say such things against men and women of God. And you dare not speak against the grand, and I mean grand Church of God in Christ. If you did, you were expected to experience the hell and fury that comes upon one who talks against God's chosen ones. You might look up and the prophet would have sicked a couple of shebears to gobble you up.

I'm thankful that we are talking about these issues. But who needs to be talking and reading these entries are the general board of the COGIC. What is being done? Why is Allen still able to hold his national position? He should definitely be placed on leave. What's that about? I know that he is not guilty until proven guilty. But whenever an official investigation is being done, it is most appropriate to place the one who is under investigation on leave.

Amazed
Amazed

I'm laughing! And I mean, I'm laughing out loud. Oh yes, I admit it. This is freaking hilarious! Thanks so much for giving me something to give me the giggles this afternoon. Some folks have happy hour, I have yall.

I know that some of our good brothers and sisters in the Lord probably frown upon me for finding these blog entries entertaining. Well, just pray for me. I'm a work undone. (smile)

Caring, why did you get so offended by Heat's response to Lady Speaker (poster 44) in his post 46? He clearly stated, "46.?Here are my personal thoughts in response to your questions:"

Everybody has a right to participate in critical dialogue regarding this subject. That's the key components in public discourse. This is why I love public communication, and why I really love blogging. It's a wonderful way to exchange ideas and opinions.

With that being said, it seems that there are some folks on here that think they own the crown for being able to state opinions, be sarcastic, and pop with words. I won't mention any screen names. I think those who are guilty know who they are.

Caring, since you have stated in another post that you are currently t apart of the body of Christ, why-why do you find the need to participate in this ping-pong game of blogging about COGIC matters. I think, and this is just my assessment based on the info that you selectively presented in your entries, that you are merely someone who is in a backslidden condition, but still has a high degree of interest in church/COGIC culture. Sadly, when one has a relationship with church culture, it is easy to stray. By your own admition, you don't have anythin to do with the church because of church folks.

I compell you, my brother, to fall in love with God and not the church. The church will absolutely disappoint you. But my God, He is a faithful, loving, friend, who is willing to love you when other folks think you are a mess. That's why I love the Lord. It's because He took time to love me, inspite of all my mess.

Heat: Would you like to share how you know so much about COGIC matters. I'm interested.

HEAT
HEAT

..Oh - 'A' for Effort, Cunning (post #49), but as always, your pathetic response bears no substance. Yes, I took out a few minutes to respond to your ignornace, but it's even funnier that you have spent MORE time publishing copies of ALL your posts on EVERY Bible Girl thread on the D.O.!

WTF?

LOLOLOL!

It's refreshing to know that you won't continue to tic-tac with me, mainly because you have been made irrelevant.

You hate ignorance? Irony at it's finest.

Best of luck.

Enough of you - let's refocus to what this blog is actually about.

Side note to readers: I never stated that I was a COGIC preacher or represented COGIC in any official capacity.

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